Why the US needs to lower the legal drinking age

[Captain Adverse]

Actually 21 was the age of majority in english common law but 18 was the military age.

Are you limiting "history" to English history? If you want to find various examples of when the age of "legal" adulthood was either older or younger in various civilizations, that's not too difficult. But when you consider the entire history of Human existence I'd think you'd find that as soon as a juvenile was considered of a size and strength to both contribute fully to the group and breed, they were considered adults.

In any case, my point is that 18 IS the legal age of adulthood now (where it was 21), and therefore if one is a legal adult at whatever age then they should have all the rights of adulthood not just all the obligations. If the age is reduced to 16, then the same applies.

 

[Masterhawk]

I forgot another reason why to repeal the national minimum drinking age act: it intrudes on states' rights. In fact, Louisiana tried to get the law repealed but the supreme court ruled that it did not violate the 10th amendment. Before the act was signed, the LDA ranged from 18 to 21 by US state (California was one of the few which had it set to 21 beforehand and likely played a big part in the ratification of the act considering that Ronald Reagan was from California).

 

[zyzygy]

europe has its drinking age at 18 and there aren't as many drunk driving incidents

I live in Belgium and it's 16 here. You don't see much public drunkeness.


Drinking age in Belgium | DrinkingMap.com

 

[ABSurveyor]

Canadian chiming in. The legal drinking age in my province is 18. It removes the "cool" factor to know that having a beer on a patio at 19 is legal, and I think that helps reduce instances of binge drinking. As far as I'm concerned, if you can vote, and your body is mostly done developing, alcohol should be legal.

 

[LowDown]

I live in Belgium and it's 16 here. You don't see much public drunkeness.


Drinking age in Belgium | DrinkingMap.com

You have a better class of teenager in Belgium than we have in America. The drinking age in America was raised to 21 because the data showed that they were getting drunk and killing themselves and others. Yes, they can join the military at 18 presumably because they are sober and supervised in that case.

I'd be in favor of lowering the age at which people can drink to 18 only if they also raise the age at which people can drive to 21. I don't care to get T boned at an intersection by a drunk 18 year old driver.

 

[roguenuke]

You have a better class of teenager in Belgium than we have in America. The drinking age in America was raised to 21 because the data showed that they were getting drunk and killing themselves and others. Yes, they can join the military at 18 presumably because they are sober and supervised in that case.

I'd be in favor of lowering the age at which people can drink to 18 only if they also raise the age at which people can drive to 21. I don't care to get T boned at an intersection by a drunk 18 year old driver.

Hate to tell you but most military members drink before they are 21. I knew very few in a class of 600 or on a ship of 3000 that hadn't drank before they were 21 (the majority of those I went to school with were under 21 since the age limit for our program is 25).

Whether the age limit is 18 or 21 you still have a very similar chance of getting t-boned in an intersection by an inexperienced teenaged driver.

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[bluesmoke]

His church turned against God. But the fact remains, his impact on European history was monumental

now as to drinking ages-if you are old enough to serve in the military and say fly a machine that can obliterate 6 city blocks in the time it takes to sneeze, you are old enough to have a drink

There is no way one of an age under 21 that would be in charge of anything anywhere near something that would resemble a button that could obliterate 6 city blocks.

 

[bluesmoke]

Hate to tell you but most military members drink before they are 21. I knew very few in a class of 600 or on a ship of 3000 that hadn't drank before they were 21 (the majority of those I went to school with were under 21 since the age limit for our program is 25).

Whether the age limit is 18 or 21 you still have a very similar chance of getting t-boned in an intersection by an inexperienced teenaged driver.

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If you are a serviceman under 21 and walk into a bar that serves the military, you will get served. In any country that has liquor.

 

[Verthaine]

Moses was a brilliant general and prince. He is a good role model. He is the reason that you and I are writing in alpha-bet not in cuneiform.

Didn't Moses commit genocide?
Some role model.

Isn't our alphabet based on Latin?

 

[bluesmoke]

Moses was a brilliant general and prince. He is a good role model. He is the reason that you and I are writing in alpha-bet not in cuneiform.

Unlike Jesus, there is no proof that Moses ever existed. Then, you add the alpha-bet as a contribution of this non-existent being to those that use the alpha-bet today... Te alpha-bet was originally an Egyptian idea developed by the Semites. Jewish-Arabic.

Moses: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/12/10/was-moses-real/

Alpha-bet: The Origin of the Alphabet

 

[TurtleDude]

There is no way one of an age under 21 that would be in charge of anything anywhere near something that would resemble a button that could obliterate 6 city blocks.

take that up with the military. the airplane my Uncle flew in WWII, between the bombs and the machine guns could lay waste to several city blocks in seconds.

 

[bluesmoke]

take that up with the military. the airplane my Uncle flew in WWII, between the bombs and the machine guns could lay waste to several city blocks in seconds.

You're right. That was WWII. I will have to say, if all sh*t broke out, we may find ourselves today with teenagers, in a nuclear-armed jet, with their finger on the button. That would be in a case of the end. Nobody else left but the kids.

 

[roguenuke]

There is no way one of an age under 21 that would be in charge of anything anywhere near something that would resemble a button that could obliterate 6 city blocks.

Actually most nukes in the navy arrive at their ship, qualify to operate a nuclear reactor prior to turning 21. I did. I was affecting the power output of a nuclear reactor before I was able to drink legally.


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[roguenuke]

If you are a serviceman under 21 and walk into a bar that serves the military, you will get served. In any country that has liquor.

Not in the US. In fact, several places in such cities would turn you away if your only form of ID was a military issued one because they used to be extremely easy to change dates on.


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[joG]

By now, it is no suprise that America's legal drinking age is 21. This was achieved in the National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984 in an effort to cut down on drunk driving which threatened to cut off 10% of highway funding to states which did not comply. Politicians have always remained silent about the legal drinking age; even bernie sanders who has won the support of many millennials remains silent about it. Now that elections are coming up, it is time to break the silence and here's why it should be lowered to 18.

1. Double standard: you are old enough to participate in the voting process, join the military, smoke tobacco (except in california), and buy a home at 18 but drinking responsibly requires too much maturity? Alcolhol has become a big part of america's culture as seen in the extensive amount of beer commercials on sports channels. Smoking tobacco has become increasingly unpopular. Why do you only have to be 18 to smoke but 21 to drink then?

2. the rest of the world frowns upon this: here are all of the countries' legal drinking ages (pic below). The crimson ones have it set at 21 while the black ones are under prohibition. 14 countries have it a 21, only one of which does not have a muslim majority (take notes islamaphobes)
View attachment 67201037

There are people who defend the legal drinking age saying that it saves lives. My counterargument is that banning cars saves even more lives.

Though, we had wine for dinner as of about 10, I am not really nervous about taking up rather harmful drugs later than earlier. It is only that I do not think that law is the way to go. Like with schools a smart population will encourage children to refrain from stupid behavior. If parents do not socialize their kids well, the problem is already a generation too late and making it a police affair will not mend it.

 

[Quag]

I am a proponent of teen freedom:

sex 14

Beer/wine 16

Driving 16

booze 18

tobacco 18

pot 18

Military service 18

Gambling 21

Seems OK to me except for the fact that there is no real difference between beer/wine and booze its all alcohol and why is gambling 21? If you can fights/die for your country and vote for its leaders why not gamble?

 

[bluesmoke]

Actually most nukes in the navy arrive at their ship, qualify to operate a nuclear reactor prior to turning 21. I did. I was affecting the power output of a nuclear reactor before I was able to drink legally.


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You "qualified". That doesn't mean when the sh*t comes down, at under 21, you'd have your finger on the button. Because you wouldn't. Now way. Not until you were one of the few "qualified" humans left.

 

[bluesmoke]

Not in the US. In fact, several places in such cities would turn you away if your only form of ID was a military issued one because they used to be extremely easy to change dates on.


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"Several places". "...only form of ID was a military issued one." So, if you cross the number of those in service with only a military ID with the "several places" that would reject them therefor, what percentage do you think that would be? My guess is that those are bars closest to military bases. I think your reply is factual. Much like the observance of a mosquito biting an elephant is factual.

 

[roguenuke]

You "qualified". That doesn't mean when the sh*t comes down, at under 21, you'd have your finger on the button. Because you wouldn't. Now way. Not until you were one of the few "qualified" humans left.

Who said anything about a button? It takes just some tweaking at the right time and you turn the nuclear aircraft carrier into Chernobyl or TMI. It has nothing to do with nuclear weapons. Having the knowledge and access to do this would be pretty much all it took and many who have that knowledge and access were under 21 when they gained it, and were first able to apply it had they wanted to do so.

 

[roguenuke]

"Several places". "...only form of ID was a military issued one." So, if you cross the number of those in service with only a military ID with the "several places" that would reject them therefor, what percentage do you think that would be? My guess is that those are bars closest to military bases. I think your reply is factual. Much like the observance of a mosquito biting an elephant is factual.

I think you're wrong. You have no evidence that military towns are more likely to allow military members to drink underage, especially not to welcome them to simply for having a military ID.

 

[bluesmoke]

Who said anything about a button? It takes just some tweaking at the right time and you turn the nuclear aircraft carrier into Chernobyl or TMI. It has nothing to do with nuclear weapons. Having the knowledge and access to do this would be pretty much all it took and many who have that knowledge and access were under 21 when they gained it, and were first able to apply it had they wanted to do so.

"...were under 21 when they gained it, and were first able to apply it had they wanted to do so."


Gee. Thanks for the details. What do you mean by "...when they gained it,.."? That implies they gained the knowledge before age
21 but not put into such a position until after age 21.

Plain and simple, I don't believe anybody in the chain of button pushing is under 21. The military knows that the human mind is not fully developed before the age of 21. What proof do you have that a strategic button-pusher is under the age of 21?

 

[roguenuke]

"...were under 21 when they gained it, and were first able to apply it had they wanted to do so."


Gee. Thanks for the details. What do you mean by "...when they gained it,.."? That implies they gained the knowledge before age
21 but not put into such a position until after age 21.

Plain and simple, I don't believe anybody in the chain of button pushing is under 21. The military knows that the human mind is not fully developed before the age of 21. What proof do you have that a strategic button-pusher is under the age of 21?

You're reading it wrong then. I was fully qualified and operating nuclear reactors, easily in a position to seriously turn Seattle into a new TMI before the age of 21, as were most other nukes I know. I wasn't even 20 when I first reported to the ship and I knew at least one guy who was a year younger than me starting school.


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[Absentglare]

Everything that's legal should be OK at 18. If you haven't learned it by then, a few more years isn't going to do ****.

 

[bluesmoke]

You're reading it wrong then. I was fully qualified and operating nuclear reactors, easily in a position to seriously turn Seattle into a new TMI before the age of 21, as were most other nukes I know. I wasn't even 20 when I first reported to the ship and I knew at least one guy who was a year younger than me starting school.


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No oversight, or fallbacks, checks? Were you and they in a decision making position? Or just following specific orders? The young do better following specific orders because they don't know better than the little they know, which is orders.

 

[roguenuke]

No oversight, or fallbacks, checks? Were you and they in a decision making position? Or just following specific orders? The young do better following specific orders because they don't know better than the little they know, which is orders.

There's plenty of checks and other such things in place, including safety measures. But if someone wanted to, they absolutely could bypass them, so long as they knew how and were trusted enough to operate those systems.

And we had to know what our system did. We were actually really some of the worst order followers in the military because a major part of our job involved questioning orders we were given that seem wrong. If an order we are given was wrong and we followed it anyway knowing it was wrong, we could seriously screw up the reactor, cause a major nuclear incident.


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