Why won't the Israelis give peace a chance? (1 Viewer)

[jujuman13]

An interesting and thoughtful article.

Link

Why won't the Israelis give peace a chance? - Comment - Times Online
Comments please.

 

[Voidwar]

That article was such a sad batch of lefty :spin: !

From the article : Israel's conditions to talks with Syria.

Syria must expel Hamas’s leadership. Syria must cut its ties with Hezbollah. Syria must stop harassing our US allies in Iraq. Syria must end its alliance with Iran. Syria must desist from its military build-up on the Golan front.

Every single one should be insisted upon. Israel does give peace a chance, and Syria has no intent to meet any of those peaceful conditions.

To any mature adult who knows what Hamas and Hezbollah are, and has been watching the news from Tehran, all of these conditions are absolutely necessary, and should be met before ANYONE gives ANY credence to Syria's false offer.

 

[jujuman13]

Perhaps the first half step towards something meaningful?
Quote
(Israelis release Palestinian cash)
Link
BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Israelis release Palestinian cash

 

[jujuman13]

I personally would suggest meetings without any pre-conditions by either side in these disputes.
Dialogue is only one of two ways that some form of justice and peace could be brought to Israel and the Mid east.
The other way is death.
With these two possibilities, which one would you suggest they take.
With regard to the article, yes perhaps it is spin, but it seems to be spin on both points of view.

 

[Voidwar]

I think Israel should kill every single member of Hamas and Hezbollah, and their wives, mothers, non-procreative associates, and children. Leave none alive to seek vengeance, and the feud can die.

Spin on both ?
Go read the Hamas Charter.
MidEast Web - Hamas Charter

Go read the Hezbollah Manifesto.

We see in Israel the vanguard of the United States in our Islamic world. It is the hated enemy that must be fought until the hated ones get what they deserve. This enemy is the greatest danger to our future generations and to the destiny of our lands, particularly as it glorifies the ideas of settlement and expansion, initiated in Palestine, and yearning outward to the extension of the Great Israel, from the Euphrates to the Nile.

Our primary assumption in our fight against Israel states that the Zionist entity is aggressive from its inception, and built on lands wrested from their owners, at the expense of the rights of the Muslim people. Therefore our struggle will end only when this entity is obliterated. We recognize no treaty with it, no cease fire, and no peace agreements, whether separate or consolidated.

We vigorously condemn all plans for negotiation with Israel, and regard all negotiators as enemies, for the reason that such negotiation is nothing but the recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist occupation of Palestine. Therefore we oppose and reject the Camp David Agreements, the proposals of King Fahd, the Fez and Reagan plan, Brezhnev's and the French-Egyptian proposals, and all other programs that include the recognition (even the implied recognition) of the Zionist entity.

These groups are committed to unending war with Israel in their founding documents. Any entity harboring said groups or the leaders thereof, cannot be sincere about peace with Israel.

 

[Tashah]

Moderator's Warning:

Moved to a more appropriate forum

 

[The face of Jacob]

That article was such a sad batch of lefty :spin: !

From the article : Israel's conditions to talks with Syria.

Syria must expel Hamas’s leadership. Syria must cut its ties with Hezbollah. Syria must stop harassing our US allies in Iraq. Syria must end its alliance with Iran. Syria must desist from its military build-up on the Golan front.

Every single one should be insisted upon. Israel does give peace a chance, and Syria has no intent to meet any of those peaceful conditions.

To any mature adult who knows what Hamas and Hezbollah are, and has been watching the news from Tehran, all of these conditions are absolutely necessary, and should be met before ANYONE gives ANY credence to Syria's false offer.

Every word of yours is true!

2 senators slam Baker-Hamilton report

A Congressional delegation headed by US Senators John McCain, a Republican from Arizona, and Joe Lieberman, an independent from Connecticut, told Prime Minister Ehud Olmert on Monday that they are squarely against the Baker-Hamilton report calling for the US to engage in dialogue with Iran and Syria, according to officials present at the meeting. Full article inside

Mossad Chief Meir Dagan said Monday in his briefing of the Knesset Defense and Foreign Affairs Committee, "There is no indication at the moment of actualization of Syrian positions or that the country is moving toward peace."

According to him, Syria is arming itself and Hizbullah at a rapid pace, is trying to topple Siniora's government, and is undermining American presence in Iraq. Full article inside

Olmert: No negotiations with Syria any time soon

For first time since Baker-Hamilton report was issued, PM refers to its conclusions, says that to the best of his knowledge Bush objects to Israeli withdrawal from Golan Heights; states that in light of Syria's 'subversive actions,' there's not much hope for talks in near future Full article inside

On Syria, Peres insinuated that Damascus is only interested in opening negotiations with Israel in order to open doors with the US without having to pay the price of cleaning out the terror headquarters in Damascus, ending aid of Hizbullah, and holding direct talks with Israel. Full article inside

 

[Billo_Really]

Screw the Mossad! Their nothing more than Israeli terrorists. And if your not willing to even talk about your differences, then the problem is with you.

Deal with it!

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by voidwar:
I think Israel should kill every single member of Hamas and Hezbollah, and their wives, mothers, non-procreative associates, and children. Leave none alive to seek vengeance, and the feud can die.

Do you get these thoughts often?

 

[Vader]

Screw the Mossad! Their nothing more than Israeli terrorists. And if your not willing to even talk about your differences, then the problem is with you.

Deal with it!

The Mossad are Israel's equivelent of the CIA. They are not terrorists; however, they are, like the CIA, responsible for some horrible deeds.

 

[Voidwar]

Do you get these thoughts often?

It is a starkly sober opinion. Your attempt to lampoon it comes from fear of its ruthless rationality.

There is no reason for Israel to talk with Syria due to their collusion with terrorist organizations, despite your sophmoric and ignorant attempt to re-assert that Israel is at fault.

 

[Red_Dave]

That article was such a sad batch of lefty :spin: !

From the article : Israel's conditions to talks with Syria.

Syria must expel Hamas’s leadership. Syria must cut its ties with Hezbollah. Syria must stop harassing our US allies in Iraq. Syria must end its alliance with Iran. Syria must desist from its military build-up on the Golan front.

Every single one should be insisted upon. Israel does give peace a chance, and Syria has no intent to meet any of those peaceful conditions.

To any mature adult who knows what Hamas and Hezbollah are, and has been watching the news from Tehran, all of these conditions are absolutely necessary, and should be met before ANYONE gives ANY credence to Syria's false offer.

Leftist Spin? Do you know who ownes the Times?

 

[Voidwar]

Leftist Spin? Do you know who ownes the Times?

Not relevant. The author of the article is not the owner of the paper I would presume, so who cares ? The content of the article was, as I stated, a sad batch of lefty spin.

 

[Red_Dave]

Not relevant. The author of the article is not the owner of the paper I would presume, so who cares ? The content of the article was, as I stated, a sad batch of lefty spin.

I just thought it was ironic given the Times is the print equivalent of Fox News and owned by the same person:roll:

 

[Voidwar]

I just thought it was ironic given the Times is the print equivalent of Fox News and owned by the same person:roll:

:Oopsie :caution: t :naughty

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by Voidwar
It is a starkly sober opinion.

Of all the words that I could possibly be use to describe your opinion, "sober" was not one of them.

Originally Posted by Voidwar
Your attempt to lampoon it comes from fear of its ruthless rationality.

Trust me when I say that there is nothing about you, or your country, that I fear. But I do agree you are "ruthless", unfortunately, it has nothing to do with "rationality".

Originally Posted by Voidwar
There is no reason for Israel to talk with Syria due to their collusion with terrorist organizations, despite your sophmoric and ignorant attempt to re-assert that Israel is at fault.

Not ever to sit across from a table and ask them why do they support terrorist organizations? You support terrorist organizations. What do you think the Mossad are? That is a state-sponsered, Israeli terrorist organization. In light of that, I have just one more question for you,

"Are you the pot, or the kettle?"

 

[Voidwar]

so·ber (sbr)
adj. so·ber·er, so·ber·est
1. Habitually abstemious in the use of alcoholic liquors or drugs; temperate.
2. Not intoxicated or affected by the use of drugs.
3. Plain or subdued: sober attire.
4. Devoid of frivolity, excess, exaggeration, or speculative imagination; straightforward: gave a sober assessment of the situation.
5. Marked by seriousness, gravity, or solemnity of conduct or character. See Synonyms at serious.
6. Marked by circumspection and self-restraint.

If you have access to a collection of old Reader's Digests, I would suggest checking out their monthly piece entitled "It Pays to Enrich your Word Power".

My use of sober was exactly accurate, as the course of action I suggested, could be taken to be exaggeration, and that was not at all my intent. To clarify, I used the term sober, in exactly the capacity described in (4) and (5) of the above definition.

You apparently misunderstood, as I did not claim you feared me or my ? Country ?. I explained why you tried to lampoon my post. You tried to lampoon it because you do not have the guts to admit that A, it can be done, B it should be done, and C it would actually end the feud.

As regards the rest, my previous posting destroys it utterly . . .

From the article : Israel's conditions to talks with Syria.

Syria must expel Hamas’s leadership. Syria must cut its ties with Hezbollah. Syria must stop harassing our US allies in Iraq. Syria must end its alliance with Iran. Syria must desist from its military build-up on the Golan front.

Every single one should be insisted upon. Israel does give peace a chance, and Syria has no intent to meet any of those peaceful conditions.

To any mature adult who knows what Hamas and Hezbollah are, and has been watching the news from Tehran, all of these conditions are absolutely necessary, and should be met before ANYONE gives ANY credence to Syria's false offer.

Even if you are intellectually dishonest enough to engage in your morally relativistic equating, there can be no denying that it is a complete waste of time to chat with people who have sworn you have no right to exist.

I'm thinking of renaming you Snare, because I thump you like a drum.

 

[Vader]

Of all the words that I could possibly be use to describe your opinion, "sober" was not one of them.

Trust me when I say that there is nothing about you, or your country, that I fear. But I do agree you are "ruthless", unfortunately, it has nothing to do with "rationality".

Not ever to sit across from a table and ask them why do they support terrorist organizations? You support terrorist organizations. What do you think the Mossad are? That is a state-sponsered, Israeli terrorist organization. In light of that, I have just one more question for you,

"Are you the pot, or the kettle?"

Billo,

You are very confused. You see the Mossad are NOT A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION. They are Israel's equivelent of the CIA. Please get that through your head.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Vader:
Billo,

You are very confused. You see the Mossad are NOT A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION. They are Israel's equivelent of the CIA. Please get that through your head.

So your saying conducting assassinations in other country's is not terrorism?

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by Voidwar
If you have access to a collection of old Reader's Digests, I would suggest checking out their monthly piece entitled "It Pays to Enrich your Word Power".

My use of sober was exactly accurate, as the course of action I suggested, could be taken to be exaggeration, and that was not at all my intent. To clarify, I used the term sober, in exactly the capacity described in (4) and (5) of the above definition.

I said that wasn't the word I would use. I didn't say I didn't know what it meant. So shove that english lesson RUYA!

Originally Posted by Voidwar
You apparently misunderstood, as I did not claim you feared me or my ? Country ?. I explained why you tried to lampoon my post. You tried to lampoon it because you do not have the guts to admit that A, it can be done, B it should be done, and C it would actually end the feud.

I wasn't intending to lampoon, that's just the way you choose to take it. Why? Possibly out of convenience. And what is "it"?

Originally Posted by Voidwar
As regards the rest, my previous posting destroys it utterly . . .

Quote:
From the article : Israel's conditions to talks with Syria.

Syria must expel Hamas’s leadership. Syria must cut its ties with Hezbollah. Syria must stop harassing our US allies in Iraq. Syria must end its alliance with Iran. Syria must desist from its military build-up on the Golan front.

Every single one should be insisted upon. Israel does give peace a chance, and Syria has no intent to meet any of those peaceful conditions.

To any mature adult who knows what Hamas and Hezbollah are, and has been watching the news from Tehran, all of these conditions are absolutely necessary, and should be met before ANYONE gives ANY credence to Syria's false offer.

Even if you are intellectually dishonest enough to engage in your morally relativistic equating, there can be no denying that it is a complete waste of time to chat with people who have sworn you have no right to exist.

I agree Syria must stop harassing US allies in Iraq. As for their ties to elected governments of sovereign nations, that's none of your god-damn business! Why don't you stop f_cking with people in other country's? Like this last war with Lebanon. Nobody talks about the fact that those 2 Israeli soldiers were kidnapped on LEBANESE SOIL!

Your part of the problem. Have the guts to admit that and deal with it. Because if you do, then, and only then, is it all up to Syria at that point. You clean your own house before you start talking about someone else's. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

Originally Posted by Voidwar
I'm thinking of renaming you Snare, because I thump you like a drum.

Actually, I've always considered myself more of a "top hat".

 

[Voidwar]

And what is "it"?

You want it all but you can't Have it.
Its in your face but you can't Grab it!
What! Is! It ! What is it ?

My response to this. . .

I personally would suggest meetings without any pre-conditions by either side in these disputes.
Dialogue is only one of two ways that some form of justice and peace could be brought to Israel and the Mid east.
The other way is death.
With these two possibilities, which one would you suggest they take.

which was . . .

I think Israel should kill every single member of Hamas and Hezbollah, and their wives, mothers, non-procreative associates, and children. Leave none alive to seek vengeance, and the feud can die.

I agree Syria must stop harassing US allies in Iraq.

How generous. :roll:

As for their ties to elected governments of sovereign nations, that's none of your god-damn business!

Whose ties, elected ??? and none of it is "MY" business as I am not a participant, but rather an observer / commentor.

Why don't you stop f_cking with people in other country's?

I run an international crank call center, I simply cannot comply. :roll:

Like this last war with Lebanon. Nobody talks about the fact that those 2 Israeli soldiers were kidnapped on LEBANESE SOIL!

Because that is NOT a fact, its an outright falsehood.

Your part of the problem. Have the guts to admit that and deal with it.

Again, I am not a participant, but rather an observer / commentor.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by Voidwar
You want it all but you can't Have it.
Its in your face but you can't Grab it!
What! Is! It ! What is it ?

My response to this. . .

which was . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voidwar
I think Israel should kill every single member of Hamas and Hezbollah, and their wives, mothers, non-procreative associates, and children. Leave none alive to seek vengeance, and the feud can die.

It takes a lot of hate in someone's heart to want to kill innocent women and children. They must of done some pretty bad things that would compel you to come to draw that conclusion. With that in mind, you can relate to the jihadists that flew planes into our buildings. Because you both have the same mindset.

Originally Posted by Voidwar
How generous.

Not really. There is no amount of generosity I would ever think of sending your way until you sh_t-canned all this hostility.

Originally Posted by Voidwar
Whose ties, elected ??? and none of it is "MY" business as I am not a participant, but rather an observer / commentor.

I run an international crank call center, I simply cannot comply.

WTF ever, tripper.

Originally Posted by Voidwar
Because that is NOT a fact, its an outright falsehood.

Prove it!

Originally Posted by Voidwar
Again, I am not a participant, but rather an observer / commentor.

See response above.

 

[Voidwar]

It takes a lot of hate in someone's heart to want to kill innocent women and children.

Those I mentioned are not innocent.
They are collaborators.
They are future replacements.
War involves killing, so grow up.

oh, and by the by . . . do your own homework next time, as you are either a liar, or woefully ignorant of current events.

BEIRUT, July 13 -- The Lebanese Shiite Muslim group Hezbollah infiltrated the Israeli border Wednesday in a brazen raid, capturing two Israeli soldiers,

Hezbollah Raid Opens 2nd Front for Israel

JERUSALEM (CNN) -- The Israeli Cabinet authorized "severe and harsh" retaliation on Lebanon after Hezbollah guerillas kidnapped two soldiers and killed three others in a cross-border raid Wednesday.

CNN.com - Israel authorizes 'severe' response to abductions - Jul 12, 2006

Hezbollah seizes Israel soldiers

Israel says it is planning to retaliate against Lebanon
Lebanese guerrillas have captured two Israeli soldiers in a cross-border raid,

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Hezbollah seizes Israel soldiers

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by Voidwar
Those I mentioned are not innocent.
They are collaborators.
They are future replacements.
War involves killing, so grow up.

You said this...

Originally Posted by Voidwar
I think Israel should kill every single member of Hamas and Hezbollah, and their wives, mothers, non-procreative associates, and children. Leave none alive to seek vengeance, and the feud can die.

...so you are saying their children are guilty as well? Because if you say they are, then in all sincerity, you need to GFY! I mean that!

Originally Posted by Voidwar
oh, and by the by . . . do your own homework next time, as you are either a liar, or woefully ignorant of current events.

It's not ignorance I'm "woeful" of...

Kidnapped in Israel or Captured in Lebanon? Official justification for Israel's invasion on thin ice
by Joshua Frank

As Lebanon continues to be pounded by Israeli bombs and munitions, the justification for Israel's invasion is treading on very thin ice. It has become general knowledge that it was Hezbollah guerillas that first kidnapped two IDF soldiers inside Israel on July 12, prompting an immediate and violent response from the Israeli government, which insists it is acting in the interest of national defense. Israeli forces have gone on to kill over 370 innocent Lebanese civilians (compared to 34 killed on Israel's side) while displacing hundreds of thousands more. But numerous reports from international and independent media, as well as the Associated Press, raise questions about Israel's official version of the events that sparked the conflict two weeks ago.

The original story, as most media tell it, goes something like this: Hezbollah attacked an Israeli border patrol station, killing six and taking two soldiers hostage. The incident happened on the Lebanese/Israel border in Israeli territory. The alternate version, as explained by several news outlets, tells a bit of a different tale: These sources contend that Israel sent a commando force into southern Lebanon and was subsequently attacked by Hezbollah near the village of Aitaa al-Chaab, well inside Lebanon's southern territory. It was at this point that an Israel tank was struck by Hezbollah fighters, which resulted in the capture of two Israeli soldiers and the death of six.

As the AFP reported, "According to the Lebanese police force, the two Israeli soldiers were captured in Lebanese territory, in the area of Aitaa al-Chaab, near to the border with Israel, where an Israeli unit had penetrated in middle of morning." And the French news site Voltaire Network reiterated the same account on June 18, "In a deliberated way, [Israel] sent a commando in the Lebanese back-country to Aitaa al-Chaab. It was attacked by Hezbollah, taking two prisoners."

The Associated Press departed from the official version as well. "The militant group Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes Wednesday across the border in southern Lebanon, prompting a swift reaction from Israel, which sent ground forces into its neighbor to look for them," reported Joseph Panossian for AP on July 12. "The forces were trying to keep the soldiers' captors from moving them deeper into Lebanon, Israeli government officials said on condition of anonymity."

Are they all wrong?

Stop being part of the problem and start being part of the solution.

 

[Vader]

So your saying conducting assassinations in other country's is not terrorism?

I'm saying you're confused as to what terrorism is. The CIA has done far worse than simple assassinations and I don't here you whining about them.

:doh