Why Should I Be Forced to Play Along with the Delusions of Others?

[The Baron]

In terms of who uses your restrooms, you can be as arbitrary as you like with your guests as that touches on your own privacy in your home.

Elsewhere, it's going to be up to whoever is in charge of those restrooms, and there's a variety of approaches. Where do you land on unisex single-seat restrooms? Seems appropriate for schools anyhow, to me.

We aren't really looking to change much of anything, as I expect trans people have generally been using their preferred restroom the entire time. How would we know, in the majority of cases?

No one is forcing you to teach your grandkids anything. For them, trans folk will likely just be something they are aware of and not a big deal. Like how a generation ago a divorce or marrying an Italian was a big deal, and today it would just be a confusing thing to object to, for most.

I’ve no issue with unisex, single-seat restrooms. That describes every restroom in my home.

And I think you are looking to make vast changes--specifically to our society and the norms and morals that is accepted by society at large. Teaching our young people--including my grandchildren--what constitutes “normal” acceptable behavior.

Isn’t that what all the fuss is really about?

 

[maquiscat]

Hardly. My assumption is that we are discussing people who are physically fine (absent any birth defect) and think they have been born with the wrong plumbing. Caitlyn Jenner is a perfect example. Once a world-class athlete and gold medal winner at the Olympics and set three world records! Nothing was physically wrong with him. He just thought he was a woman.

Are you sure there is nothing physically wrong with him? Can you provide a DNA workup to show that (s)he does not have any number of conditions that could cause genetics and genitals to be mismatched or that they are not a chimera. You assume Jenner is physically normal, but you have no proof of it.

 

[maquiscat]

Why be polite when you can be an offensive gasbag?

As much as I disagree with Baron's position, this is an ad hom fallacy. Do you have an actual counter to his arguments?

 

[maquiscat]

Well, the same reasoning applies to trans folk.

Call them what they want, or acknowledge that the intent is to actively offend them.

No one should be forced to behave morally (adults, anyhow.) It makes it easier for those without morals to hide amongst us.

You missed what he said. For all that he doesn't accept that a trans woman is an actual woman (vs male or female), he will still refer to a trans woman by the female pronouns and chosen name.

 

[maquiscat]

You’ll never answer mine.

She did ask her question first.

 

[WillyPete]

I’ve no issue with unisex, single-seat restrooms. That describes every restroom in my home.

And I think you are looking to make vast changes--specifically to our society and the norms and morals that is accepted by society at large. Teaching our young people--including my grandchildren--what constitutes “normal” acceptable behavior.

Isn’t that what all the fuss is really about?

You're the one fussin', so I'll have to take your word for it.

You're position appears to be regressing. I see in another post you're opposed to gay marriage, and here you don't want outsiders to influence what your grandkids think is normal? Good luck.

What, ultimately, do you feel is society's correct attitude toward homosexual/trans folk?

 

[maquiscat]

That's delusional. People who attack others in restrooms will do so regardless of law and people who don't attack people in restrooms will not be driven to.

To springboard off you....

The common argument is that a person, usually a man, caught in the opposite restroom doing wrong, will supposedly used the excuse that they are allowed to be there. But here is the proof of the falsity of the argument. If a cis woman in the women's restroom were to be caught peeking at others or sexually assaulting another, would the excuse that they are allowed in the women's restroom prevent any type of legal repercussions?

 

[maquiscat]

I’ve no issue with unisex, single-seat restrooms. That describes every restroom in my home.

And I think you are looking to make vast changes--specifically to our society and the norms and morals that is accepted by society at large. Teaching our young people--including my grandchildren--what constitutes “normal” acceptable behavior.

Isn’t that what all the fuss is really about?

Do you teach your daughters and grand daughters that they can achieve whatever they want? To be an astronaut or a business owner or a politician, etc?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

She did ask her question first.

It’s not in good faith and mine is more directly relevant anyway.

The argumentative style of nearly all leftists is to make insane claims or hint towards them, then when confronted claim they’re being misrepresented, then when asked to solidly state an unambiguous position they refuse. This is on full display here

 

[The Baron]

You're the one fussin', so I'll have to take your word for it.

You're position appears to be regressing. I see in another post you're opposed to gay marriage, and here you don't want outsiders to influence what your grandkids think is normal? Good luck.

I know. Right?

What, ultimately, do you feel is society's correct attitude toward homosexual/trans folk?

This is America and I'm quite Jeffersonian in such matters, "If it neither breaks my leg nor picks my pocket, what difference does it make to me?" If gay folks want to have a ceremony and play house, that is their right.

Yet there is certainly more than a concerted effort in our society by some to marginalize people such as myself who believe in America's traditional values. There are more than a few examples in this thread alone.

While those with Liberal views on this subject would not tolerate me trying to force my views on them, there is certainly no hesitation to force their values upon myself and the rest of society.

 

[The Baron]

Do you teach your daughters and grand daughters that they can achieve whatever they want? To be an astronaut or a business owner or a politician, etc?

Unless you're going somewhere with this then you are more than a little off-topic.

 

[Luce]

As much as I disagree with Baron's position, this is an ad hom fallacy. Do you have an actual counter to his arguments?

The counter to his argument is there really are only two choices here.

 

[Luce]

It’s not in good faith and mine is more directly relevant anyway.

So what?

 

[maquiscat]

Unless you're going somewhere with this then you are more than a little off-topic.

I am going somewhere with this.

 

[Mr Person]

I have no problem calling a gay man a she if thats what he wants. Ive done it before. But Tran cannot FORCE you to believe they are a real girl. *shrugs* And people that are levering the whole "there is proof people are born in the wrong body" is just kinda sad, like I feel bad for them. Reminds me of Pinocchio without the ending.

^^
Notice how people spreading the bigotry and ugliness are always on about how they are supposedly doing it in response to a feeling being "forced" to do something? How they've always just got to be the victim in their stories?

They're being made to do it?

 

[WillyPete]

This is America and I'm quite Jeffersonian in such matters, "If it neither breaks my leg nor picks my pocket, what difference does it make to me?" If gay folks want to have a ceremony and play house, that is their right.

Except that's not true, as in post #300 you clearly say you do not accept gay marriage for religious reasons. That's the opposite of not caring.

Yet there is certainly more than a concerted effort in our society by some to marginalize people such as myself who believe in America's traditional values. There are more than a few examples in this thread alone.

While those with Liberal views on this subject would not tolerate me trying to force my views on them, there is certainly no hesitation to force their values upon myself and the rest of society.

Root around a bit, and I'm certain you'll find a traditional American value or two that you've discarded. Were the supporters of those values your victims?

 

[AGENT J]

It’s not in good faith and mine is more directly relevant anyway.

The argumentative style of nearly all leftists is to make insane claims or hint towards them, then when confronted claim they’re being misrepresented, then when asked to solidly state an unambiguous position they refuse. This is on full display here

you mean like you did in post 268? oooooops the lies and hypocrisy in your posts are exposed again LMAO
Lets watch that happen again!

 

[Lisa]

I don’t care and I don’t know any trans people. And so far one homosexual couple is demanding I accept their marriage which I don’t as the Scriptures state that marriage is between one man and one woman. It is, for the record, why I do not accept plural marriages either.

How does someone demand that you accept their marriage? What is that legal process?

 

[The Baron]

Except that's not true, as in post #300 you clearly say you do not accept gay marriage for religious reasons. That's the opposite of not caring.

To be certain, I don't care what two individuals do. None of my business. But I certainly reject any notion pushed on society at large that such a marriage is in any way comparable to traditional marriage.

Root around a bit, and I'm certain you'll find a traditional American value or two that you've discarded. Were the supporters of those values your victims?

I've no idea what you're talking about.

 

[The Baron]

How does someone demand that you accept their marriage? What is that legal process?

Legally? Well consider the case of Jack Phillips. He's hardly alone. But the idea that you can't be legally forced to accept a homosexual marriage is far from over.

 

[AGENT J]

Legally? Well consider the case of Jack Phillips. He's hardly alone. But the idea that you can't be legally forced to accept a homosexual marriage is far from over.

Nothing you stated her answeres the question, and nothing about the case of jack phillips shows anybody is legally forced to accept marriage LMAO
Try again

 

[WillyPete]

I've no idea what you're talking about.

I'm assuming that you support at least a few rights for women and aren't a proponent of slavery.

I don't suppose you see yourself as victimizing the people who felt those changes were an affront to America's traditional values.

 

[Lursa]

It’s not in good faith and mine is more directly relevant anyway.

Of course it's in good faith, you just dont like where your answer will lead. I said I wanted to know so I could continue the discussionbut of course I'm not surprised you dont want that,

The argumentative style of nearly all leftists is to make insane claims or hint towards them, then when confronted claim they’re being misrepresented, then when asked to solidly state an unambiguous position they refuse. This is on full display here

You are describing yourself. When it comes to insane, think about the people who believe that it's acceptable for a husband to rape their wife? Based on the word of a sky ghost...they choose to accept such a horror.

 

[Lisa]

Legally? Well consider the case of Jack Phillips. He's hardly alone. But the idea that you can't be legally forced to accept a homosexual marriage is far from over.

The law doesn't force you to do anything and how would be enforced if it was? Why does it seem that logical thought has become a threat to some people?

The law would have required him to serve them if they were married or otherwise. There is no obligation to provide a marriage license to a baker or other vendor when you are hiring them. Most of the time when you order a cake you are not yet married, so it would be impossible to do so.

Nobody gave a furry fig newton if he liked them, their sexuality, or their marriage. They wanted to buy a cake and he operates a bakery that sells cakes. They weren't asking to be liked and he was not required to like them or approve of anything except their payment for his services rendered.

 

[The Baron]

Are you sure there is nothing physically wrong with him? Can you provide a DNA workup to show that (s)he does not have any number of conditions that could cause genetics and genitals to be mismatched or that they are not a chimera. You assume Jenner is physically normal, but you have no proof of it.

Nor do I have any proof that Jenner's genitals were anything but healthy. My whole purpose behind this thread was discussing people who were physically "normal" and their desire to be something that they are not. To the very best of knowledge--and yours--Jenner fits that description.