Why recreational marijuana is dangerous

[Idiometer]

A good book was written this month about the subject. I am going to post the link from Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1...03663&linkId=5d5155131c3869cfbe4542965cbbbb67

This book is pure fear-mongering. Berenson has an agenda here that A. J. Anslinger would have loved. He cherry-picks science for the bits he can use, while removing context and leaving out the parts that don't fit his narrative, but would instead disprove his conclusions. Here is a very astute critique of Berenson's book, from your link:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-...iewpnt?ie=UTF8&ASIN=1982103663#R1PRN0PFBJKVIU

You may also find these helpful:

What Not To Tell Your Children: Five Things Alex Berenson Gets Wrong About Marijuana | Drug Policy Alliance

Click the Read the Whitepaper button to download a PDF of their report.

https://www.rollingstone.com/cultur...marijuana-tell-your-children-trolling-777741/

 

[Idiometer]

I don't hate any such thing. I see the widespread use of unprescribed psychotropic drugs as folly. And again, to draw the parallel, thalidomide was really good at curing nausea in pregnant women. But years later, we see the effects of it. You enjoy your marijuana as responsibly as you can, and I wish you and yours the best of health. I only hope that I am wrong and all my concerns and fears come to be unfounded.

I've been a pot smoker since 1966. I'm neither psychotic in any way or lazy/unachieving. I had a long and successful career in high tech. I suggest you're getting your information on cannabis from sources with a "keep up the prohibition" agenda.

Here's an interesting list of famous, very successful business people who use, or used in the past:

https://www.cheatsheet.com/money-career/successful-ceos-who-have-admitted-to-using-marijuana.html/

The last time we had a prohibition against a popular recreational drug (alcohol), we ended up with organized crime and income taxes.

 

[Idiometer]

You appear to be confusing my position, which is social conservatism, with libertarianism, Grand Mal. And I am not a libertarian. As I see it, personal freedom is simply an open road by which people can travel to lead their best lives and achieve their greatest happiness. But freedom can only be enjoyed by men and women possessed of virtuous hearts and a capacity for self-restraint. I believe Benjamin Franklin said it best:

“Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters.”

I do not want to be anyone's master, Grand Mal. I want people to master themselves and free themselves of their most base desires, lest we fall into a collective dissolution and dissipation so terrible that people will beg for a tyranny to restore social order.

Cannabis does NOT make one "corrupt and vicious." That isn't what Franklin meant at all.

Self-medicating is a very human need. Cannabis use is the least damaging physically, emotionally, and mentally of all drugs, legal and illegal. It doesn't make one angry or violent. It is not addictive, like other drugs including alcohol, nicotine, and caffeine. Cannabis actually has HEALTHY properties, just as wine does.

"All things in moderation, including moderation." -- Oscar Wilde

 

[Idiometer]

Give me a break my friend. Unless it is for medical purposes, smoking marijuana has nothing to do with personal freedom.

How does it not relate to personal freedom? We humans have always found substances to use in order to self-medicate, it's natural and normal. And how is it anyone's business, especially the government's, what I put in my body? I'm harming no one, so how is it anyone's concern but mine? If that isn't about personal freedom, nothing is.

 

[Bucky]

How does it not relate to personal freedom? We humans have always found substances to use in order to self-medicate, it's natural and normal. And how is it anyone's business, especially the government's, what I put in my body? I'm harming no one, so how is it anyone's concern but mine? If that isn't about personal freedom, nothing is.

So you don't mind doctors operating on you if you are high, your pilots operating planes stoned or police officers high as well?

 

[Keridan]

So you don't mind doctors operating on you if you are high, your pilots operating planes stoned or police officers high as well?

Yeah, cuz we are totally okay with these things being done drunk. We absolutely want no limits on when or where these folks might be stoned or age concerns or anything! Personally, I want my President stoned off his ass and eating a mile high pile of cheeseburgers while deciding whether or not to go to war with NK.

 

[Sampson Simpson]

It's not, more bull**** from anti-marijuana proponents, believed by holier than thou idiots

Don't talk about threat of violence with all the violence, rapes, deaths and disgusting behavior of humans under alcohol. or legal prescription drugs.

Compared to other drugs, pot is very safe. has medical benefits, mellows people out, doesn't lead to hangovers, loss of bodily control, blackouts, isn't physically addicting, etc.

I've smoked nearly daily for 25 years, got a BS, a PhD, good career, as has many people I know.

Meanwhile the people that say it is dangerous because there may be some side effects have no problem eating gobs of sugar, are probably overwieght, don't exercise, poor eating habits, and are harming themselves daily, so they really aren't concerned about negative health effects.

Everything can have negative health effects. Even exercising can lead to injuries and damage to the body.

 

[Idiometer]

Notice, I am not advocating making recreational marijuana use illegal. However, it is becoming easier and easier to consume marijuana in the form of edibles - cookies, lollipops coffee, etc. Not everyone likes smoking marijuana however if you make it more easily able to consume, you will see a lot more violence and dangerous activity involved with weed.

If kids are coming in class high without having to smoke it, it will have a very negative effect.

I know of no place that sells to anyone under 18. If kids are getting edibles, that's black market, which means mostly in states that have not legalized it. Both here in Colorado and in Washington and Oregon, legalization has resulted in dried up black markets, and teens are finding it difficult to obtain cannabis in any form.

If you really want something to worry about with teens, look at nicotine vaporizers. Use is on the rise, and some producers are using processes to increase the nicotine concentration. Similar to how Starbucks beefs up the caffeine content in their House Blend (which won't keep me from drinking it .. I love that stuff!).

Cannabis is not the enemy. It is not addictive, it is not a gateway drug, it has very helpful effects on our bodies, and no man ever smoked a doobie, then went home and beat his wife and kids. Unlike alcohol users, pot users generally use at home, and stay there, watching movies and eating snacks or ordering pizza. Unlike alcohol users, por users don't toke up, then go out driving under the influence. How many people were killed last year by drunk drivers? Versus how many killed by pot using drivers?

 

[Sampson Simpson]

Question, If you have kids, or pretend you do have kids.

Would you be okay if your kids smoked pot? Would you allow it in your household?

the level of dumb from the right wing trolls on this forum is absolutely ridiculous.

Do you want your kids to have sex, drink coffee, drink alcohol, drive, etc etc etc? Talking about kids is irrelevant, marijuana use like many things are for adults

 

[Sampson Simpson]

Two things:

1. If you experienced psychotic episodes using cannabis, you're unique in that. I suspect an existing psychological issue. What most people feel is a nice, temporary euphoria.

2. Edibles can be unreliable as to actual dosage. For example, I bought a common brand of chocolate bar, sold in most dispensaries, thinking the dosages in such a popular brand would be even. I ate two small squares, got a mild high that lasted about two hours. Next time, from the same chocolate bar, I ate two squares again, then went in to watch a movie. I felt nothing for more than an hour and a half, then by the time the movie ended, I was so high that I had to sit in my car, drinking water, for an hour before I could even think of driving the two miles home. I'm a control freak, and won't use edibles for that reason.

I recommend starting with a small vape, one puff at a time.

Although you can't die from eating too much pot, you most certainly can feel like you are dying. My friend didn't dose right and made a tea and he said it was the worse experience, basically gives an anxiety attack if you take too much. So I'm always careful to take smaller doses and then just add more when I know what the strength is going to be. Made a few batches recently of my own for the first time, doses were perfect

 

[Bucky]

the level of dumb from the right wing trolls on this forum is absolutely ridiculous.

Do you want your kids to have sex, drink coffee, drink alcohol, drive, etc etc etc? Talking about kids is irrelevant, marijuana use like many things are for adults

Kids legally cannot drive or drink alcohol.

 

[Idiometer]

I don't need more research. Marijuana had been used as medicine for years before it was turned into a racist, political tool. I'm 100% on board with legalization for recreational use as well, and I'm convinced the ONLY reason it's not is big pharma. Can't patent a plant... Furthermore, I feel strongly that people should have a choice how they wish to medicate. Personally, I'd take a plant over a lab-created chemical cocktail any day. After two motorcycle accidents, my brother struggles with opioid addiction. I watched my mother go through opiod withdrawals in the 90's after her doc had her on them for 3 months after a serious car accident. She's afraid of them now, with good reason. Our opioid crisis is a DIRECT result of pharmaceutical companies preying on Americans with the blessing of the FDA.

Aside from my anecdotal evidence, check this out:

https://drugabuse.com/legalizing-marijuana-decreases-fatal-opiate-overdoses/

According to the American Academy of Pain Medicine, more than 100 million Americans suffer from chronic pain. In an effort to relieve that constant pain, the number of opiate prescriptions has nearly doubled over the last decade. Today, opiates like hydrocodone, oxycodone, and morphine flood the streets, driving up addiction rates and fatal opiate overdoses.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has officially labeled the problem an “opiate epidemic.” As experts scramble to come up with a plan that combats the nation’s dependence on opiates, a new study published last week in the journal JAMA Internal Medicine indicates medical marijuana might be the key.

Over the past two decades, deaths from drug overdoses have become the leading cause of injury death in the United States. In 2011, 55 percent of drug overdose deaths were related to prescription medications; 75 percent of those deaths involved opiate painkillers. However, researchers found that opiate-related deaths decreased by approximately 33 percent in 13 states in the following six years after medical marijuana was legalized.

“The striking implication is that medical marijuana laws, when implemented, may represent a promising approach for stemming runaway rates of nonintentional opioid-analgesic-related deaths,” wrote opiate abuse researchers Dr. Mark S. Brown and Marie J. Hayes in a commentary published alongside the study.

Getting Down to the Numbers

Researchers looked at medical marijuana laws and death certificate data in all 50 states between the years of 1999 and 2010. During that time, only 13 states had medical marijuana laws in place. Researchers quickly noticed that the rates of fatal opioid overdoses were significantly lower in states that had legalized medical marijuana. In 2010 alone, states with legalized medical marijuana saw approximately 1,700 fewer opiate-related overdose deaths.

“We found there was about a 25 percent lower rate of prescription painkiller overdose deaths on average after implementation of a medical marijuana law,” lead study author Dr. Marcus Bachhuber said.

Marijuana and Chronic Pain

About 60 percent of the nation’s fatal opioid overdoses occur among patients who have legitimate prescriptions for their medications. In states where medical marijuana is legal, however, a legitimate opiate user is able to significantly decrease his or her dosage, making overdose less likely.

Currently, 23 states and the District of Columbia have passed medical marijuana laws. Use of medicinal cannabis is approved for a number of conditions, including cancer, HIV, multiple sclerosis, and glaucoma. Despite the diagnosis, medical marijuana is primarily used to relieve chronic or severe pain. It’s that pain-relieving effect that decreases the number of fatal opioid overdoses.

Major Pain-Relieving Components of Cannabis

In a 2011 study published in the journal Clinical Pharmacology & Therapeutics, researchers suggest the following medical marijuana components offer pain-relieving properties:

Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol (Delta-9 THC)
Cannabidiol (CBD)
Cannabinol (CBN)
Tetrahydrocannabivarin (THCV)




P.S. And never, have I ever heard of anyone becoming violent on marijuana. I'd like to see more research/facts on this.

I read that report. I've had a medical use card for years. I get migraines, and a heavy indica plus a cold compress across the forehead are my "cure." Plus I have a bad knee, a previously broken ankle and elbow, all on my left side. Getting old is not for sissies.

 

[Idiometer]

No need for glib flippancy. We will certainly know more in the coming decades. As the OP suggests, it is clear that simply giving vulnerable young developing minds unprescribed psychotropic drugs is indeed causing some harm. One does not have to fully-subscribe to the hyperbolic exaggerations of Reefer Madness to understand that giving someone untested mind-altering chemicals can have serious and severe side effects, some of which may be permanent. You may think the danger is nonexistent or overstated. I think we have moved too fast on this issue of decriminalization and legalization.

What more will we know about the long term effects than we already know, with millions of decades-long users still thriving? If you want to know something specific, just ask me. I'm open to any honest and civil discussion on this topic.

 

[Idiometer]

I quit pot years ago. Didn't much care for the paranoia. That was my preference, though.

Over and over again extended studies show no strong evidence of lasting harm. Even the biased articles you posted have to do some fun gymnastics to tie pot use to violence and they largely fail to pull it off. States that have legalized pot use, counties that always had it legal and any other example show no real link to societal problems. Nothing that even pretends to come close to alcohol, which is considered a normal thing to enjoy after dinner and after the age of 18 (21 legally)

We live in a free society. We don't need reasons to make it legal, we need real reasons to make it illegal. It has to be shown to cause harm to others, not the smoker. It being illegal does more damage than good, for certain. So many "crimes" would not be a problem if we just used common sense and made it legal. People wouldn't act like idiots trying to get their hands on it. Not to mention the fortune we waste hunting, prosecuting and imprisoning harmless members of society.

If we legalized, taxed, and regulated all drugs, the government could triple spending on programs to help addicts and sill end up with a surplus to help other programs. We would actually have some control over the age of users instead of dealers not caring that their best customer base shows up when high school gets out. Deaths from bad batches of drugs would plummet since we could easily enforce quality controls on manufacturers.

I have two young sons. Before they get into trouble, I will teach them how to drink and how to stop. I will teach them how to handle weed and how to see if it is hurting their lives. I won't condone use at all, but I will make it clear that I prefer such things happen at home and with my knowledge. It will help me keep them safe. I will do my best to raise them so they never actually use drugs, but statistics say it will take a lot of luck and love to keep them clean all their lives.

What our government is doing now is not working. There is an obvious and easy better way. It also has the side effect of making studies easier to conduct when the participants aren't hiding things and paying for it with tax revenues from those same drugs.

I know this is a long post and I appreciate those who took the time to read it. It's silly that these talking points aren't incredibly well known and get ignored by those in power.

Good night, all!

That approach you describe for dealing with your children: it certainly worked for me. And when my son was young, like 12, there was no internet or world wide web. We had to go to the library. He learned how to use that old card catalog! Anyway, he's not much of a drinker to this day, he does use cannabis pretty regularly, and he's a good man, smart and funny and hard working.

 

[OlNate]

I think there needs to be a clear establishment that supporting medical marijuana is different than supporting recreational marijuana. Marijuana is a drug, it isn't candy. As more and more research is being done, higher-potency marijuana is potentially harmful to our mental health leading to paranoia, psychosis, and schizophrenia:



https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/317170.php

There is also possible evidence that marijuana can increase violence:





https://www.motherjones.com/politic...ur-children-marijuana-crime-mental-illness-1/

Overall I think more research needs to be done. There is also not enough evidence that marijuana is more effective or less addictive as a pain killer than opiates.

That people are made to think that taking unprescribed mind-altering drugs that radically shift one's mental state without any lasting side effects whatsoever is the height of folly. I think twenty to thirty years hence, those of us still alive and our descednants will look back on these days of the freeing up of recreational marijuana use with the same horror that we look back at the years of the heavy prescribing of thalidomide, and the suffering and misery that it caused.

Good grief, the fear mongering, though. What you both fail to realize is that recent prohibition (in the context of 5000+ years of documented use) has failed completely, huge numbers of people have used pot forever, and society hasn't collapsed as a result. I think you need to stop watching old Reefer Madness movies, head somewhere that is a little more liberal about these things, and try it for yourself. You'll very quickly see that it's not a big deal.

Don't believe the hype, guys. Everything's gonna be alright.

 

[Idiometer]

So you don't mind doctors operating on you if you are high, your pilots operating planes stoned or police officers high as well?

Where did I advocate for anyone to use any substance while working? Please tell me how I gave you that idea. What a ridiculous conclusion. If you want to know what I am or am not okay with, ask me. Don't guess or assume.

 

[Idiometer]

Although you can't die from eating too much pot, you most certainly can feel like you are dying. My friend didn't dose right and made a tea and he said it was the worse experience, basically gives an anxiety attack if you take too much. So I'm always careful to take smaller doses and then just add more when I know what the strength is going to be. Made a few batches recently of my own for the first time, doses were perfect

I'm going to stick with the basic little vape I bought recently. I'm in need of portion control, and you cannot predict the results from edibles unless you make them yourself.

 

[Idiometer]

Kids legally cannot drive or drink alcohol.

They can't legally smoke pot and drive, either. What was your point?

 

[<alt>doxygen]

I'm going to stick with the basic little vape I bought recently. I'm in need of portion control, and you cannot predict the results from edibles unless you make them yourself.

I use(d) tinctures since I don't like inhaling hot gas, which even vaping requires. You can easily control dose that way, as long as you have clearly and accurately labeled product. Downside is that there isn't nearly the variety of strains available as with other preperations, and it stays in your system a lot longer (that can be both good and/or bad).

I also generally prefer strong indicas for pain. We don't have a lot of variety here in FL yet, but I've had good results with 9lb Hammer. Blue Dream is more to the sativa side, but it's been pretty good to me. All in all, I think using anything mind-altering should be done as sparingly as possible.

 

[OlNate]

I'm going to stick with the basic little vape I bought recently. I'm in need of portion control, and you cannot predict the results from edibles unless you make them yourself.

Agreed. I'm a medicinal user, vaporizers are the best way to get your dose right, not to mention compare which strains treat your issue best, due to being able to compare effects between the exact same quantity. And let's be honest...if you're a daily medical user, you don't want to go Cheech and Chong every day...it gets a little much. Being able to hit the Goldilocks zone fairly consistently is a big part of making pot effective medicine.

 

[Idiometer]

Agreed. I'm a medicinal user, vaporizers are the best way to get your dose right, not to mention compare which strains treat your issue best, due to being able to compare effects between the exact same quantity. And let's be honest...if you're a daily medical user, you don't want to go Cheech and Chong every day...it gets a little much. Being able to hit the Goldilocks zone fairly consistently is a big part of making pot effective medicine.

Cheech and Chong ... they wouldn't b e allowed to make that movie today.

Cheech: "Hey man, am I driving okay, man?"

Chong: "Uh ... I think we're parked, man."

 

[Grand Mal]

I am trying to put the facts back in focus. For decades the tobacco industry was lying to the public saying their products were safe. Are you denying that smoking cigarettes is dangerous?

The marijuana industry is just a deceitful.

Seen a lot of ads for pot products? On bus stop benches, on your online news sites, maybe commercials on radio and TV? How do you say "the marijuana industry(?)" is deceiving people?

 

[Grand Mal]

Kids legally cannot drive or drink alcohol.

Nor can they use pot. Right?

 

[Bucky]

Seen a lot of ads for pot products? On bus stop benches, on your online news sites, maybe commercials on radio and TV? How do you say "the marijuana industry(?)" is deceiving people?

All the time yes. My neighborhood has been bombarded by pot stores.

 

[Grand Mal]

All the time yes. My neighborhood has been bombarded by pot stores.

'Deceiving people'. How is the 'industry' deceiving people?
Lemme guess- this is just like the global warming thing and special interest groups are paying research scientists to falsify their findings. Am I close?