Why "Pride?"

[TheGoverness]

But you'd still be gay.
Kind of like that bad joke- What do you call a black guy with a Phd, a Nobel prize, and a Pulitzer for his book explaining his science in lay terms?
Boy.

Nope, I can't pray the gay away, but hey I could lie about it. Instead of saying I'm gay, I could just say I'm European. ^-^

 

[nota bene]

:alert Whoop! Whoop! P.C. ALERT! :alert

"Normal" people? As opposed to....? :shock:

Just kidding, I know you didn't mean anything by it... Just ragging yah.

Of course, I didn't mean anything by it. I was specifically including both straights and gays as normal.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Something has been bothering me. Perhaps it's my immunity towards this whole "gay" thing.

Why are gay people "proud" to be gay? I'm not "proud" to be straight. I never meet new people and announce whether or not I'm into men or women. I never wake up in the morning and think, "wow...thank God I'm straight!" I've never wanted to hold a meeting, party or gathering with sexual orientation in mind (Gay? Nope...can't show up. Only straight people invited).

Someone give me an unbiased answer on why ANYONE should be "proud" of their orientation, and rather just "be" gay or straight. Why is it anyone's business who's into whom or what? Why must it be public business?

I don't think it's so much pride in being gay (trans, lesbian, etc). And I would agree with you that things inherent to us aren't things worth being "proud" of.

Pride's history is one of, basically, insurrection. It grew from the Stonewall riots. Although it has lost this in some places, Pride's intent is to be, well, defiant. Open and out in a culture that doesn't want them to be, doing a lot of front line activist work, etc.

That's the thing I think a lot of them are proud of. Getting LGBT rights to where they are has actually involved a ton of bloodshed -- overwhelmingly their own. Throughout the crises affecting the LGBT community, they've often be left to their own devices to control the damage -- and done an amazingly competent job considering their lack of resources.

I think the pride is more about the actions of community than about pride in their orientation itself.

As to why it's the public business? Well, because the public has forced it to be. The public is the one who passed laws against gays existing, inserted itself into gay people's family lives, denied trans people the ability to even pee in peace (these bathroom laws aren't from nowhere -- the vast majority of trans people have been assaulted or harassed in a bathroom).

What choice were they given, really?

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

I don't have one single problem with Gay Pride but I have a huge problem with Gay Pride Parades were guys are running around in drag and half naked acting with total sexuality. It is pathetic and undermines their whole message. It is also disgusting , and even if it were heterosexuals, not something that children should be around.

I've never seen someone acting with "total sexuality" at Pride. But what's wrong with drag? It's just costuming, basically. Most of the drag bits I've seen at Pride are also pretty toned down from what you might see at a gay bar. They're aware there are kids in the audience.

 

[CLAX1911]

Something has been bothering me. Perhaps it's my immunity towards this whole "gay" thing.

Why are gay people "proud" to be gay? I'm not "proud" to be straight. I never meet new people and announce whether or not I'm into men or women. I never wake up in the morning and think, "wow...thank God I'm straight!" I've never wanted to hold a meeting, party or gathering with sexual orientation in mind (Gay? Nope...can't show up. Only straight people invited).

Someone give me an unbiased answer on why ANYONE should be "proud" of their orientation, and rather just "be" gay or straight. Why is it anyone's business who's into whom or what? Why must it be public business?

Well many of us experience a lot of shame mostly in our youth. It seemed to be much more common in my youth.

There is a point in your life you choose not to be ashamed any more. If you're not ashamed you're proud. It's just an easier way to say "not ashamed anymore."

We have parents we belong to churches, family members and so forth at least in my experience did their best to make sure everybody knew that they thought gay people were perverted child molesters. And a 12 year old may not be able to know they are full of it. So you can understand where the shame comes from right?

You can understand not being ashamed any more so what is a good word for not ashamed?

 

[CLAX1911]

I don't have one single problem with Gay Pride but I have a huge problem with Gay Pride Parades were guys are running around in drag and half naked acting with total sexuality. It is pathetic and undermines their whole message. It is also disgusting , and even if it were heterosexuals, not something that children should be around.

What about Olympic diving?

 

[RAMOSS]

Something has been bothering me. Perhaps it's my immunity towards this whole "gay" thing.

Why are gay people "proud" to be gay? I'm not "proud" to be straight. I never meet new people and announce whether or not I'm into men or women. I never wake up in the morning and think, "wow...thank God I'm straight!" I've never wanted to hold a meeting, party or gathering with sexual orientation in mind (Gay? Nope...can't show up. Only straight people invited).

Someone give me an unbiased answer on why ANYONE should be "proud" of their orientation, and rather just "be" gay or straight. Why is it anyone's business who's into whom or what? Why must it be public business?

Like all movements that are similar, it is a reaction to discrimination. That is why you have the saint patties parades, and parades of other minorites. It is saying 'We reject we are lesser based on factor xyz'.

 

[Velvet Elvis]

Why is that?

Why is it that I'm "immune" to the whole thing? It's because I really don't see the big deal in it. I'm speaking for myself, of course. I really don't consider gay folks any different than anyone else. It's not like I waste my time and energy worrying about whether some gay dude is hitting on me. I don't really care who's into whom. I've known quite a few gay folks of both genders. I've been comfortable and secure around all of them. If they're sitting there sucking face, or groping each other, it's not the fact they're gay that bothers me. It's that they're doing it in an inappropriate time and place. That goes for straight folks who do the exact same thing. It's not a "who's doing it," but a "what they're doing." I understand the ignorance. I just don't subscribe to it.

Who said it has to be public business? If someone doesn't feel comfortable being open about that kind of stuff, then they don't have to. It's just that many gay people (like me) today aren't hiding the fact that they're gay anymore, nor are we ashamed for being gay. It's just a part of who we are as people, and there's no reason that we should be ashamed and put down by others because of that, y'know what I'm sayin'?

Again, I actually consider it a positive trait for gay folks to have the security not to hide who they are. I just don't understand why sexuality in general has to be such a defining issue among people.

I don't have one single problem with Gay Pride but I have a huge problem with Gay Pride Parades were guys are running around in drag and half naked acting with total sexuality. It is pathetic and undermines their whole message. It is also disgusting , and even if it were heterosexuals, not something that children should be around.

I understand what you're saying. I mean...ok...I get it...you're gay. Do you have to prance around in a gold lame speedo for me to know it? Why not just dress normally, like everyone else and wear something rainbow-colored? We just had the Komen breast cancer marathon here in town. Should all the cancer survivors have run with their tops off?

Are you proud of being American? Why?

I think nationality is different than sexuality.

We have parents we belong to churches, family members and so forth at least in my experience did their best to make sure everybody knew that they thought gay people were perverted child molesters. And a 12 year old may not be able to know they are full of it. So you can understand where the shame comes from right?

I get that completely. As I said previously, I consider it admirable for folks to find it in themselves to be secure in who they are despite the hate.

You can understand not being ashamed any more so what is a good word for not ashamed?

"Confident" would probably be a better word than "proud." Just my opinion.

 

[CLAX1911]

I just don't understand why sexuality in general has to be such a defining issue among people.

Who said it is?

I understand what you're saying. I mean...ok...I get it...you're gay. Do you have to prance around in a gold lame speedo for me to know it? Why not just dress normally, like everyone else and wear something rainbow-colored?

They do. The only time I wear a brief swim suit is at the pool. And I'm swimming.

We just had the Komen breast cancer marathon here in town. Should all the cancer survivors have run with their tops off?

If they want.

I get that completely. As I said previously, I consider it admirable for folks to find it in themselves to be secure in who they are despite the hate.


"Confident" would probably be a better word than "proud." Just my opinion.

The top antonym for "ashamed" is proud, not confident. Do why should we apply the improper word to it? Another antonym is unabashed.

So what is it about calling it what it is that sticks in your craw?

 

[TheGoverness]

Why is it that I'm "immune" to the whole thing? It's because I really don't see the big deal in it. I'm speaking for myself, of course. I really don't consider gay folks any different than anyone else. It's not like I waste my time and energy worrying about whether some gay dude is hitting on me. I don't really care who's into whom. I've known quite a few gay folks of both genders. I've been comfortable and secure around all of them. If they're sitting there sucking face, or groping each other, it's not the fact they're gay that bothers me. It's that they're doing it in an inappropriate time and place. That goes for straight folks who do the exact same thing. It's not a "who's doing it," but a "what they're doing." I understand the ignorance. I just don't subscribe to it.

This is not where I was trying to get at but whatever, I guess.

Again, I actually consider it a positive trait for gay folks to have the security not to hide who they are.

Then why is the "Pride" thing such an issue for you? It's not because we are proud to be born gay, because we didn't choose to be gay in the first place, just like you didn't choose to be straight; there's nothing to be proud of for being born a certain way. Gay people having pride means they aren't ashamed of being gay, and they are willing to be open about that fact instead of hiding it.

I just don't understand why sexuality in general has to be such a defining issue among people.

Who said it has to be? I'm a gay girl and I don't run around telling people "I'm gay!" and "I like girls!". I don't know a single gay person that defines who they are as a person soley based off of their sexuality.

 

[Fearandloathing]

I do.

I've seen in under a generation an acceptance growing that has been amazing to me. In under one generation! Harassment laws, HR training, and even sympathetic TV characters have all broadened the national consciousness. I always understood Queer Nation's attitude; I just never saw it as very productive. Ditto San Fran's gay pride parade and the Sisters of Charity or whatever they are.

The point is that for normal people, their orientation is just one facet of who they are. It's, as you say, just a part and actually not a very interesting part for those of us who don't really care what two consenting adults are up to.

What's weird is seeing another person as any one facet; what's worse is defining yourself in this way.

Which is why many "Pride Parades" are not about sexual orientation anymore, but simply an expression of pride of who you are. The Pride Parade in Vancouver was called out more than a decade ago for hypocrisy in excluding hetrosexuals; it started as a joke but blossomed through the input of two guys I know, who happen to be gay. It was opened to any group of any orientation.

Kind of cool I thought.

Now the problem is every wannabe politician and those in office all MUST be seen in the pride parade.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Something has been bothering me. Perhaps it's my immunity towards this whole "gay" thing.

Why are gay people "proud" to be gay? I'm not "proud" to be straight. I never meet new people and announce whether or not I'm into men or women. I never wake up in the morning and think, "wow...thank God I'm straight!" I've never wanted to hold a meeting, party or gathering with sexual orientation in mind (Gay? Nope...can't show up. Only straight people invited).

Someone give me an unbiased answer on why ANYONE should be "proud" of their orientation, and rather just "be" gay or straight. Why is it anyone's business who's into whom or what? Why must it be public business?

an unbiased answer is not available to a purely biased question.

You clearly didn't do any research, but simply issued a judgement on being gay as something one could not be proud of. I know others in here have addressed the answer better than I can, but I highly suggest you do a bit of surfing and find out about the society around you. But, I will relate this. Gay people have been around as long as people have been around, only they have had to hide in the shadows since the fall of Rome. I have no idea where the first gay pride parade happened, but I know here it was a celebration that they didn't have to hide what they were, it was a revolution in and of itself.

And it has signaled world wide that no one should have to hide what they are, what they born as I also know it took a lot of courage for the first men and women to "come out", more courage than of those who judge them. Because of that is why I support the event and have worked as a volunteer on the Vancouver event.

Through fighting off the demon of drug addiction and alcoholism, I have come to know a good deal about that kind of courage, and in many cases my teachers were gay men and women....who did not judge me when I came begging for help.

 

[Grand Mal]

I think nationality is different than sexuality.

They're both accidents of birth. Why are you proud of being American? Did you somehow accomplish that? If you're allowed to be proud of being American, then gays are allowed their pride, too. It's all kind of high school loyalty, seems to me. Neither makes much sense, but I certainly wouldn't deny anyone their pride if it's sincere.

 

[chromium]

well, i'm proud to have survived and rejected a prolonged period of attempts to shame

seriously what other kind of response do you expect from "you should be ashamed!"?

 

[DifferentDrummr]

Nope, I can't pray the gay away, but hey I could lie about it. Instead of saying I'm gay, I could just say I'm European. ^-^

Actually, people's sexual preferences can change (in either direction) at various times in their lives. Sometimes more than once. As long as nobody is trying to impose a change on someone else, there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Henrin]

Actually, people's sexual preferences can change (in either direction) at various times in their lives. Sometimes more than once. As long as nobody is trying to impose a change on someone else, there's nothing wrong with that.

Which has no control over and likely won't change in her life.

 

[DifferentDrummr]

Which has no control over and likely won't change in her life.

Why would it be so "unlikely?" Many people fall in love with those of both genders at different times. Everything science knows about human sexuality is consistent with this empirical evidence.

 

[Henrin]

Why would it be so "unlikely?" Many people fall in love with those of both genders at different times. Everything science knows about human sexuality is consistent with this empirical evidence.

Most people stay whatever sexuality they started as. Her chances of switching to straight are not that high.

 

[DifferentDrummr]

Most people stay whatever sexuality they started as. Her chances of switching to straight are not that high.

That depends on how you define gay and straight.

Just because someone prefers women doesn't necessarily mean that (s)he can never be attracted to men.

 

[Henrin]

That depends on how you define gay and straight.

Just because someone prefers women doesn't necessarily mean that (s)he can never be attracted to men.

You're speaking towards bisexuality that is likely leaning very heavily towards one direction.

 

[William Rea]

Why would it be so "unlikely?" Many people fall in love with those of both genders at different times. Everything science knows about human sexuality is consistent with this empirical evidence.

But, you can, 'fall in love' in different ways.

 

[joG]

Something has been bothering me. Perhaps it's my immunity towards this whole "gay" thing.

Why are gay people "proud" to be gay? I'm not "proud" to be straight. I never meet new people and announce whether or not I'm into men or women. I never wake up in the morning and think, "wow...thank God I'm straight!" I've never wanted to hold a meeting, party or gathering with sexual orientation in mind (Gay? Nope...can't show up. Only straight people invited).

Someone give me an unbiased answer on why ANYONE should be "proud" of their orientation, and rather just "be" gay or straight. Why is it anyone's business who's into whom or what? Why must it be public business?

I have wondered about that. Is it ment like the feeling of having a Porsche or being American?

 

[joG]

"Pride" here means "not ashamed."

Which would be pretty sad. It is better to say, what one means.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Something has been bothering me. Perhaps it's my immunity towards this whole "gay" thing.

Why are gay people "proud" to be gay? I'm not "proud" to be straight. I never meet new people and announce whether or not I'm into men or women. I never wake up in the morning and think, "wow...thank God I'm straight!" I've never wanted to hold a meeting, party or gathering with sexual orientation in mind (Gay? Nope...can't show up. Only straight people invited).

Someone give me an unbiased answer on why ANYONE should be "proud" of their orientation, and rather just "be" gay or straight. Why is it anyone's business who's into whom or what? Why must it be public business?

Because they are victims, which is at the top of the food chain in victim culture, AKA is cool.

 

[joG]

Because for thousands of years they've been told its shameful, sinful, an abomination, a crime, the work of the devil, etc. And not always just told, sometimes that message comes at the end of a fist, or worse.

Only two short notes.
- They are individuals and cannot have been told anything before they were born.
-Homosexualitt has not been negatively treated for thousands of years. Throughout my life I have known homosexuals coming and going in the house. In the family it was accepted back to my grandparents days at least. In history and around the world homosexuality has been honored or good practice in cycles.

Looking at It with a myopic view, of course, the big picture gets lost.