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Why should those with natural immunity be forced to vaccinate?

Chainsawmassacre

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Makes no sense to me. Why force people with natural and possibly superior immunity to be vaccinated with a new and controversial vaccine?


"The Israeli researchers discovered that immunity acquired through infection from COVID-19 is superior to immunity from the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine. The study also found that fully-vaccinated but uninfected people were significantly more likely to have a “breakthrough” COVID infection than people who had previously been infected and recovered from the disease.

“This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant,” the authors conclude."


 
Makes no sense to me. Why force people with natural and possibly superior immunity to be vaccinated with a new and controversial vaccine?


"The Israeli researchers discovered that immunity acquired through infection from COVID-19 is superior to immunity from the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine. The study also found that fully-vaccinated but uninfected people were significantly more likely to have a “breakthrough” COVID infection than people who had previously been infected and recovered from the disease.

“This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant,” the authors conclude."


Dr Fauci is just as confused about that as you are.

 
Everyone is gonna help improve the situation, I know dead beats and cowards are looking for excuses, but we need everyone to reduce their own transmission in any way possible and the best way is vaccination.

Everyone is pitching in. Pay no attention to the crying cowards.
 
Makes no sense to me. Why force people with natural and possibly superior immunity to be vaccinated with a new and controversial vaccine?


"The Israeli researchers discovered that immunity acquired through infection from COVID-19 is superior to immunity from the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine. The study also found that fully-vaccinated but uninfected people were significantly more likely to have a “breakthrough” COVID infection than people who had previously been infected and recovered from the disease.

“This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant,” the authors conclude."


It's all about the science. While natural immunity may well be superior and longer lasting than a vaccine the science says that having the vaccine is necessary and most beneficial to society as a whole. Granted, we're talking about political science here rather than medical science but we just can't trust medical scientists not named Fauci to give us the right answers. Besides, science is science and whether we're talking about the political kind of science or the medical kind of science or the atmospheric kind of science the key is that it's all science.

Besides, it's all Trump's fault.
 
It's all about the science. While natural immunity may well be superior and longer lasting than a vaccine the science says that having the vaccine is necessary and most beneficial to society as a whole. Granted, we're talking about political science here rather than medical science but we just can't trust medical scientists not named Fauci to give us the right answers. Besides, science is science and whether we're talking about the political kind of science or the medical kind of science or the atmospheric kind of science the key is that it's all science.

Besides, it's all Trump's fault.
Bingo! It's politics. You win.
 
I would be OK with those who have proof of an appropriate level of antibodies not having to be vaccinated. Of course that would have to be revalidated yearly or whatever the period of time it is that is recommended. Same with the vaccinated, they will need to prove they had received their boosters once recommended. Personally, I don't think it will come to an annual revalidation. I think once we get this down to an endemic level things will level off.
 
It's all about the science. While natural immunity may well be superior and longer lasting than a vaccine the science says that having the vaccine is necessary and most beneficial to society as a whole. Granted, we're talking about political science here rather than medical science but we just can't trust medical scientists not named Fauci to give us the right answers. Besides, science is science and whether we're talking about the political kind of science or the medical kind of science or the atmospheric kind of science the key is that it's all science.

Besides, it's all Trump's fault.

Is this an example of you following your own advice?

It seems to me that maybe you are placing your political priorities ahead of your compassion for fellow humans.

Over 660,000 in the ground, way more than needed to, and there you are actively spreading CTs....which of course always centered around Lutherf being the victim of meanyhead librul plotters.

Is it that you simply do not care, or did you actually want this result? Disgusting in the extreme.



But hey, when have I seen a righteous or even minimally uplifting post from you? It's always an ugly game.
 
... the political libertarianism does not excuse one from his obligations to society.
 
... the political libertarianism does not excuse one from his obligations to society.

If it's "political", then you mean obligations to the state. Naturally you don't say that, because you don't want to sound like Hitler or Mussolini, but that's what you mean.
 
It's all about the science. While natural immunity may well be superior and longer lasting than a vaccine the science says that having the vaccine is necessary and most beneficial to society as a whole. Granted, we're talking about political science here rather than medical science but we just can't trust medical scientists not named Fauci to give us the right answers. Besides, science is science and whether we're talking about the political kind of science or the medical kind of science or the atmospheric kind of science the key is that it's all science.

Besides, it's all Trump's fault.
Since the OP's study is yet to be peer reviewed, its findings still have to follow the process before any conclusions are drawn one way or the other. From a pandemic management perspective, it would still come down to proving a person has had the virus, which is through a serology test or a prior diagnosis by a doctor.
 
Makes no sense to me. Why force people with natural and possibly superior immunity to be vaccinated with a new and controversial vaccine?


"The Israeli researchers discovered that immunity acquired through infection from COVID-19 is superior to immunity from the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine. The study also found that fully-vaccinated but uninfected people were significantly more likely to have a “breakthrough” COVID infection than people who had previously been infected and recovered from the disease.

“This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant,” the authors conclude."



I'm not at all for forcing people to vaccinate. So, it's not that I disagree with what you said - it's only that there is more to what you said.

Any time you are exposed to a pathogen (antigen) your body responds with natural immunity - which is a great and strong way to confer immunity. But, each and every time your body is exposed to that antigen the defense to that antigen is faster and stronger than each previous exposure. The body doesn't care if that is an exposure from in the community Home Depot or if it is from a vaccine dose. Each exposure will result in stronger immunity - with the only qualifier to that is that the individual's immune system is working.

When you are first exposed to a pathogen (antigen) your body produces not only antibodies but memory immune cells that - shall I say - lay dormant in the body until the antigen is detected in the body again. When it is, these antigen specific memory cells jump into action and this time they are stronger and faster in their response.

This is a really simplified version because there are many components and nuances to immunity.

That is why it is okay for someone with natural immunity to get the vaccine IF THEY CHOOSE TO get the vaccine. Otherwise most will continue to build their natural immunity every time they have an exposure.
 
I would be OK with those who have proof of an appropriate level of antibodies not having to be vaccinated. Of course that would have to be revalidated yearly or whatever the period of time it is that is recommended. Same with the vaccinated, they will need to prove they had received their boosters once recommended. Personally, I don't think it will come to an annual revalidation. I think once we get this down to an endemic level things will level off.
If Biden said vaccine or proof of natural immunity I'd be less critical but he ignores natural immunity altogether.
 
1. Israel study itself shows that natural immunity + vaccine is clearly better than just natural immunity. So by vaccinating you are still ADDING to community protection.

2. Israel study contrasts vs other studies that had shown that vaccine immunity is better than natural. More studies are needed to settle the question whether natural immunity is superior or inferior

3. Israel study is 1 data point (and yes, not peer reviewed one). It has a number of limitations that may affect policy as well.

4. Vaccine generated immunity is more level and predictable. Natural immunity is much less - some people get good one; others almost none.

5. How do you decide when your natural immunity is good enough to not get vaccines?

5a. E.g. say you had covid a year ago. Does it mean you would not benefit from vaccine now? Most likely you would benefit greatly as natural immunity (just like vaccine one) DOES wane.

5b. You say you had covid but many people say it but they did not really have a test. Or they had a test but it's not a good one. Or it's a good one but it still gave a false positive.

5c. Those suggesting relying on antibody tests - per CDC AND FDA, you should NOT rely on antibody tests to show any level of protection from the virus. It is NOT clear whether having antibodies will actually protect you or not. So, no, it's not as simple as testing for antibodies and their level to decide.
 
1. Israel study itself shows that natural immunity + vaccine is clearly better than just natural immunity. So by vaccinating you are still ADDING to community protection.

2. Israel study contrasts vs other studies that had shown that vaccine immunity is better than natural. More studies are needed to settle the question whether natural immunity is superior or inferior

3. Israel study is 1 data point (and yes, not peer reviewed one). It has a number of limitations that may affect policy as well.

4. Vaccine generated immunity is more level and predictable. Natural immunity is much less - some people get good one; others almost none.

5. How do you decide when your natural immunity is good enough to not get vaccines?

5a. E.g. say you had covid a year ago. Does it mean you would not benefit from vaccine now? Most likely you would benefit greatly as natural immunity (just like vaccine one) DOES wane.

5b. You say you had covid but many people say it but they did not really have a test. Or they had a test but it's not a good one. Or it's a good one but it still gave a false positive.

5c. Those suggesting relying on antibody tests - per CDC AND FDA, you should NOT rely on antibody tests to show any level of protection from the virus. It is NOT clear whether having antibodies will actually protect you or not. So, no, it's not as simple as testing for antibodies and their level to decide.

@Chainsawmassacre
Naturally acquired immunity will NOT provide a guarantee against later and more aggressive variant mutations of the virus.
If that truly was the case, it would not be necessary to get new flu shots every year.
This is a well known fact, and if you're buying the crap that "Doctor" Mercola fed you that says otherwise, you're a believer in pseudoscience.
That's why it "makes no sense to you".
 

1. Israel study itself shows that natural immunity + vaccine is clearly better than just natural immunity. So by vaccinating you are still ADDING to community protection.

2. Israel study contrasts vs other studies that had shown that vaccine immunity is better than natural. More studies are needed to settle the question whether natural immunity is superior or inferior

3. Israel study is 1 data point (and yes, not peer reviewed one). It has a number of limitations that may affect policy as well.

4. Vaccine generated immunity is more level and predictable. Natural immunity is much less - some people get good one; others almost none.

5. How do you decide when your natural immunity is good enough to not get vaccines?

5a. E.g. say you had covid a year ago. Does it mean you would not benefit from vaccine now? Most likely you would benefit greatly as natural immunity (just like vaccine one) DOES wane.

5b. You say you had covid but many people say it but they did not really have a test. Or they had a test but it's not a good one. Or it's a good one but it still gave a false positive.

5c. Those suggesting relying on antibody tests - per CDC AND FDA, you should NOT rely on antibody tests to show any level of protection from the virus. It is NOT clear whether having antibodies will actually protect you or not. So, no, it's not as simple as testing for antibodies and their level to decide.
More studies are also needed on the vaccine itself. The FDA was under tremendous political pressure to give the OK to the vaccine and bypassed standard procedures. Several top FDA employees have resigned over this.
Natural immunity has a place in the discussion of mandates. Why should individuals with natural immunity be forced to take an unnecessary risk.
 
So Fauci himself says we really dont have a good answer as to why people with natural immunity would need the vaccine. Really a breath of fresh air for him to say he doesn't have an answer instead of making confident pronouncements that turn out to be disastrously wrong.

Vaccines for the previously infected are a desired mandate looking for a need.
 
More studies are also needed on the vaccine itself. The FDA was under tremendous political pressure to give the OK to the vaccine and bypassed standard procedures. Several top FDA employees have resigned over this.
Natural immunity has a place in the discussion of mandates. Why should individuals with natural immunity be forced to take an unnecessary risk.

We are all part of the largest clinical trial of a vaccine in the history of man. Clinical trials should always be voluntary.
 
More studies are also needed on the vaccine itself. The FDA was under tremendous political pressure to give the OK to the vaccine and bypassed standard procedures.

No. It did not bypass anything for Pfizer vaccine. And since then we've had even more data.

Several top FDA employees have resigned over this.

I heard that about boosters. I did not hear that about vaccines themselves.

Natural immunity has a place in the discussion of mandates. Why should individuals with natural immunity be forced to take an unnecessary risk.

I explained in the post to which you replied. Things may change as more data and studies come out on natural immunity, but from what we know so far, it makes sense.
 
We are all part of the largest clinical trial of a vaccine in the history of man. Clinical trials should always be voluntary.

Cute. But not true. Trials are done. And a lot of doses distributed since then.

So Fauci himself says we really dont have a good answer as to why people with natural immunity would need the vaccine.

Link?
 
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