Why Trump will be forced to step down before his term ends

[OscarLevant]

Okay, this is just a prediction. I think predictions are fun. I could be wrong, of course. Nevertheless, let's predict, just for the helluvit.

Now, we don't yet have the Mueller report, so I'm making an assumption that
there is in the Mueller report sufficient evidence to indict Trump, so they approach him that he will be indicted after he leaves office ( either in 2020 or after the second term if he wins ) which won't conflict with current DOJ policy.

He'll have to make the decision before 2020 BECAUSE he will realize that they only way
to avoid indictment is to step down, and get a gentleman's agreement from Pence to pardon him
as soon as he takes office ( but I think Mueller has figured a way around this, not sure, though ) but this will be done very quietly, no one will know ( he thinks ) so it won't be a quid pro quo, which would make it illegal ( afaik) , so the president will be forced to step down just before the election.

If he waits, and assumes he will win a second term, it's risky because he might not win, and then Pence would never be president to pardon him. I doubt the Prez is going to risk it. He'll bail.

Note, SDNY already has enough to indict Trump on, as co - conspirator in the Cohen case.

Should the Mueller report reveal some indictable/impeachable stuff, I believe this will be the final play, right out of the Nixon playbook.

Also, I've noticed a lot of talk lately, it's buzzing around dem corridors around the beltway that the prez is, indeed, indictable, that the policy ultimately came from an earlier AG's memo ( I think it was Dixon ) where the unindictability of the prez was more of an anecdotal comment, and was never meant to be the final word on it. The current policy is based entirely from this weak memo.

Moreover,


The Constitution of the United States so states, in Article 1, section 3, clause 7 :

Judgement in cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than from removal from Office, and
disqualification to hold and to enjoy any office of Honor,Trust or Profit under the United States; but the party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgement and Punishment according to law

Does that mean the president can be indicted? It says "the party". Is this the president?

I see, therefore, foresee a serious challenge from the left on this.

Pass the popcorn

 

[rocket88]

Okay, this is just a prediction. I think predictions are fun. I could be wrong, of course. Nevertheless, let's predict, just for the helluvit.

Now, we don't yet have the Mueller report, so I'm making an assumption that
there is in the Mueller report sufficient evidence to indict Trump, so they approach him that he will be indicted after he leaves office ( either in 2020 or after the second term if he wins ) which won't conflict with current DOJ policy.

He'll have to make the decision before 2020 BECAUSE he will realize that they only way
to avoid indictment is to step down, and get a gentleman's agreement from Pence to pardon him
as soon as he takes office ( but I think Mueller has figured a way around this, not sure, though ) but this will be done very quietly, no one will know ( he thinks ) so it won't be a quid pro quo, which would make it illegal ( afaik) , so the president will be forced to step down just before the election.

If he waits, and assumes he will win a second term, it's risky because he might not win, and then Pence would never be president to pardon him. I doubt the Prez is going to risk it. He'll bail.

Note, SDNY already has enough to indict Trump on, as co - conspirator in the Cohen case.

Should the Mueller report reveal some indictable/impeachable stuff, I believe this will be the final play, right out of the Nixon playbook.

Also, I've noticed a lot of talk lately, it's buzzing around dem corridors around the beltway that the prez is, indeed, indictable, that the policy ultimately came from an earlier AG's memo ( I think it was Dixon ) where the unindictability of the prez was more of an anecdotal comment, and was never meant to be the final word on it. The current policy is based entirely from this weak memo.

Moreover,


The Constitution of the United States so states, in Article 1, section 3, clause 7 :


Does that mean the president can be indicted? It says "the party". Is this the president?

I see, therefore, foresee a serious challenge from the left on this.

Pass the popcorn

He'll get away with anything. Half the country right now wants him to rule as our King, with power passing to Ivanka if he ever dies.

 

[justabubba]

what you are predicting is that pence will pull a gerald ford and pardon president tRump for all crimes known and unknown as the benefit for resigning from the white house
ford did this in the name of avoiding national chaos; it could work again

 

[NeverTrump]

Okay, this is just a prediction. I think predictions are fun. I could be wrong, of course. Nevertheless, let's predict, just for the helluvit.

Now, we don't yet have the Mueller report, so I'm making an assumption that
there is in the Mueller report sufficient evidence to indict Trump, so they approach him that he will be indicted after he leaves office ( either in 2020 or after the second term if he wins ) which won't conflict with current DOJ policy.

He'll have to make the decision before 2020 BECAUSE he will realize that they only way
to avoid indictment is to step down, and get a gentleman's agreement from Pence to pardon him
as soon as he takes office ( but I think Mueller has figured a way around this, not sure, though ) but this will be done very quietly, no one will know ( he thinks ) so it won't be a quid pro quo, which would make it illegal ( afaik) , so the president will be forced to step down just before the election.

If he waits, and assumes he will win a second term, it's risky because he might not win, and then Pence would never be president to pardon him. I doubt the Prez is going to risk it. He'll bail.

Note, SDNY already has enough to indict Trump on, as co - conspirator in the Cohen case.

Should the Mueller report reveal some indictable/impeachable stuff, I believe this will be the final play, right out of the Nixon playbook.

Also, I've noticed a lot of talk lately, it's buzzing around dem corridors around the beltway that the prez is, indeed, indictable, that the policy ultimately came from an earlier AG's memo ( I think it was Dixon ) where the unindictability of the prez was more of an anecdotal comment, and was never meant to be the final word on it. The current policy is based entirely from this weak memo.

Moreover,


The Constitution of the United States so states, in Article 1, section 3, clause 7 :


Does that mean the president can be indicted? It says "the party". Is this the president?

I see, therefore, foresee a serious challenge from the left on this.

Pass the popcorn

The most likely scenario that I want to see played out is that Mueller releases the report. It's not enough to convince the GOP. They stick with him b/c they are all complicit. Trump loses the 2020 election by a landslide. Such bad numbers that even he has to admit defeat, then the NY, NJ, Florida, and DC authorities jump on him, his family, and any connections not connected to the Mueller investigation. Pence is a better choice than Trump, but I do not want him as President just so he can pardon Trump.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

You are correct that the rule against indicting a sitting President is not a law, just an internal rule that can easily be changed.

But I disagree with your prediction. I predict there will be some fallout from whatever Mueller reveals but Trump will finish out his term, run for reelection, and lose. I don't think New York is going to make any deals with Trump to leave office in exchange for leniency unless he wins a second term, which I doubt.

 

[csense]

It’s really very simple.

Only Congress can remove a sitting President. Since a person who is indicted is also subject to arrest, it follows that a sitting President can not be indicted.

 

[Grokmaster]

You are correct that the rule against indicting a sitting President is not a law, just an internal rule that can easily be changed.

But I disagree with your prediction. I predict there will be some fallout from whatever Mueller reveals but Trump will finish out his term, run for reelection, and lose. I don't think New York is going to make any deals with Trump to leave office in exchange for leniency unless he wins a second term, which I doubt.

WRONG. The Constitution is VERY SPECIFIC about how a POTUS can be removed...and an "indictment" from UNELECTED BUREAUCRATS is not one, regardless of leftist "pipe dreams".

If he is guilty of an indictable offense...IMPEACH HIM.


It takes the ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES of the People, to remove an ELECTED POTUS.

That is not an accident...our Founders were MUCH WISER than todays' frothy-mouthed left....

 

[joko104]

Okay, this is just a prediction. I think predictions are fun. I could be wrong, of course. Nevertheless, let's predict, just for the helluvit.

Now, we don't yet have the Mueller report, so I'm making an assumption that
there is in the Mueller report sufficient evidence to indict Trump, so they approach him that he will be indicted after he leaves office ( either in 2020 or after the second term if he wins ) which won't conflict with current DOJ policy.

He'll have to make the decision before 2020 BECAUSE he will realize that they only way
to avoid indictment is to step down, and get a gentleman's agreement from Pence to pardon him
as soon as he takes office ( but I think Mueller has figured a way around this, not sure, though ) but this will be done very quietly, no one will know ( he thinks ) so it won't be a quid pro quo, which would make it illegal ( afaik) , so the president will be forced to step down just before the election.

If he waits, and assumes he will win a second term, it's risky because he might not win, and then Pence would never be president to pardon him. I doubt the Prez is going to risk it. He'll bail.

Note, SDNY already has enough to indict Trump on, as co - conspirator in the Cohen case.

Should the Mueller report reveal some indictable/impeachable stuff, I believe this will be the final play, right out of the Nixon playbook.

Also, I've noticed a lot of talk lately, it's buzzing around dem corridors around the beltway that the prez is, indeed, indictable, that the policy ultimately came from an earlier AG's memo ( I think it was Dixon ) where the unindictability of the prez was more of an anecdotal comment, and was never meant to be the final word on it. The current policy is based entirely from this weak memo.

Moreover,


The Constitution of the United States so states, in Article 1, section 3, clause 7 :


Does that mean the president can be indicted? It says "the party". Is this the president?

I see, therefore, foresee a serious challenge from the left on this.

Pass the popcorn

Clinton faced the identical situation and it all turned out a-ok for him.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

WRONG. The Constitution is VERY SPECIFIC about how a POTUS can be removed...and an "indictment" from UNELECTED BUREAUCRATS is not one, regardless of leftist "pipe dreams".

If he is guilty of an indictable offense...IMPEACH HIM.


It takes the ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES of the People, to remove an ELECTED POTUS.

That is not an accident...our Founders were MUCH WISER than todays' frothy-mouthed left....

I agree that indictment without impeachment can't remove a President from office. But that doesn't mean he can't be indicted. He could be indicted and the trial could be postponed until he left office.

 

[Oborosen]

Okay, this is just a prediction. I think predictions are fun. I could be wrong, of course. Nevertheless, let's predict, just for the helluvit.

Now, we don't yet have the Mueller report, so I'm making an assumption that
there is in the Mueller report sufficient evidence to indict Trump, so they approach him that he will be indicted after he leaves office ( either in 2020 or after the second term if he wins ) which won't conflict with current DOJ policy.

He'll have to make the decision before 2020 BECAUSE he will realize that they only way
to avoid indictment is to step down, and get a gentleman's agreement from Pence to pardon him
as soon as he takes office ( but I think Mueller has figured a way around this, not sure, though ) but this will be done very quietly, no one will know ( he thinks ) so it won't be a quid pro quo, which would make it illegal ( afaik) , so the president will be forced to step down just before the election.

If he waits, and assumes he will win a second term, it's risky because he might not win, and then Pence would never be president to pardon him. I doubt the Prez is going to risk it. He'll bail.

Note, SDNY already has enough to indict Trump on, as co - conspirator in the Cohen case.

Should the Mueller report reveal some indictable/impeachable stuff, I believe this will be the final play, right out of the Nixon playbook.

Also, I've noticed a lot of talk lately, it's buzzing around dem corridors around the beltway that the prez is, indeed, indictable, that the policy ultimately came from an earlier AG's memo ( I think it was Dixon ) where the unindictability of the prez was more of an anecdotal comment, and was never meant to be the final word on it. The current policy is based entirely from this weak memo.

Moreover,


The Constitution of the United States so states, in Article 1, section 3, clause 7 :


Does that mean the president can be indicted? It says "the party". Is this the president?

I see, therefore, foresee a serious challenge from the left on this.

Pass the popcorn

So when non of this happens. Do I have your permission to point and laugh.. for like the millionth time?

 

[OscarLevant]

Clinton faced the identical situation and it all turned out a-ok for him.

I wouldn't compare Trump's situation with Clinton, more like Nixon's situation.

 

[OscarLevant]

The most likely scenario that I want to see played out is that Mueller releases the report. It's not enough to convince the GOP. They stick with him b/c they are all complicit. Trump loses the 2020 election by a landslide. Such bad numbers that even he has to admit defeat, then the NY, NJ, Florida, and DC authorities jump on him, his family, and any connections not connected to the Mueller investigation. Pence is a better choice than Trump, but I do not want him as President just so he can pardon Trump.

That's what you want to happen, but is that really more likely than my scenario ( assuming Mueller has the goods on trump ) ?

We really don't know how many senators will turn, if the evidence is smoking gun level. ( if it isn't, then this thread is moot ).

I should think many will, because above it all, is the historical record. Would you, as a senator, hang with trump in face of criminal charges, knowing that your decision will be in the historical record? Is that how you want to go down in history, siding with a indicted president?


The thumb on the scale is the Mueller report. If it is serious enough, it might tip the scale against Trump in the Senate.

We shall see.

 

[OscarLevant]

It’s really very simple.

Only Congress can remove a sitting President. Since a person who is indicted is also subject to arrest, it follows that a sitting President can not be indicted.

Nothing in the Constitution saying that the president cannot be indicted.

 

[Sand Castle]

That's what you want to happen, but is that really more likely than my scenario ( assuming Mueller has the goods on trump ) ?

We really don't know how many senators will turn, if the evidence is smoking gun level. ( if it isn't, then this thread is moot ).

I should think many will, because above it all, is the historical record. Would you, as a senator, hang with trump in face of criminal charges, knowing that your decision will be in the historical record? Is that how you want to go down in history, siding with a indicted president?


The thumb on the scale is the Mueller report. If it is serious enough, it might tip the scale against Trump in the Senate.

We shall see.

Bottom line whether Trump is found guilty or not he has been publically exposed as a fraud.

In the last couple of decades I continually heard we need a businessman in the Presidency to strengthen the U.S. economy.

We had Ross Perot and Mitt Romney neither made it.

Along came Donald Trump, who had convinced enough voters that he was a great businessman and would be a great President.

So far Trump has rode the wave of Obama's economic resurrection and has sponsored policies that temporarily boost economic numbers which historically are unsustainable.

Trump's trickle down just like former trickle down debacles will fail and then a Democratic President like Obama will need to re-resurrect our economy once again.

Everything else Trump had touched as President has been a disaster.
The positive note on Trump's handling of the office is he has been exposed as a lying fraud.

And that the high honor of the
U. S. Presidency is a complex job not suitable for feeble minded fake successful businessman.

 

[haymarket]

Okay, this is just a prediction. I think predictions are fun. I could be wrong, of course. Nevertheless, let's predict, just for the helluvit.

Now, we don't yet have the Mueller report, so I'm making an assumption that
there is in the Mueller report sufficient evidence to indict Trump, so they approach him that he will be indicted after he leaves office ( either in 2020 or after the second term if he wins ) which won't conflict with current DOJ policy.

He'll have to make the decision before 2020 BECAUSE he will realize that they only way
to avoid indictment is to step down, and get a gentleman's agreement from Pence to pardon him
as soon as he takes office ( but I think Mueller has figured a way around this, not sure, though ) but this will be done very quietly, no one will know ( he thinks ) so it won't be a quid pro quo, which would make it illegal ( afaik) , so the president will be forced to step down just before the election.

If he waits, and assumes he will win a second term, it's risky because he might not win, and then Pence would never be president to pardon him. I doubt the Prez is going to risk it. He'll bail.

Note, SDNY already has enough to indict Trump on, as co - conspirator in the Cohen case.

Should the Mueller report reveal some indictable/impeachable stuff, I believe this will be the final play, right out of the Nixon playbook.

Also, I've noticed a lot of talk lately, it's buzzing around dem corridors around the beltway that the prez is, indeed, indictable, that the policy ultimately came from an earlier AG's memo ( I think it was Dixon ) where the unindictability of the prez was more of an anecdotal comment, and was never meant to be the final word on it. The current policy is based entirely from this weak memo.

Moreover,


The Constitution of the United States so states, in Article 1, section 3, clause 7 :


Does that mean the president can be indicted? It says "the party". Is this the president?

I see, therefore, foresee a serious challenge from the left on this.

Pass the popcorn

IF the Republicans finally react negatively to all the Trump news about his corruption and criminality, it could very well result in a private visit to the White House which then sees Trump resign "for health reasons" while the entire time proclaiming his innocence of any actual wrong doing. This would happen in time to allow the GOP to rally around another candidate for 2020.

But it all depends on McConnell and a handful of others - mostly in the Senate since they hold the votes to convict on any articles of impeachment the House might bring.

I would say the chances are better than 50/50 Trump gets his fat bloated ass out of town under cover of darkness and is not on the ballot in 2020.

 

[noonereal]

WRONG. The Constitution is VERY SPECIFIC about how a POTUS can be removed...and an "indictment" from UNELECTED BUREAUCRATS is not one, regardless of leftist "pipe dreams".

If he is guilty of an indictable offense...IMPEACH HIM.


It takes the ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES of the People, to remove an ELECTED POTUS.

That is not an accident...our Founders were MUCH WISER than todays' frothy-mouthed left....

Ummmm, our Founders never considered how corrupt out elected officials could be. They set a scenario that a president is above the law. Not very wise to me.

 

[csense]

Nothing in the Constitution saying that the president cannot be indicted.

Yes, that is exactly correct, the Constitution offers no legal remedy for the removal of a sitting President, and since an indictment, in principle, means removal, and only Congress can remove a sitting President, then it stands to reason that a sitting a president can not be indicted.


Why is that so hard to understand.

 

[GDViking]

Clinton faced the identical situation and it all turned out a-ok for him.

Big difference between two consenting adults having an affair and the grocery list of charges trump and company have coming...

 

[GDViking]

I wouldn't compare Trump's situation with Clinton, more like Nixon's situation.

Only far, far worse...

 

[AlphaOmega]

God I love these wishful thinking threads! Keep hope alive guys, that way it stings more when reality slaps you again. I love the Nixon posts...

 

[GDViking]

Nothing in the Constitution saying that the president cannot be indicted.

And I would like to see that challenged.

If trump is under indictment he will not be able to pardon anyone, and if he is fighting both an impeachment and criminal charges, be will be effectively neutered as president and will be able to do little if any more harm to the nation...

 

[Grokmaster]

I agree that indictment without impeachment can't remove a President from office. But that doesn't mean he can't be indicted. He could be indicted and the trial could be postponed until he left office.

Leftist Mythology. Wrong.

 

[Grokmaster]

And I would like to see that challenged.

If trump is under indictment he will not be able to pardon anyone, and if he is fighting both an impeachment and criminal charges, be will be effectively neutered as president and will be able to do little if any more harm to the nation...

Try actually READING the Constitution. It's not VAGUE on how a POTUS can be prosecuted...except in LeftThink...

 

[GDViking]

Ummmm, our Founders never considered how corrupt out elected officials could be. They set a scenario that a president is above the law. Not very wise to me.

See I don't believe that was their intention, they absolutely did not want to give a president the power of a king...

 

[noonereal]

See I don't believe that was their intention, they absolutely did not want to give a president the power of a king...

but that is what is occurring.