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Why Liberal and Conservative labels ruin American leadership

TheHonestTruth

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Liberal and Conservative are labels that people identify with for broad reasons, but are tools by politicians to keep us distracted and voting for the same people.


Labels distract you while the politicians ruin our country. People should think for themselves about every issue.

These labels are the tools our current one party system that gets nothing done and endangers this country every day more and more. They crank up hyper partisanship to obsurd levels and they create this image of a true democracy stalled in debate. Instead of one big party doing nothing.

All of these politicians do nothing because the campaign finance system in this country is legalized bribery controlled by wealthy corporations and special interest groups. They pay for the campaign expenses, so they protect all their legislation and lobbyists are controlling the strings to the pocketbooks.


Its a corrupt scheme, we need to end the one party rule. That is why when Ross Perot was allowed to debate the 2 main parties on national TV he won %20 of the vote in 1992 as independent, that is the largest for a 3rd party since the turn of the century. 20% of the American people wanted Ross Perot!!! This proves we are so hungry for anything offered to us beyond the same inneffective one party system. WE just want something. The world saw Ross Perot on TV, because the media is so important to our system. Show us we can survive without the one party, and we could vote out corruption!

But now the Presidential Debates are closed to 3rd parties. And 3rd parties dont get campaign expenses matched (doubled, in effect) by the federal government like the main parties. It is a system that gets nothing done. Ruins our environment, endangers our lives from criminals and terrorists because they dont govern effectively.


These labels are illusions to keep them in power. We fight over divisive issues they have chosen to make into false crises. Take gay marriage or abortion by the republicans/conservatives or racism from the democrats/liberals, those are what they use currently.

The media is owned by a few major corportations and is a government regulated monopoly in the telecom sector.



Dont be a pawn. Wake up people. Look past the labels and the media circus distractions. This is one big party controlling the government with self intrested bureaurcrats who mostly care about the next election, and really nothing else. Its all about $$, and its all about power.

They keep power by using the illusionary labels and divisive issues to keep us busy arguing and taking sides while really the same big party is running a corrupt and inept scheme of a government.
 
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Schweddy

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TheHonestTruth said:
Labels distract you while the politicians ruin our country. People should think for themselves about every issue.
Good post.

I think the biggest thing that is a distraction is not the labels themselves, but the perception of such a label. For instance, I have the elephants under my name - everyone immediatly puts me in a genre of what they believe that I should act and follow.

It's not cut and dry in stone anymore. A conservative could be pro-choice and pro gay marriage as much as a liberal could be pro war. This isn't the political world of yesteryear.

I agree 100% that the Prez debates need to open up. It only increases the labeling and expectation of what people think the true conservative or liberal should actually be. Therefore I think our political structure is heading in downward spiral very fast.
 

Navy Pride

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vauge said:
Good post.

I think the biggest thing that is a distraction is not the labels themselves, but the perception of such a label. For instance, I have the elephants under my name - everyone immediatly puts me in a genre of what they believe that I should act and follow.

It's not cut and dry in stone anymore. A conservative could be pro-choice and pro gay marriage as much as a liberal could be pro war. This isn't the political world of yesteryear.

I agree 100% that the Prez debates need to open up. It only increases the labeling and expectation of what people think the true conservative or liberal should actually be. Therefore I think our political structure is heading in downward spiral very fast.
You have two kinds of Conservatives....Social and Fiscal.......A Social Conservative can not be for gay marriage or abortion nor can a Fiscal Conservative be for big government and big spending............
 

Schweddy

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Navy Pride said:
You have two kinds of Conservatives....Social and Fiscal.......A Social Conservative can not be for gay marriage or abortion nor can a Fiscal Conservative be for big government and big spending............
I personally think there are hundreds of types of Conservatives. There are folks that label themselves as Socially Conservative that are pro-abortion or could careless about gay marriage. Equally, there are Fiscal Conservatives that are all for "some" social programs.

Again, it is not cut and dry.

The two political parties are no longer like a vollyball match on the beach - it's more like bumper cars at a carnival.
 

Navy Pride

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vauge said:
I personally think there are hundreds of types of Conservatives. There are folks that label themselves as Socially Conservative that are pro-abortion or could careless about gay marriage. Equally, there are Fiscal Conservatives that are all for "some" social programs.

Again, it is not cut and dry.

The two political parties are no longer like a vollyball match on the beach - it's more like bumper cars at a carnival.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree........I consider myself a social and fiscal conservative in that socially I am Anti abortion, Gay Marriage and pro Death penalty........I don't think any social conservative could be for gay marriage, abortion or anti death penalty.......

I am a fiscal conservative in that I am for small government (controlled spending), tax cuts, balancing the budget, and a strong military.........No fiscal conservative can be for large government, over taxation, deficits and gutting the military.........

It just does not compute........sorry....
 

FiremanRyan

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vauge said:
Good post.

I think the biggest thing that is a distraction is not the labels themselves, but the perception of such a label. For instance, I have the elephants under my name - everyone immediatly puts me in a genre of what they believe that I should act and follow.

It's not cut and dry in stone anymore. A conservative could be pro-choice and pro gay marriage as much as a liberal could be pro war. This isn't the political world of yesteryear.

I agree 100% that the Prez debates need to open up. It only increases the labeling and expectation of what people think the true conservative or liberal should actually be. Therefore I think our political structure is heading in downward spiral very fast.
my thoughts exactly. liberal and conservative isnt as black and white anymore.
 

Schweddy

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Navy Pride said:
I guess we will have to agree to disagree........I consider myself a social and fiscal conservative in that socially I am Anti abortion, Gay Marriage and pro Death penalty........I don't think any social conservative could be for gay marriage, abortion or anti death penalty.......

I am a fiscal conservative in that I am for small government (controlled spending), tax cuts, balancing the budget, and a strong military.........No fiscal conservative can be for large government, over taxation, deficits and gutting the military.........

It just does not compute........sorry....
We are alike in many ways. I consider myself both a social and fiscal conservative. Everything you mentioned above, I agree 100%. One position that we may totally disagree on is "driving while talking on a cell phone". I am very much against it. Most social conservatives believe this is infringing on their rights.

Does this mean that I am not a real social conservative?
 

mikhail

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Yes but fiscal policy's effect social issues so their is a definite blur between who is a social and fiscal conservative.


Besides that excellent post one of the biggest problems in debating is that people think liberals are never possibly right about anything and vice versa.
 

Navy Pride

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vauge said:
We are alike in many ways. I consider myself both a social and fiscal conservative. Everything you mentioned above, I agree 100%. One position that we may totally disagree on is "driving while talking on a cell phone". I am very much against it. Most social conservatives believe this is infringing on their rights.

Does this mean that I am not a real social conservative?
I really don't have a position on that issue although it would be a little hypocritical of me to be against it because at times I do it myself........

I do believe that laws should not be made to protect people against themselves such as the motorcycle helmet law...........


I think if your core beliefs on major issues is conservative then you would be classified as as one...........

Keep up the good fight my friend.......... :bravo:
 

Navy Pride

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I might add I do not belong to any political party...........In the past I have voted for both democrats and republicans .........Presently I believe my core values are more in line with the republican party so I usually vote for their candidate.........In 2004 I voted for President Bush....I did not agree on every issue with him but I agreed with none of Senator Kerry's............If the democrats ever nominated a strong moderate or conservative I might consider voting for him or her.......Sadly I don't see that happening as the democratic party is controlled by the whacko left.........If they continue along that path I don't see them winning many national elections as this country is made up mostly of moderates and conservatives........
 

TheHonestTruth

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TheHonestTruth said:
These labels are the tools our current one party system that gets nothing done and endangers this country every day more and more. They crank up hyper partisanship to obsurd levels and they create this image of a true democracy stalled in debate. Instead of revealing how they are truly one big party doing nothing. All of these politicians do nothing because the campaign finance system in this country is legalized bribery controlled by wealthy corporations and special interest groups. They pay for the campaign expenses, so they protect all their legislation and lobbyists are controlling the strings to the pocketbooks.


These labels are illusions to keep them in power. We fight over divisive issues they have chosen to make into false crises. Take gay marriage or abortion by the republicans/conservatives or racism from the democrats/liberals, those are what they use currently. The media is owned by a few major corportations and is a government regulated monopoly in the telecom sector, thus mainstream media pumps up this hyperpartisanship.


They keep power by using the illusionary labels and divisive issues to keep us busy arguing and taking sides while really the same big party is running a corrupt and inept scheme of a government.
I think you missed the points in my post, so I quoted the most important points above.

You do realize that these labels are tools to keep us voting for one side or the other, and so we think we have a choice, but really its all the same govt.



You must realize this now that the Right wing has FULL control of govt in all 3 branches... I mean they used this anti-abortion/ anti-gay rights platform to divide gullable people along these touchy cultural issues. BUT, now they have control of the govt in every way and yet abortion is always going to be legal, Roe v. Wade will never be overturned no matter what these liars tell you. And there will not be any federal legislation which is anti-gay rights. This was phantom legislation they used as bait. Politicians lie, its what they do, but its our job to stop voting for those who prove they are consistant liars. Mainstream politicians of today all are horrible liars and corrupted by corporate money, and almost none of them deserve political office.

In fact, this issue of phantom legislation used to herd sheeple deserves its own thread.
 
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