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Why the latest Manafort news is a very big deal

calamity

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Of course, the cultists will disagree. But, come on. Let's be real here.

On Tuesday we learned -- thanks to a redaction error in a filing in the special counsel's investigation into Russian interference -- that Paul Manafort met with a Russian-linked operative named Konstantin Kilimnik during the course of the 2016 campaign. And in that meeting, according to special counsel Robert Mueller's office, Manafort discussed policies related to the Russia-Ukraine relationship and shared polling data about the 2016 campaign with Kilimnik.

That. Is. Huge.

Yes, it is ****ing HUGE!

Manafort, according to the filings, had conversations with Kilimnik, who is suspected to be a member of the Russian intelligence organization, while he was serving as the head of Trump's campaign.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/09/politics/paul-manafort-donald-trump-robert-mueller/index.html

It's slam dunk Huge.

The president's men conspired with foreign spies to steal an election.


Hate to tell ya, but that should be more than impeachable, more than incarcerationable, and certainly not forgivable.
 

Mycroft

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Of course, the cultists will disagree. But, come on. Let's be real here.



Yes, it is ****ing HUGE!



It's slam dunk Huge.

The president's men conspired with foreign spies to steal an election.


Hate to tell ya, but that should be more than impeachable, more than incarcerationable, and certainly not forgivable.

1. Before you get all giddy with excited glee, how about you wait for proof that Manafort gave polling data to anyone. At this point, this is nothing more that a claim by the Mueller team that is supported by an unidentified third party. Heck, Mueller won't even let the defense see the evidence. "Trust me, Judge...we have the evidence."

2. But hey...let's say some polling data was given to a Russian. So what? Releasing polling data isn't against the law. The data isn't classified.

So no...there is nothing to suggest that anybody connected to Trump "conspired with foreign spies to steal an election." If Manafort did anything, I think he was bragging to the Russian...showing him how Trump is going to win.

btw, if Kilimnik is "suspected to be a member of the Russian intelligence organization", maybe y'all should worry about getting beyond a suspicion on that first. That would certainly help you spin your speculation.
 

calamity

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1. Before you get all giddy with excited glee, how about you wait for proof that Manafort gave polling data to anyone. At this point, this is nothing more that a claim by the Mueller team that is supported by an unidentified third party. Heck, Mueller won't even let the defense see the evidence. "Trust me, Judge...we have the evidence."

2. But hey...let's say some polling data was given to a Russian. So what? Releasing polling data isn't against the law. The data isn't classified.

So no...there is nothing to suggest that anybody connected to Trump "conspired with foreign spies to steal an election." If Manafort did anything, I think he was bragging to the Russian...showing him how Trump is going to win.

btw, if Kilimnik is "suspected to be a member of the Russian intelligence organization", maybe y'all should worry about getting beyond a suspicion on that first. That would certainly help you spin your speculation.

All I want to hear from you is "I'm sorry. I was wrong."
 

OscarLevant

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Of course, the cultists will disagree. But, come on. Let's be real here.



Yes, it is ****ing HUGE!



It's slam dunk Huge.

The president's men conspired with foreign spies to steal an election.


Hate to tell ya, but that should be more than impeachable, more than incarcerationable, and certainly not forgivable.

Will have to prove a trump knew about what manafort was doing because it's also possible manafort was doing it to cure his debt to the Russian. But it's possible both are true

If both are true then it's all over for Trump
 

Mycroft

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Nickyjo

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Will have to prove a trump knew about what manafort was doing because it's also possible manafort was doing it to cure his debt to the Russian. But it's possible both are true

If both are true then it's all over for Trump

I don't understand. Say Manafort (even with Trump's knowledge) is trying to talk to Russians about future relationships should Trump get elected, and the Ruskie wants more data to show that's likely. I think I (horrors!) agree with Mycroft on this, unless I am missing something. There is no doubt a likelihood that Trump will do something wrong with the relationship, but this just enhances suspicions, that's all.
 

Mach

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2. But hey...let's say some polling data was given to a Russian. So what?
If done knowing what they were doing, it would be participating in this established criminal conspiracy:

The internet research indictment of Russians had this as its primary conspiracy:
Conspiracy to Defraud the United States - defendants [aka Russia] *along with others*, knowingly and intentionally conspired to defraud the United States by impairing, obstruction, and defeating the lawful functions of the FEC, the DOJ, and State Department in administering federal requirements for disclosure of foreign involvement in certain domestic activities.
Releasing polling data isn't against the law.
No one claimed it was. Nor is it relevant.
The data isn't classified.
No one claimed it was. Nor is it relevant.

So no...there is nothing to suggest that anybody connected to Trump "conspired with foreign spies to steal an election."
See above, the conspiracy. If Manafort knowingly assisted the Russians in their illegal conspiracy against the United States, he would be a part of that conspiracy.
Since we do know he lied about it and tried to cover it up, there appears to be evidence of intent (knowing).

Whether they can prove it and bring charges for it, is a separate question.

btw, if Kilimnik is "suspected to be a member of the Russian intelligence organization", maybe y'all should worry about getting beyond a suspicion on that first. That would certainly help you spin your speculation.
That's not necessary, why do we have to meet your irrelevant and arbitrary desires?
 

iguanaman

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1. Before you get all giddy with excited glee, how about you wait for proof that Manafort gave polling data to anyone. At this point, this is nothing more that a claim by the Mueller team that is supported by an unidentified third party. Heck, Mueller won't even let the defense see the evidence. "Trust me, Judge...we have the evidence."

2. But hey...let's say some polling data was given to a Russian. So what? Releasing polling data isn't against the law. The data isn't classified.

So no...there is nothing to suggest that anybody connected to Trump "conspired with foreign spies to steal an election." If Manafort did anything, I think he was bragging to the Russian...showing him how Trump is going to win.

btw, if Kilimnik is "suspected to be a member of the Russian intelligence organization", maybe y'all should worry about getting beyond a suspicion on that first. That would certainly help you spin your speculation.

How much is Putin paying you for spouting the party line at every turn? BTW Sharing stolen Facebook data weaponized by Cambridge Analytica with a foreign power who is attempting to influence our elections is called a conspiracy to defraud the U.S. and is a serious felony.

Cambridge Analytica, a political data firm hired by President Trump’s 2016 election campaign, gained access to private information on more than 50 million Facebook users. The firm offered tools that could identify the personalities of American voters and influence their behavior.

Cambridge has been largely funded by Robert Mercer, the wealthy Republican donor, and Stephen K. Bannon, a former adviser to the president who became an early board member and gave the firm its name. It has pitched its services to potential clients ranging from Mastercard and the New York Yankees to the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/19/technology/facebook-cambridge-analytica-explained.html
 

Mycroft

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If done knowing what they were doing, it would be participating in this established criminal conspiracy:

The internet research indictment of Russians had this as its primary conspiracy:
Conspiracy to Defraud the United States - defendants [aka Russia] *along with others*, knowingly and intentionally conspired to defraud the United States by impairing, obstruction, and defeating the lawful functions of the FEC, the DOJ, and State Department in administering federal requirements for disclosure of foreign involvement in certain domestic activities.

No one claimed it was. Nor is it relevant.

No one claimed it was. Nor is it relevant.


See above, the conspiracy. If Manafort knowingly assisted the Russians in their illegal conspiracy against the United States, he would be a part of that conspiracy.
Since we do know he lied about it and tried to cover it up, there appears to be evidence of intent (knowing).

Whether they can prove it and bring charges for it, is a separate question.


That's not necessary, why do we have to meet your irrelevant and arbitrary desires?

LOL!!

If you want to establish "conspiracy", you have to prove some connection to conspirators on the other side. That means you have to prove that Kilimnik is connected to those conspirators.

So yes...it is absolutely necessary. You can't charge someone with conspiring to commit a crime with someone if you cannot prove that someone is connected to the crime.

Also, you have to prove that the data that might have been passed along (that's another thing you'll have to prove...that data was actually passed along) was for the purpose of defrauding the US.

So...before you start counting coup against Trump, you have a LOT that needs to be proven...not to mention proving that Trump took part in any of this.

I'll leave you to it. Get back to me when you have evidence, eh?
 

markjs

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What I have yet to see anyone acknowlege, this was not ordinary "availabale to anyone" polling data. This was the kind campaigns pay big money for to gather demographic data to aim the campaign. Even then, not sure of the legality of sharing it itself, but it certainly would prove "criminal compiracy" aka "COLLUSION" So yes, there was INDEED collusion, as if anyone in the right mind listening to Trump's denials didn't know that anyway.:roll:
 

Mycroft

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How much is Putin paying you for spouting the party line at every turn? BTW Sharing stolen Facebook data weaponized by Cambridge Analytica with a foreign power who is attempting to influence our elections is called a conspiracy to defraud the U.S. and is a serious felony.

Oh? Has Cambridge Analytica been charged with...well, anything by the US government?

In any case, Facebook data is not polling data.

Dismissed.
 

Mycroft

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What I have yet to see anyone acknowlege, this was not ordinary "availabale to anyone" polling data. This was the kind campaigns pay big money for to gather demographic data to aim the campaign. Even then, not sure of the legality of sharing it itself, but it certainly would prove "criminal compiracy" aka "COLLUSION" So yes, there was INDEED collusion, as if anyone in the right mind listening to Trump's denials didn't know that anyway.:roll:

Did Manafort steal the polling data from the campaign? If not, then giving it to whomever they decide to give it to is not illegal.

But you still have to prove that 1.) He gave anything to anyone. And, 2) he gave it to someone connected to the Russian government. And, 3) He did it to "collude" or "conspire" for some reason.

Have fun trying to prove all that. Heck, if Mueller had been able to do that, he wouldn't have bothered with decades-old charges.
 

ecofarm

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Did Manafort steal the polling data from the campaign? If not, then giving it to whomever they decide to give it to is not illegal.

But you still have to prove that 1.) He gave anything to anyone. And, 2) he gave it to someone connected to the Russian government. And, 3) He did it to "collude" or "conspire" for some reason.

Have fun trying to prove all that. Heck, if Mueller had been able to do that, he wouldn't have bothered with decades-old charges.

Why did he do it?
 

calamity

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How much is Putin paying you for spouting the party line at every turn? BTW Sharing stolen Facebook data weaponized by Cambridge Analytica with a foreign power who is attempting to influence our elections is called a conspiracy to defraud the U.S. and is a serious felony.

This post hits it, on all counts, from the first word forward.
 

calamity

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What I have yet to see anyone acknowlege, this was not ordinary "availabale to anyone" polling data. This was the kind campaigns pay big money for to gather demographic data to aim the campaign. Even then, not sure of the legality of sharing it itself, but it certainly would prove "criminal compiracy" aka "COLLUSION" So yes, there was INDEED collusion, as if anyone in the right mind listening to Trump's denials didn't know that anyway.:roll:

As many stated early and often: Russian trolls would never have known who to target with what info if not for Trump campaign collusion. Trump research found the dummies; Russians fed them fake news.
 

Hawkeye10

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As many stated early and often: Russian trolls would never have known who to target with what info if not for Trump campaign collusion. Trump research found the dummies; Russians fed them fake news.

Facebook and everyone else was selling personal data....that is how they make their money.....all the Russians needed to get that information was money...... So No.
 

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Of course, the cultists will disagree. But, come on. Let's be real here.



Yes, it is ****ing HUGE!



It's slam dunk Huge.

The president's men conspired with foreign spies to steal an election.


Hate to tell ya, but that should be more than impeachable, more than incarcerationable, and certainly not forgivable.

How large of an act of treason warrants the death penalty???

I would think coordinating with a hostile foreign nation to fix an American election,particularly with a country that controls the vast majority of your personal wealth should qualify...
 

GDViking

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All I want to hear from you is "I'm sorry. I was wrong."

I'm sorry but that statement just sounded like something a drunk asshole would say to his wife when he gets home from doing the bowling alley slut...
 

Hawkeye10

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All I want to hear from you is "I'm sorry. I was wrong."

In other words "My listening, if it ever existed, has stopped".

You are never going to learn anything that way.
 

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LOL!!

If you want to establish "conspiracy", you have to prove some connection to conspirators on the other side. That means you have to prove that Kilimnik is connected to those conspirators.

So yes...it is absolutely necessary. You can't charge someone with conspiring to commit a crime with someone if you cannot prove that someone is connected to the crime.

Also, you have to prove that the data that might have been passed along (that's another thing you'll have to prove...that data was actually passed along) was for the purpose of defrauding the US.

So...before you start counting coup against Trump, you have a LOT that needs to be proven...not to mention proving that Trump took part in any of this.

I'll leave you to it. Get back to me when you have evidence, eh?

Do you ever get tired of making up spin that in some way in your own tiney mind exonerates trump from any of the crimes he has committed that are completely obvious to any rationale person???
 

iguanaman

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LOL!!

If you want to establish "conspiracy", you have to prove some connection to conspirators on the other side. That means you have to prove that Kilimnik is connected to those conspirators.

So yes...it is absolutely necessary. You can't charge someone with conspiring to commit a crime with someone if you cannot prove that someone is connected to the crime.

Also, you have to prove that the data that might have been passed along (that's another thing you'll have to prove...that data was actually passed along) was for the purpose of defrauding the US.

So...before you start counting coup against Trump, you have a LOT that needs to be proven...not to mention proving that Trump took part in any of this.

I'll leave you to it. Get back to me when you have evidence, eh?

Manafort was Trumps campaign manager, second in command to Trump when these transfers happened and Gates was involved too. He is a witness for the prosecution that will testfy that Trump knew about data transfers and also where they were ultimately going, the GRU Troll farm. Kilimnik is a known Russian operative close to Putin who also worked with Manafort in the Ukraine when he was paid by pro-Putin oligarcs. It's a open and shut case for a investigator like Mueller. But you can rest easy because that "crack attorney" Rudy Guliani is busy working on a "counter report". :lol:

180910_r32737.jpg


https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/09/10/how-rudy-giuliani-turned-into-trumps-clown
 
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Mycroft

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Do you ever get tired of making up spin that in some way in your own tiney mind exonerates trump from any of the crimes he has committed that are completely obvious to any rationale person???

I haven't exonerated Trump for anything. But, neither have I convicted him in my "tiney" (???) mind without any evidence or proof.
 

calamity

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Facebook and everyone else was selling personal data....that is how they make their money.....all the Russians needed to get that information was money...... So No.

Facebook didn’t have detailed pollling data to sell. So, yes.

You just don’t want to believe that you were well played.
 
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