• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Why the WH won't secure our borders

Ockham

Noblesse oblige
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
23,909
Reaction score
11,001
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
For those not wanting to or willing to watch the video posted (the pertinant part starts at about 3:15), here's the summary:

Obama doesn't want to secure the Arizona border unless he gets something out of it. On it's face that may seem to be a simple charge of "business as usual" yet, it is in direct violation the President's oath of office. Discharging and doing one's duty should not be held hostage to gain political points when, as it is in this case, people are dying, being kidnapped, and potentially our national security is being violated every day.

This is gross negligence and if what Kyle says occurred - it's gross negligence.


 

Aunt Spiker

Cheese
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
28,433
Reaction score
16,986
Location
Sasnakra
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
Obama doesn't want to secure the Arizona border unless he gets something out of it
It's always been that way - which seems in direct contrast to his oath of office - but it's always been that way.

Every - single - thing passed and done in government benefits government somehow. If securing the border meant the government would gain massive net profit - then they'd be all over it. right now, though, it seems like an expense that has no 'up' side other than upholding the law
 

Deuce

Outer space potato man
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
74,279
Reaction score
32,391
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Funny how this became such a big deal when there was a (D) in the president's slot. The (R)'s seem to get a pass.
 

mike2810

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
23,022
Reaction score
8,077
Location
arizona
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Funny how this became such a big deal when there was a (D) in the president's slot. The (R)'s seem to get a pass.
Or maybe the cummulative effect of illegals crossing over each year, the increased drug trafficing has finally reached a peak. It could be that the same would be happening if there was a (R) President. The bottom line the Feds need to do the job of immigration and border security. It has been failing for years and years.

If in fact Kyle statements are true, then shame on or President. Thought Obama wanted to change the way Washington did business. Looks like he is going to continue the same old methods. IMO, we need elected officials who will do what is good for America and not what is good for the party.
 
Last edited:

SgtRock

#1A #2A #Trump2020 #KAG
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
7,021
Reaction score
2,894
Location
Deep in the Heart of Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Thats the way politics are done in Chicago, why would we expect anything else from the Obama administration. Since the last amnesty was granted by President Regan all American presidents have neglected to do there duty to secure the border. I am ok with Immigration reform with a path to citizenship if it comes with complete border security which must happen first. I would prefer deportation but I doubt that is going to take place, so we compromise, but only on the condition that the border is permanently secured first.
 

pragmatic

"Pawn in game of life"
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
2,219
Reaction score
1,027
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
For those not wanting to or willing to watch the video posted (the pertinant part starts at about 3:15), here's the summary:

Obama doesn't want to secure the Arizona border unless he gets something out of it. On it's face that may seem to be a simple charge of "business as usual" yet, it is in direct violation the President's oath of office. Discharging and doing one's duty should not be held hostage to gain political points when, as it is in this case, people are dying, being kidnapped, and potentially our national security is being violated every day.

This is gross negligence and if what Kyle says occurred - it's gross negligence.

Interesting revelation. You have the date of when that town hall meeting took place? Be great to see how Obama would respond to Kyle's charge at the next presidential press conference.


(and what is up with that furry ball cap the guy on the left was wearing....? :shock:)



.
 
Last edited:

Aunt Spiker

Cheese
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
28,433
Reaction score
16,986
Location
Sasnakra
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
Funny how this became such a big deal when there was a (D) in the president's slot. The (R)'s seem to get a pass.
We wouldn't even be discussing it if Arizona hadn't passed their bill - so that makes us all hypocrites, I guess.
 

Boo Radley

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
37,066
Reaction score
7,028
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
This is gross negligence and if what Kyle says occurred - it's gross negligence.
A couple of points. The word IF is an important one. It very well may not have gone down as Kyle reports it. Being private is very convienent for him.

Second, comprhensive reform is more important in the long term. However, neither party will ever really tackle this problem. Illgeal immigration has been a problem for as long as I can remember. Name any time either party actually closed or secured the boarder? Other than talk, which both sides have a certain skill at, show where either the democrats or the republicans have ever really acted? I suggest you can't because they really don't want to. And the reason has to do with needing cheap labor.
 

WI Crippler

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 10, 2006
Messages
15,429
Reaction score
9,577
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Funny how this became such a big deal when there was a (D) in the president's slot. The (R)'s seem to get a pass.
I seem to recall quite a bit of disgust by the right about this issue not being tackled by the republicans. It was one of many strikes against Sen. McCain for conservatives in the election. Not saying he would have won had his stance been different, but nobody on the right was really pleased with McCain for this reason(amongst others).

At some point, Obama does have the ability and power to do "something". Maybe its time we start expecting him to secure our borders now, rather than lament that it wasn't done in the past. Or maybe like his predecessors, he doesn't want the negative stigma that the left would certainly attach to such an action. Although they likely wouldn't say he was racist, if he did something.
 

Ockham

Noblesse oblige
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
23,909
Reaction score
11,001
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Interesting revelation. You have the date of when that town hall meeting took place? Be great to see how Obama would respond to Kyle's charge at the next presidential press conference.


(and what is up with that furry ball cap the guy on the left was wearing....? :shock:)

Yeah, that furry cap was distracting me through the whole clip...
According to RedState, which is on my RSS crawl on my browser:

On June 18, 2010, Sen. Jon Kyl appeared in Phoenix at a town hall style meeting hosted by the North Phoenix Tea Party Group.

]Sen. Jon Kyl on strategies to fight for our rights against the leftist Dems, Minion Media and Elena Kagan | RedState
 

Ockham

Noblesse oblige
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
23,909
Reaction score
11,001
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Or because he knows that securing the border wont solve our immigration problem.

Nearly Half of Illegal Immigrants Overstay Visas : NPR
Securing the border of the U.S. is the one duty he must complete - nothing by itself will solve our immigration problem - however, securing the border will be one step towards solving immigration problems, as well as protecting the people who are being killed and kidnapped in our own country. Securing the border is also necessary to uphold our own national security. Holding it hostage for political gain is negligent and irresponsible on Obama's part.
 

justabubba

long standing member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
49,786
Reaction score
31,596
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Thats the way politics are done in Chicago, why would we expect anything else from the Obama administration. Since the last amnesty was granted by President Regan all American presidents have neglected to do there duty to secure the border. I am ok with Immigration reform with a path to citizenship if it comes with complete border security which must happen first. I would prefer deportation but I doubt that is going to take place, so we compromise, but only on the condition that the border is permanently secured first.
no need for another amnesty ... anyone notice how ineffective the last one was to curtail illegal immigration
no need for wasting lots of money to "secure" our borders
all we need to do is quit incentivizing illegal immigration and enforce existing laws*

any employer found to have an illegal immigrant in his employment would be subject to a $5,000 fine per infraction
and the person who notifies INS (now USCIS) of that illegal employee receives the $5,000 for their assistance in enforcing the immigration laws
while i said existing laws*, we would have to tweak some so that no illegal immigrant could attend a public school, get a drivers license, receive public healthcare (unless at risk of imminent death), or qualify for any form of public assistance
being without access to work and pubic assistance, that whoosh sound you would hear would be the caravan of vehicles making their way south of the border
problem solved; and the only expense would be the cost of law enforcement, which cost we already incur
 

Hoplite

Technomancer
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
3,779
Reaction score
1,077
Location
California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Securing the border of the U.S. is the one duty he must complete - nothing by itself will solve our immigration problem - however, securing the border will be one step towards solving immigration problems, as well as protecting the people who are being killed and kidnapped in our own country. Securing the border is also necessary to uphold our own national security. Holding it hostage for political gain is negligent and irresponsible on Obama's part.
Again, the border is about half the problem. A lot of undocumented immigrants are people who overstay a work or student visa. Securing the border is extremely expensive and I dont see that basically locking down the border will save us enough money to justify doing it.
 

zimmer

Educating the Ignorant
Suspended
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 19, 2008
Messages
23,745
Reaction score
7,654
Location
Worldwide
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
Funny how this became such a big deal when there was a (D) in the president's slot. The (R)'s seem to get a pass.
I do recall Americans rising up and telling DC to stop their stupid pursuit of amnesty.

Bush43 was president.
McCain was a supporter.

Republicans (and some others) told them No, no, no...

Or are we in a parallel universe?

.
 
Last edited:

Boo Radley

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
37,066
Reaction score
7,028
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
I do recall Americans rising up and telling DC to stop their stupid pursuit of amnesty.

Bush43 was president.
McCain was a supporter.

Republicans (and some others) told them No, no, no...

Or are we in a parallel universe?

.
So, we agree, neither party really wants to deal with this issue as many would like them too?
 

tacomancer

Big Scary Liberal
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
39,845
Reaction score
20,676
Location
Akron
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Funny how this became such a big deal when there was a (D) in the president's slot. The (R)'s seem to get a pass.
Thats not true. If I remember correctly, Immigration was one of those things that Republicans in general wanted, but Bush was for amnesty. The issue would crop up during his presidency from time to time for a few news cycles and die back down.
 

Crunch

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
4,063
Reaction score
890
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
no need for another amnesty ... anyone notice how ineffective the last one was to curtail illegal immigration
no need for wasting lots of money to "secure" our borders
all we need to do is quit incentivizing illegal immigration and enforce existing laws*

any employer found to have an illegal immigrant in his employment would be subject to a $5,000 fine per infraction
You don't go far enough... per infraction, and per day.
and the person who notifies INS (now USCIS) of that illegal employee receives the $5,000 for their assistance in enforcing the immigration laws
while i said existing laws*, we would have to tweak some so that no illegal immigrant could attend a public school, get a drivers license, receive public healthcare (unless at risk of imminent death), or qualify for any form of public assistance
being without access to work and pubic assistance, that whoosh sound you would hear would be the caravan of vehicles making their way south of the border
problem solved; and the only expense would be the cost of law enforcement, which cost we already incur
:applaud
 

Ockham

Noblesse oblige
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
23,909
Reaction score
11,001
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Here's the latest:

Kyl's a liar according to the White House.


“The President didn’t say that and Senator Kyl knows it," White House communications director Dan Pfeiffer told ABC News. "There are more resources dedicated toward border security today than ever before, but, as the President has made clear, truly securing the border will require a comprehensive solution to our broken immigration system.”
White House: Senator Kyl Not Telling Truth About Immigration Reform Conversation - Political Punch
 

pragmatic

"Pawn in game of life"
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
2,219
Reaction score
1,027
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
So, we agree, neither party really wants to deal with this issue as many would like them too?
Don't doubt there is a degree of truth to what you say. But we shouldn't confuse this with being a "good thing".


.
 

pragmatic

"Pawn in game of life"
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
2,219
Reaction score
1,027
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent

Boo Radley

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
37,066
Reaction score
7,028
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Did you expect anything else?
Which is why no serious person should have taken Kyl's words at face value. We should only accept what can be supported.
 

Boo Radley

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
37,066
Reaction score
7,028
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Don't doubt there is a degree of truth to what you say. But we shouldn't confuse this with being a "good thing".


.
Oh, I never said it was a good thing. But until we understand the problem, we really can't effectively find a solution. Either their reasons are valid, and we should let things stand, or we should find the best way to combat it. Letting them try to claim they are going do something when history shows us they really won't makes us tools, useful idiots. We don't need new laws, but the will to actually address trhe issue. I suspect the will appease us momentarily, and ten years from now, we'll be right back in this situation. Knowing why would help us plan better.
 
Top Bottom