Why "Pride?"

[CriticalThought]

Because they are victims, which is at the top of the food chain in victim culture, AKA is cool.

I will never view myself as a victim. I guess standing up for yourself and not being ashamed of yourself may look like that to some people, but that probably says more about them than me.

 

[Hawkeye10]

I will never view myself as a victim. I guess standing up for yourself and not being ashamed of yourself may look like that to some people, but that probably says more about them than me.

The great thing about victim culture is that one does not need view themselves as a victim to play a victim for the crowds. Gay Pride and Slut Walk are celebratory victims marches, wearing the costume of outrage.

 

[Andalublue]

I'm not proud of being homosexual. It's just who and how I am. I'm very proud to be gay, which isn't the same thing at all. I'm proud to believe that living a life being open about who I am and who I love is a good thing. I'm proud of all those pioneers and yes, martyrs who fought anti-LGBT hatred and discrimination. I'm proud to have played a very minor role in that myself, and I'm proud of those friends and comrades, both gay and straight, who saw the value of that struggle.

LGBT Pride is about more than just not being ashamed of your own nature. It's also about saying that society needed change, has changed and needs to change more, and I'm proud that drag queens, dykes, fairies, trannies and every other queer have laid their lives on the line to effect that change.

Do I worry that some straight people might be offended at the way we celebrate our pride and diversity? Not really. The whole 'think about the children' guilt-trip says more about the way in which some parents want to pretend to their kids that the world isn't really as it is, that men shouldn't wear make-up and dresses, that nudity is somehow something dirty and shameful, and sexuality should remain a taboo that they only learn about through anatomy classes and furtively through smutty mags and youporn.

 

[Hawkeye10]

I'm not proud of being homosexual. It's just who and how I am. I'm very proud to be gay, which isn't the same thing at all. I'm proud to believe that living a life being open about who I am and who I love is a good thing. I'm proud of all those pioneers and yes, martyrs who fought anti-LGBT hatred and discrimination. I'm proud to have played a very minor role in that myself, and I'm proud of those friends and comrades, both gay and straight, who saw the value of that struggle.

LGBT Pride is about more than just not being ashamed of your own nature. It's also about saying that society needed change, has changed and needs to change more, and I'm proud that drag queens, dykes, fairies, trannies and every other queer have laid their lives on the line to effect that change.

Do I worry that some straight people might be offended at the way we celebrate our pride and diversity? Not really. The whole 'think about the children' guilt-trip says more about the way in which some parents want to pretend to their kids that the world isn't really as it is, that men shouldn't wear make-up and dresses, that nudity is somehow something dirty and shameful, and sexuality should remain a taboo that they only learn about through anatomy classes and furtively through smutty mags and youporn.

Men will never change enough to suit the feminists no matter what we do, and non gays will never change enough to suit the gays.....Certified Victims almost never willfully give up the uniform or the act, and why would they?

 

[joG]

I'm not proud of being homosexual. It's just who and how I am. I'm very proud to be gay, which isn't the same thing at all. I'm proud to believe that living a life being open about who I am and who I love is a good thing. I'm proud of all those pioneers and yes, martyrs who fought anti-LGBT hatred and discrimination. I'm proud to have played a very minor role in that myself, and I'm proud of those friends and comrades, both gay and straight, who saw the value of that struggle.

LGBT Pride is about more than just not being ashamed of your own nature. It's also about saying that society needed change, has changed and needs to change more, and I'm proud that drag queens, dykes, fairies, trannies and every other queer have laid their lives on the line to effect that change.

Do I worry that some straight people might be offended at the way we celebrate our pride and diversity? Not really. The whole 'think about the children' guilt-trip says more about the way in which some parents want to pretend to their kids that the world isn't really as it is, that men shouldn't wear make-up and dresses, that nudity is somehow something dirty and shameful, and sexuality should remain a taboo that they only learn about through anatomy classes and furtively through smutty mags and youporn.

Though, I might differ in detail, I am quite d'accord with everything you say but for one thing.
When one starts to infringe on others' rights, it becomes difficult and being provocatively gleeful about destroying someone's livelihood, it is stupid and becomes self destructive. Sorrily this is the point at which gay pride now is and it is losing longstanding and stout supporters.

 

[joG]

The great thing about victim culture is that one does not need view themselves as a victim to play a victim for the crowds. Gay Pride and Slut Walk are celebratory victims marches, wearing the costume of outrage.

There is a disturbing amount of truth in that.

 

[Andalublue]

Men will never change enough to suit the feminists no matter what we do, and non gays will never change enough to suit the gays.....Certified Victims almost never willfully give up the uniform or the act, and why would they?

I think that's what the rancid traditionalists cannot get their head around; that Pride means a confirmed refusal to play the victim. We're here, we're queer. Live with it.

 

[Andalublue]

When one starts to infringe on others' rights, it becomes difficult and being provocatively gleeful about destroying someone's livelihood, it is stupid and becomes self destructive.

'Rights', whatever you mean by that term, are not always compatible. Sometimes one person's rights conflict with those of others. Living in a democratic society means finding a way to balance out those conflicting issues. Those rights you believe are threatened by 'the gay agenda' may in themselves threaten the life and liberty of others. Calling something a 'right' does not automatically make it sacrosanct.

 

[William Rea]

I'm not proud of being homosexual. It's just who and how I am. I'm very proud to be gay, which isn't the same thing at all. I'm proud to believe that living a life being open about who I am and who I love is a good thing. I'm proud of all those pioneers and yes, martyrs who fought anti-LGBT hatred and discrimination. I'm proud to have played a very minor role in that myself, and I'm proud of those friends and comrades, both gay and straight, who saw the value of that struggle.

LGBT Pride is about more than just not being ashamed of your own nature. It's also about saying that society needed change, has changed and needs to change more, and I'm proud that drag queens, dykes, fairies, trannies and every other queer have laid their lives on the line to effect that change.

Do I worry that some straight people might be offended at the way we celebrate our pride and diversity? Not really. The whole 'think about the children' guilt-trip says more about the way in which some parents want to pretend to their kids that the world isn't really as it is, that men shouldn't wear make-up and dresses, that nudity is somehow something dirty and shameful, and sexuality should remain a taboo that they only learn about through anatomy classes and furtively through smutty mags and youporn.

As someone later in life who is coming to terms with being in one of those categories, I do appreciate the sacrifices made.

 

[joG]

'Rights', whatever you mean by that term, are not always compatible. Sometimes one person's rights conflict with those of others. Living in a democratic society means finding a way to balance out those conflicting issues. Those rights you believe are threatened by 'the gay agenda' may in themselves threaten the life and liberty of others. Calling something a 'right' does not automatically make it sacrosanct.

That is rather trivial pratter, when one starts destroying businesses and livelihoods, because some jerk wants you to bake a cake.

 

[Andalublue]

That is rather trivial pratter, when one starts destroying businesses and livelihoods, because some jerk wants you to bake a cake.

I know you don't believe that the right not be discriminated against is any kind of right at all, but I do, and so do many, many others. Those 'destroyed businesses and livelihoods' would never have been threatened had those business owners not wanted to deprive others of their rights.

 

[Middleground]

Men will never change enough to suit the feminists no matter what we do, and non gays will never change enough to suit the gays.....Certified Victims almost never willfully give up the uniform or the act, and why would they?

You have not one iota of a clue what it feels like to be a minority/oppressed. Wanting to have equality does not mean one considers themselves 'victims.' They just want to be treated the same as your WASPy self.

 

[joG]

I know you don't believe that the right not be discriminated against is any kind of right at all, but I do, and so do many, many others. Those 'destroyed businesses and livelihoods' would never have been threatened had those business owners not wanted to deprive others of their rights.

Oh. No discrimination is an important right. But it is against government and not private persons. The principal there is free association.

 

[Andalublue]

Oh. No discrimination is an important right. But it is against government and not private persons. The principal there is free association.

Nonsense. I think if those businesses were to refuse service to black people, or white people even more so, you'd take a different view.

 

[TheGoverness]

Men will never change enough to suit the feminists no matter what we do, and non gays will never change enough to suit the gays.....Certified Victims almost never willfully give up the uniform or the act, and why would they?

What are you talking about? Non-gay people don't have to change to suit me, I just want to be treated like everyone else.

I don't want to be treated like ****, nor do I want to be treated like some delicate flower.

 

[Middleground]

Nonsense. I think if those businesses were to refuse service to black people, or white people even more so, you'd take a different view.

It wasn't that long ago where indeed it was black people who were refused service. Amazing to me that some Americans--born in a country dubbed the Melting Pot--are totally cool with oppressive history repeating itself.

 

[Henrin]

I know you don't believe that the right not be discriminated against is any kind of right at all, but I do, and so do many, many others. Those 'destroyed businesses and livelihoods' would never have been threatened had those business owners not wanted to deprive others of their rights.

How can it be a right though? How does anyone have the right to compel someone to serve them?

 

[Henrin]

Nonsense. I think if those businesses were to refuse service to black people, or white people even more so, you'd take a different view.

No? Ok, so you have to buy everything in the store and date everyone. You also have to shop at every store equally. No discrimination. I have a feeling your life is not going to be any fun.

I'm kind of curious how you think the right to association works. Why do you think it is only works in the positive? Why don't people have the right to not associate?

 

[Andalublue]

What are you talking about? Non-gay people don't have to change to suit me, I just want to be treated like everyone else.

I don't want to be treated like ****, nor do I want to be treated like some delicate flower.

See, the thing is, attitudes like those of Hawkeye are all about seeing LGBT, and women for that matter, as victims, as objects, as people that only exist in relation to straight men. What's important to them is what THEY do, how they relate to the 'other' and how their behaviour affects that 'other'. That's why they feel threatened by the LGBT movement, because "Hello, Snowflake! It's not all about you!"

Changing homophobic attitudes really isn't about challenging and defeating them in political debate. It's about patience. They're dying out with the older generation. For me, the focus has to be on equal treatment and anti-discrimination work to tackle the symptoms of homophobia. Get that right and the attitudinal shift will follow.

 

[Andalublue]

How can it be a right though? How does anyone have the right to compel someone to serve them?

Depends which right you believe is the more fundamental.

 

[Andalublue]

No? Ok, so you have to buy everything in the store and date everyone. You also have to shop at every store equally. No discrimination. I have a feeling your life is not going to be any fun.

I'm kind of curious how you think the right to association works. Why do you think it is only works in the positive? Why don't people have the right to not associate?

Doing business ≠ free association. Straw man argument.

 

[Henrin]

I'm not proud of being homosexual. It's just who and how I am. I'm very proud to be gay, which isn't the same thing at all. I'm proud to believe that living a life being open about who I am and who I love is a good thing. I'm proud of all those pioneers and yes, martyrs who fought anti-LGBT hatred and discrimination. I'm proud to have played a very minor role in that myself, and I'm proud of those friends and comrades, both gay and straight, who saw the value of that struggle.

LGBT Pride is about more than just not being ashamed of your own nature. It's also about saying that society needed change, has changed and needs to change more, and I'm proud that drag queens, dykes, fairies, trannies and every other queer have laid their lives on the line to effect that change.

Do I worry that some straight people might be offended at the way we celebrate our pride and diversity? Not really. The whole 'think about the children' guilt-trip says more about the way in which some parents want to pretend to their kids that the world isn't really as it is, that men shouldn't wear make-up and dresses, that nudity is somehow something dirty and shameful, and sexuality should remain a taboo that they only learn about through anatomy classes and furtively through smutty mags and youporn.

Yes, asking the LBGT community to be decent when they do their little pride whatever is just asking for too much. :roll:

 

[Henrin]

Doing business ≠ free association. Straw man argument.

How is taking part in trade of your property and labor not involving yourself in free association?

 

[joG]

You have not one iota of a clue what it feels like to be a minority/oppressed. Wanting to have equality does not mean one considers themselves 'victims.' They just want to be treated the same as your WASPy self.

People can really mess up their lives by worrying about the world and wishing one were somebody else, instead of getting on with their lives. This does not mean that activists cannot make a killing like a German feminust just hit for hiding over a million in taxes. And that is from someone that has belonged to a minority albeit one only relatively less privileged than some his whole life.

 

[Captain America]

Something has been bothering me. Perhaps it's my immunity towards this whole "gay" thing.

Why are gay people "proud" to be gay? I'm not "proud" to be straight. I never meet new people and announce whether or not I'm into men or women. I never wake up in the morning and think, "wow...thank God I'm straight!" I've never wanted to hold a meeting, party or gathering with sexual orientation in mind (Gay? Nope...can't show up. Only straight people invited).

Someone give me an unbiased answer on why ANYONE should be "proud" of their orientation, and rather just "be" gay or straight. Why is it anyone's business who's into whom or what? Why must it be public business?

I don't know. I hear what you are saying though.

I can only guess.

But I think it's a counter-balance measure. A ballast to keep a level.

For every effort made to demean, restrict, and black-list people of the gay persuasion, an equal effort must be made to uplift, validate and build a sense of "pride," among the people of said persuasion. Just to keep the playing field level.

I see nothing wrong with it myself. Everyone should have their pride and expect respect. That's not really too much to ask. I respect the gays and I do not feel I am any better or any worse than they are. I rather have gays for a neighbor than a bigoted homophobe. But, truth be told, I'd rather not have neighbors at all. LOL