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Why Turkey will never join EU?

Alfons

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Because nobody of Europeans want Turkey in EU.:2wave:

Reason:

1. Too Muslim
2. Too poor
3. Too bad "economy".
4. Too nationalistic
5. Too much problems with human rights.
6. Too much unemployment Turks in EU ( more as 50 % ) who are extremely successful in exploiting of
all kinds of generosity western social states.
7. Too much turks Mosques in EU ( more as 90 % of those was erected with tax money). For
comparison in Turkey itself was no one new church erected in the last 500 years.
 

bub

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Because nobody of Europeans want Turkey in EU.:2wave:

Reason:

1. Too Muslim
2. Too poor
3. Too bad "economy".
4. Too nationalistic
5. Too much problems with human rights.
6. Too much unemployment Turks in EU ( more as 50 % ) who are extremely successful in exploiting of
all kinds of generosity western social states.
7. Too much turks Mosques in EU ( more as 90 % of those was erected with tax money). For
comparison in Turkey itself was no one new church erected in the last 500 years.
points 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 may change quickly.

70 years ago, Germany also had some problems with human rights, Bulgaria is not much richer than Turkey and the nationalism may evolve.
 

Apocalypse

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points 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 may change quickly.

70 years ago, Germany also had some problems with human rights, Bulgaria is not much richer than Turkey and the nationalism may evolve.
70 years is quickly by what time standards exactly? :2razz:
 

Wiseone

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Because nobody of Europeans want Turkey in EU.:2wave:

Reason:

1. Too Muslim
2. Too poor
3. Too bad "economy".
4. Too nationalistic
5. Too much problems with human rights.
6. Too much unemployment Turks in EU ( more as 50 % ) who are extremely successful in exploiting of
all kinds of generosity western social states.
7. Too much turks Mosques in EU ( more as 90 % of those was erected with tax money). For
comparison in Turkey itself was no one new church erected in the last 500 years.
8. Too much bad english
 

bub

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70 years is quickly by what time standards exactly? :2razz:
Actually it took only a few years for (West) Germany to change from a nationalist, racist and dictatorial regime to a liberal democracy
 

Civil1z@tion

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Turkey's unemployment is bad but EU members Spain and Latvia both have worse (source). Turkey's economy is in bad shape right now, but so is most of Europe's and they're not far behind Romania in terms of per capita GDP. The Islam thing is a point the far right and a few more moderate conservatives harp on and it may be one factor in the delay but I'm not yet convinced that will kill Turkey's candidacy. The Human Rights issues are more important and Turkey is going to need to do better there regarding the Kurds and Turkey has a number of other issues that will delay them for the foreseeable future, but nonetheless they have been making steady if slow progress towards ascension. They finally got to the point of opening negotiations in 2004 so its probably just a matter of time before they get in (probably a long time yet but it will probably happen).
 

Alfons

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points 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 may change quickly.

70 years ago, Germany also had some problems with human rights, Bulgaria is not much richer than Turkey and the nationalism may evolve.
Bulgaria and Germany are still Christian countries, do not forget this please.
 

Alfons

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Actually it took only a few years for (West) Germany to change from a nationalist, racist and dictatorial regime to a liberal democracy
A Muslim nation will stay always muslim, it will be changed nothing, moreover after gaining of majority in Europa Muslims will persecute the rest of Christians untill all of them either be killed or embrace the Religion of Peace and Tolerance.
 

Alfons

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Turkey's unemployment is bad but EU members Spain and Latvia both have worse (source). Turkey's economy is in bad shape right now, but so is most of Europe's and they're not far behind Romania in terms of per capita GDP. The Islam thing is a point the far right and a few more moderate conservatives harp on and it may be one factor in the delay but I'm not yet convinced that will kill Turkey's candidacy. The Human Rights issues are more important and Turkey is going to need to do better there regarding the Kurds and Turkey has a number of other issues that will delay them for the foreseeable future, but nonetheless they have been making steady if slow progress towards ascension. They finally got to the point of opening negotiations in 2004 so its probably just a matter of time before they get in (probably a long time yet but it will probably happen).

Europa do not need a Muslim country, because Muslims hate Christians and have huge birth rates.

Islam: Making a True Difference in the World - One Body at a Time

YouTube - TURKEY NO EUROPE !
 

Infinite Chaos

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Because nobody of Europeans want Turkey in EU --
Sarkozy and Merkel probably but other European Govts have wanted Turkey in - and there's certainly been a big behind the scenes push by the US.

I personally think the EU grew too fast and the concept moved much faster and the community expanded too fast but Turkey certainly should have joined way before some of the Eastern European countries that have joined.

Recent events in the Mediterranean may start to shift Turkish eyes towards Syria and Iran - that's something that will see the US push harder for Turkish inclusion in the EU.
 
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MetalGear

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Because nobody of Europeans want Turkey in EU.:2wave:
The economy is set to surpass most Southern European nations, whilst Greece blunders behind. Turkey is set to become a regional energy hub. Ironic how you prefer to keep Turkey out when the lying cheating bastard Greeks are throwing billions of German Euro's down the well. Now THATS exploiting generosity. The unemployment of Turks in Europe has nothing to do with Turkey but the failings of local governments. I'm sorry, but please expand on your idea of Turkey being "nationalist". That is such an old and outdated excuse. If they are nationalist, provide me recent sources proving this? Because the Turkish nationalist party is doing the worst it has ever done. Maybe central European Turks are, but not the natives. Sorry pal, but the most un-nationalist party is currently ruling Turkey.
What the hell are "Turk" mosques?
 

MetalGear

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I thought relations between Greece and Turkey had improved recently?
I don't know its not why i'm saying it though. Im saying that because they have squandered billions of EU money and its left Britons footing a bill its uncertain will be paid back. The fundamental rules of the EU, the restriction of the intervention of government bailouts, has been violated, and our own economic recovery put at risk. The rewarding of irresponsibility by our EU leaders, to be quiet frank, does nothing but infuriate me. If we had kicked them out of EMU we could have minimized the damage by restricting the amount there banks are exposed to the rest of us. That would likely have led to an instant default, but that's not our problem. The IMF would have stepped in and provided a lifeline like they did with Russia in the 90's, and a few years down the line all would be well with Greece.
 

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This entire thread has been created as an excuse for the OP to express his religious hatred, although, given his poor grip on the English language, 'express' refers to intention rather than achievement.

Turkey is living a rather positive period in its history at present. The economy, whilst not exactly booming, is certainly not suffering the agonies of its Mediterranean neighbours. Unemployment is high but stable, government debt is not spiralling, and its international relations are being conducted in a way that much of the World can admire, especially its close cooperation with Latin America and its genuine efforts to diffuse the Iran nuclear issue.

The fact is that many opinion polls are now showing that Turks have become tired of courting the EU and have shifted their focus onto forging wider, warmer relations with their immediate neighbours to the east and to the wider global community of emerging nations. Good luck to them. i wouldn't want to become a member of a club that made me jump through hoops to join that no one else has had to jump through. It will be the EU's greater loss both economically (Turkey is a HUGE market for EU goods) and diplomatically, certainly limiting its relevance to any Middle Eastern issues.

Sure, many Turks are quite nationalistic, but no more so than the average DP poster, and less so than the average American, Israeli, Scot, Ukrainian or Greek, I would argue. As has already been pointed out, their government is certainly NOT Nationalist. I like Turkey and Turks, for all their faults and I think that they will prosper increasingly irrespective of whether or not they join the EU.
 

MetalGear

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This entire thread has been created as an excuse for the OP to express his religious hatred, although, given his poor grip on the English language, 'express' refers to intention rather than achievement.

Turkey is living a rather positive period in its history at present. The economy, whilst not exactly booming, is certainly not suffering the agonies of its Mediterranean neighbours. Unemployment is high but stable, government debt is not spiralling, and its international relations are being conducted in a way that much of the World can admire, especially its close cooperation with Latin America and its genuine efforts to diffuse the Iran nuclear issue.

The fact is that many opinion polls are now showing that Turks have become tired of courting the EU and have shifted their focus onto forging wider, warmer relations with their immediate neighbours to the east and to the wider global community of emerging nations. Good luck to them. i wouldn't want to become a member of a club that made me jump through hoops to join that no one else has had to jump through. It will be the EU's greater loss both economically (Turkey is a HUGE market for EU goods) and diplomatically, certainly limiting its relevance to any Middle Eastern issues.

Sure, many Turks are quite nationalistic, but no more so than the average DP poster, and less so than the average American, Israeli, Scot, Ukrainian or Greek, I would argue. As has already been pointed out, their government is certainly NOT Nationalist. I like Turkey and Turks, for all their faults and I think that they will prosper increasingly irrespective of whether or not they join the EU.
Applause to you my friend. Nothing better than a person who speaks sense.
 

Civil1z@tion

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Europa do not need a Muslim country, because Muslims hate Christians and have huge birth rates.
That's one theory. Another is that Muslims and Christians have been living together well in Europe for decades. Sure some incidents crop up and occasionally you get a real problem like Bosnia (though to be fair Christians were having a real good time killing each other as well) but the overall effect of Muslims and Christians living together have been positive. Beyond that, a large portion of Europeans are non-Christians (most commonly atheists or agnostics) and religion plays little part in the lives of the vast majority of Europeans so given that, a replay of the crusades in Europe looks even less likely.
 

Tashah

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I'm just curious. If Turkey has a successful EU-like domestic economy, why do so many Turks look for employment opportunities outside of Turkey? Is unemployment high? Are wages suppressed? High taxation? What causes this exodus of Turkish workers?
 

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Turkey has a good economy for a developing country. But of course, any developing country is going to have a less attractive economy than any developed country. Unemployment is higher in Turkey than the EU average and wages are lower, but this is something that's similar to many of the Eastern European countries in the EU (which also tend to have a lot of people move to the richer parts of the EU, with the Poles being the most notable group doing this).
 

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I'm just curious. If Turkey has a successful EU-like domestic economy, why do so many Turks look for employment opportunities outside of Turkey? Is unemployment high? Are wages suppressed? High taxation? What causes this exodus of Turkish workers?
It has an economy that is not in such dire straits as many others, I suppose that is some degree of success in these times, but it hadn't been terribly well managed for decades prior to the last. Like many, many poorer European countries, in the post-war decades a lot of Turks looked north and migrated for work, especially from the very poorest regions of the east of the country. The same was the case in Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece and the Balkans and, more latterly, in Poland, Rumania, Bulgaria et al. I live in a village of 800 souls whose population in 1960 was 5,000. The poor have always had to, to quote a British politician Norman Tebbit, get on their bikes and go look for work wherever they can find it. Poverty, absolute or relative, has always been the driver of migration.

I certainly wasn't trying to paint Turkey as some kind of economic paradise, very far from it. I was just observing that things there are not that bad at present, something you can't say for many of its neighbours.
 

MetalGear

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I'm just curious. If Turkey has a successful EU-like domestic economy, why do so many Turks look for employment opportunities outside of Turkey? Is unemployment high? Are wages suppressed? High taxation? What causes this exodus of Turkish workers?
Same reason the Poles have left in hordes i suppose! But what doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever is.....why the hell do Turks go to Bulgaria for work? Its a transition economy, wages are no better there, everything is cheap as chips and i hear work opportunities are no better, but i could be wrong.
 

PeteEU

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I'm just curious. If Turkey has a successful EU-like domestic economy, why do so many Turks look for employment opportunities outside of Turkey? Is unemployment high? Are wages suppressed? High taxation? What causes this exodus of Turkish workers?
It does not have an EU-like domestic economy, especially a western EU like. It is a developing economy with many problems.

Turkey has a massive population problem with a very young relative population demanding jobs vs an economy that has a huge income inequality that is larger than the US's (which is the highest in the western world). This in turn means that the economy cant sustain a very large domestic consumption like in western Europe and in the US, which means in turn there are no jobs to be had... an evil cycle that is hard to get out off in the short term.

On top of that the structural corruption in the country is relative high, which in turn means less business wish to invest in the country due to the risk. Corruption in government and business is ripe and one of the biggest complaints my Turkish friends have. This in turn leads to the next problem.. political instability.

When you have political parties that are religious vs nationalistic then you have a class warfare going on in many ways. The religious parties are often voted on by the poorest part of the population, where as the more nationalistic and "regular" come from the more well off and educated part. And considering the income inequality issues, then the religious parties have a huge basis to get elected on and that is exactly what has happened. This in turn turns off Europeans even more.

This all in turn means Turks go abroad for work and have done so since the 1960s+. However in the early days it was the most uneducated and poverty stricken that moved abroad and that caused massive social problems in the countries they went too, problems which continue to day in the 1st and 2nd generation of these immigrants. And these immigrants have hurt the chances of the new wave that wants to come to Europe, many who are quite well educated and would under normal circumstances be welcomed.

So even IF Turkey joined the EU, I highly doubt that Turks would be welcome on the job market in a huge portion of the EU because of past experience.
 

MetalGear

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It does not have an EU-like domestic economy, especially a western EU like. It is a developing economy with many problems.
Are all developing nations not marred with problems? I'd say Bulgaria has much less potential than Turkey in the long term, strategic energy advantages aside. The government of Bulgaria is ruling a transitional market economy, and the state of affairs there hardly benefit the EU in any measurable way. I'd say Turkey has a lot less problems than the likes of Greece and other Balkan countries who we're rushed into the union. There is no more a conflict of right and left in Greece than there is a conflict of right and left in Turkey. Hell, id rather be fighting the likes of religious zealots than Greek communist zealots. The purpose of the EU is to embark on a road of market integration and eventually a system which gives Europe a unified stance on international affairs; a federal European republic. This might not be official procedure; "Van Rompuy" might not have declared this, but this is the direction in which we are headed. Therefore with the integration of markets comes the integration of cultural barriers in a way which best suits European interests. We will not create a union for the purpose of making a strong Europe without a geographical region which will allow us to exert stability and influence in a way which will also secure our energy security. Russia is clearly not a reliable partner. I dont ever remember the Ceyhan Oil Pipeline giving us headaches and the same will be true for North Stream. An unstable Middle East has caused instabilities in Europe; illegal immigration, Asylum seekers, flow of drugs and huge trafficking through Turkey and Greece. If we are going to grab Europe, might as well do it by the balls.
 
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cpwill

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points 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 may change quickly.

70 years ago, Germany also had some problems with human rights, Bulgaria is not much richer than Turkey and the nationalism may evolve.
unlikely; Turkey in recent years has become more nationalistic and belligerent. Currently forces in Turkey's government are pursuing mutually exclusive goals; the Secularists, who are strongest in the military, are attempting to pull Turkey in an EU-style direction, and the governing party (with some strong support from the people) want to reestabih Turkey in its 'rightful' role as leader of the Muslim world.
 
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