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Why Republicans Refuse to Reconcile Themselves to Obamacare

wbcoleman

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This tribute to Nancy Pelosi explains almost all:

Speaker Pelosi bets House on health care reform - SFGate

In January’s darkest days, after Democrats had lost their filibuster-proof Senate majority, President Obama publicly hinted that he might vastly scale back his ambitions on health care, and top House Democrats all but declared the project dead. But House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said no.

“We will go through the gate,” she said. “If the gate is closed, we will go over the fence. If the fence is too high, we will pole vault in. If that doesn’t work, we will parachute in. But we are going to get health care reform passed for the American people.”

Today, thanks largely to a San Francisco Democrat driven by a profound faith in Catholicism and in the ideals of the Democratic Party, Democrats stand on the brink of enacting a $940 billion health care overhaul that they have dreamed of but failed to achieve for more than half a century.

Pelosi is gambling everything on what is expected to be a razor-thin vote: her speakership, Obama’s presidency, and the political careers of Democrats in swing districts. Polls show the public deeply divided and tilting against the legislation.

To all the men who have said that women don’t have the right stuff, that we’re chicken**** when the chips are down, you take back your words. Win or lose, Nancy Pelosi makes a mockery of the argument that women can’t play hardball and with heart.


This was political malpractice. This is not how you pass legislation in a democracy when you have good reason to believe the public is not behind you. Obamacare needs to be repealed in toto to send a message to BOTH parties that abuse of process is intolerable.
 

Montecresto

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Pelosi said you have to pass ACA to know what's in ACA. She still doesn't know, wouldn't understand it if she did read it and would have to have all the other material that it links to. It's a nightmare and all legislators depend on others to read it and write a summary that they then read, so they have to trust somebody else for what it says. Healthcare costs are going up!
 

Velvet Elvis

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See...when you're that out of touch with the citizens, you can pretty much make up anything you want. She might as well say "greek" is our official language.
 

wbcoleman

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What's the abuse you're referring to?

Are you aware of the steps Reid and Pelosi took to pass the scheme after Scott Brown took his seat, costing the Democrats their filibuster-proof majority in the Senate?
 

Montecresto

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Not for society's losers. The bums and dregs who'd rather pay the cable bill than the health insurance bill. It won't go up for them.


That is too true.
 

Greenbeard

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Are you aware of the steps Reid and Pelosi took to pass the scheme after Scott Brown took his seat, costing the Democrats their filibuster-proof majority in the Senate?

I'm familiar with how the law was passed.

The abuse of process I'm seeing is this normalization of the idea that a filibuster-proof majority should be necessary to pass legislation.
 

wbcoleman

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I'm familiar with how the law was passed.

The abuse of process I'm seeing is this normalization of the idea that a filibuster-proof majority should be necessary to pass legislation.

You may feel differently in January, 2015, and REALLY differently in January, 2017!
 

obvious Child

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“We will go through the gate,” she said. “If the gate is closed, we will go over the fence. If the fence is too high, we will pole vault in. If that doesn’t work, we will parachute in. But we are going to get health care reform passed for the American people.”

Poll: Republicans hate ‘Obamacare,’ but like most of what it does

"I recently mentioned that there’s yet another poll showing that most of the Affordable Care Act’s provisions are popular, even as the bill itself remained unpopular. That poll was from Reuters/Ipsos, and Greg Sargent smartly asked them for the crosstabs. Digging in, he found that the ironies go even deeper than that. It’s not just that most of the Affordable Care Act’s provisions are popular"

The funny thing about Obamacare is that it seems people don't like the overall package, but really do love many parts of it.

Most Americans oppose health law but like provisions | Reuters

It's not honest to say what you said when you start to look at how people view what makes up Obamacare.
 

Gonzo Rodeo

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The pre-existing conditions stuff, people like that. The youth vote and some parents even like the part about keeping their kids on their plans until age 26.

But people don't like massive rate hikes, nor the individual mandate "fine" (that was sold to the Supreme Court as "a tax"). They also don't like the implication that Federal government can tell us we HAVE TO buy something. Most of the debate surrounding this issue, and the bill in total, would never have cropped up if the administration and congressional Democrats had called this thing what it actually was from the get go - a tax and spend package. Only, instead of levying a direct tax of hundreds or thousands of dollars upon voters, they caused the system to increase costs on individuals already paying an arm and a leg.

Oh wait... but then we'd be having a very different debate. You know, the one about how Obama's version of "Read my lips" was just as flimsy as the original.
 

wbcoleman

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Poll: Republicans hate ‘Obamacare,’ but like most of what it does

"I recently mentioned that there’s yet another poll showing that most of the Affordable Care Act’s provisions are popular, even as the bill itself remained unpopular. That poll was from Reuters/Ipsos, and Greg Sargent smartly asked them for the crosstabs. Digging in, he found that the ironies go even deeper than that. It’s not just that most of the Affordable Care Act’s provisions are popular"

The funny thing about Obamacare is that it seems people don't like the overall package, but really do love many parts of it.

Most Americans oppose health law but like provisions | Reuters

It's not honest to say what you said when you start to look at how people view what makes up Obamacare.

Obamabots have been repeating this mantra for years, to little effect. It really isn't a big mystery that if you cherrypick a half dozen giveaways out of a 2,700 page scheme, they'll poll well. So what???
 

Montecresto

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The problem is that those same tactics are used by partisans from both parties. It's the weakness of partisan politics.
 

jaeger19

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Obamabots have been repeating this mantra for years, to little effect. It really isn't a big mystery that if you cherrypick a half dozen giveaways out of a 2,700 page scheme, they'll poll well. So what???

Out of curiosity.. have you read the ACA or are you just cherry picking?

I notice that you keep posting on threads regarding what the ACA is... but so far.. you haven't told me if you have read it.
 

Montecresto

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The ACA is a train wreck to read. Probably nobody on this board has read it. There are plenty of individuals, groups and societies that have produced summaries of pertinent sections to their interests and agendas but even reading them puts one at the disadvantage of having to trust the authors of such summaries. In the end, for most people, it boils down to, the Obama admin. And democratic leadership tend to say its good, so for the partisan democrat, its good. The GOP says its bad, so for the republican partisan it's bad.
 

wbcoleman

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Out of curiosity.. have you read the ACA or are you just cherry picking?

I notice that you keep posting on threads regarding what the ACA is... but so far.. you haven't told me if you have read it.

What do you mean, have I read it? I've looked at it, probably at least as hard as Barack Obama has. Nobody other than a legal specialist can profitably "read" the whole thing. We know that not a single representative or senator who voted it into existence has actually "read" it, so what is your point?
 

wbcoleman

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The ACA is a train wreck to read. Probably nobody on this board has read it. There are plenty of individuals, groups and societies that have produced summaries of pertinent sections to their interests and agendas but even reading them puts one at the disadvantage of having to trust the authors of such summaries. In the end, for most people, it boils down to, the Obama admin. And democratic leadership tend to say its good, so for the partisan democrat, its good. The GOP says its bad, so for the republican partisan it's bad.

This is, of course, one of the main reasons to advocate its repeal. Enacting this sort of fog cloud on any topic ought to be verboten.
 

Visbek

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The pre-existing conditions stuff, people like that. The youth vote and some parents even like the part about keeping their kids on their plans until age 26.
They like almost every individual provision. What half the public doesn't like is when you attach the word "Obama" to it.


people don't like massive rate hikes
That's not part of the law.

In addition, in 2012 health care insurance premiums had the smallest increase in 15 years -- 4% instead of 10% or 15%. Ratepayers are also getting refunds from insurers who spend too much on overhead.


nor the individual mandate "fine" (that was sold to the Supreme Court as "a tax")
SCOTUS pretty much came up with that on its own. The administration did not classify it as a tax.


They also don't like the implication that Federal government can tell us we HAVE TO buy something.
You have to buy car insurance, register your car and get it inspected if you want to drive it. If you want to build a home, there are all sorts of requirements about what you can and cannot do.


Most of the debate surrounding this issue, and the bill in total, would never have cropped up if the administration and congressional Democrats had called this thing what it actually was from the get go....
I really wish that was the case, as that would suggest the debate focused on policies.

However, it's very clear that most of the opposition is based on wildly incorrect ideas, such as calling it "Socialism," or claiming there would be "death panels," or that it would slash Medicare.
 

Visbek

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This is, of course, one of the main reasons to advocate its repeal...
What, that you're too lazy to actually read it? Or perhaps any legislation that requires a 10th grade education to understand it ought to be voted down, regardless of what it says? ;)

The reality is that the ACA was passed fair and square. If you want to talk about "inappropriate" and anti-democratic tactics, look into gerrymandering....
 

clownboy

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What, that you're too lazy to actually read it? Or perhaps any legislation that requires a 10th grade education to understand it ought to be voted down, regardless of what it says? ;)

The reality is that the ACA was passed fair and square. If you want to talk about "inappropriate" and anti-democratic tactics, look into gerrymandering....

Hilarious. You give guff about reading the legislation and then say it was "passed fair and square" when not one legislator read the entire bill before passage.
 

iliveonramen

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This tribute to Nancy Pelosi explains almost all:

Speaker Pelosi bets House on health care reform - SFGate

In January’s darkest days, after Democrats had lost their filibuster-proof Senate majority, President Obama publicly hinted that he might vastly scale back his ambitions on health care, and top House Democrats all but declared the project dead. But House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said no.

“We will go through the gate,” she said. “If the gate is closed, we will go over the fence. If the fence is too high, we will pole vault in. If that doesn’t work, we will parachute in. But we are going to get health care reform passed for the American people.”

Today, thanks largely to a San Francisco Democrat driven by a profound faith in Catholicism and in the ideals of the Democratic Party, Democrats stand on the brink of enacting a $940 billion health care overhaul that they have dreamed of but failed to achieve for more than half a century.

Pelosi is gambling everything on what is expected to be a razor-thin vote: her speakership, Obama’s presidency, and the political careers of Democrats in swing districts. Polls show the public deeply divided and tilting against the legislation.

To all the men who have said that women don’t have the right stuff, that we’re chicken**** when the chips are down, you take back your words. Win or lose, Nancy Pelosi makes a mockery of the argument that women can’t play hardball and with heart.


This was political malpractice. This is not how you pass legislation in a democracy when you have good reason to believe the public is not behind you. Obamacare needs to be repealed in toto to send a message to BOTH parties that abuse of process is intolerable.

That's why Republicans hate Pelosi...she actually gets things done and she's not on their side. I remember when Boehner lost a vote they were sure they could get the numbers they needed. When asked about it Pelosi was like "I've never not had the numbers".
 

GottaGo

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They like almost every individual provision. What half the public doesn't like is when you attach the word "Obama" to it.
Being forced to purchase something at the government's whim is abhorrent to most, mainly because of the path it will pave for the next thing the feel is 'for our good'.

That's not part of the law.

In addition, in 2012 health care insurance premiums had the smallest increase in 15 years -- 4% instead of 10% or 15%. Ratepayers are also getting refunds from insurers who spend too much on overhead.
Insurers did their rate hiking long before 2012, in respect to the future expense many of the ACA clauses will cause. Premiums will continue to go up, not go down as was 'promised' by the current administration.

Are you aware of how much the 'refund' is/has been? An average of $100.... which doesn't even come close to the money paid out in rate increases from the time the ACA was passed.

SCOTUS pretty much came up with that on its own. The administration did not classify it as a tax.
But they sure were willing to accept that status to make sure it got through SCOTUS, didn't they? Even after proclaiming it wasn't a tax, to make it pass.



You have to buy car insurance, register your car and get it inspected if you want to drive it. If you want to build a home, there are all sorts of requirements about what you can and cannot do.
But ONLY if you drive, and any number of Americans don't, so it's not applicable to all. The ACA is mandated for all breathing humans.....

I really wish that was the case, as that would suggest the debate focused on policies.

However, it's very clear that most of the opposition is based on wildly incorrect ideas, such as calling it "Socialism," or claiming there would be "death panels," or that it would slash Medicare.

It was a flag that the Democrats wanted planted, come hell or high water, even 'bribing' to make sure it passed. It was a half baked, incomplete, unread, dissonant attempt at 'fixing' something, when in reality, it 'fixes' nothing. It does not address the underlying causes of rising of healthcare, it only addresses who pays for it.
 

clownboy

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That's why Republicans hate Pelosi...she actually gets things done and she's not on their side. I remember when Boehner lost a vote they were sure they could get the numbers they needed. When asked about it Pelosi was like "I've never not had the numbers".

Wow, short memory alert. You seem to have forgotten Pelosi lied her way through the adoption of Obamacare. From the beginning to the end. You don't recall her promising to fight until it was single payer? She knew at the time single payer had already been taken off the table by the POTUS and the insurance companies. She didn't read the bill before voting on it either.

Republicans don't like Pelosi because she's a liar and a crook and a democrat.
 

ttwtt78640

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That's why Republicans hate Pelosi...she actually gets things done and she's not on their side. I remember when Boehner lost a vote they were sure they could get the numbers they needed. When asked about it Pelosi was like "I've never not had the numbers".

:lol: :doh Pelosi is "like" the minority leader precisely because she now lacks the numbers. :doh
 

iliveonramen

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Wow, short memory alert. You seem to have forgotten Pelosi lied her way through the adoption of Obamacare. From the beginning to the end. You don't recall her promising to fight until it was single payer? She knew at the time single payer had already been taken off the table by the POTUS and the insurance companies. She didn't read the bill before voting on it either.

Republicans don't like Pelosi because she's a liar and a crook and a democrat.

Yeah yeah..I'm sure you're broken hearted that we don't have a single payer system.

I'm sure Pelosi had no idea what was in the bill :roll:
 
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