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Why Isn't Congress Moving Legislation During the Lame Duck Session to Fix the Debt Limit Issue

jonny5 said:
NOt just medicare and medicaid, ALL federal healthcare. SCHIP, Obamacare, etc. But how federal got not funding it reduce demand? If the federal govt doesnt fund it, the demand is still there for healthcare. Ending medicare means no payroll tax, so thats extra money in peoples pockets, plus the savings from getting rid of all that bureaucracy . And theres still demand for elderly, poor, childrens, uninsured to get care. That demand will be supplied somewhere else.

But again, all of that is moot. The ramifications, like tax cuts, dont matter. This is about fixing the debt, and for me, increasing my liberty. If youre concerned about healthcare, thats YOUR concerned, not the US govt.
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How does not funding it not reduce demand?
Sweet baby Jesus.
Currently a 72 year old man man falls and ruptures his rotator cuff.
The cost of a rotator cuff surgery is about 36000.
Medicare pays that. So he has his rotator cuff surgery.
Without medicare. He can't afford it and so he doesn't have it. Reducing demand.
He might WANT to have it but if he can't afford it..he can't buy it.
Just like you might want a Ferrari ...but if you can't afford it ..you can't buy it.
" But but he won't have to pay medicare.."

Well medicare tax is 1.45%.
If he makes 20 dollars an hour. Well above minimum wage..
Let's see.. so over 47 years of working.
That's a savings of roughly 28,350.
Oops.. no rotator cuff surgery for you..much less pay for blood pressure medicine doctors visits..colonoscopies..
X rays for a fall and so forth. You can't afford even one relatively minor health issue..compared to say the cost of bypass surgery.
By the way... the cost of that surgery is LOWER because the man has medicare.
If the demand was reduced because rotator cuff surgeries were out of reach.
Then there would be less volume.. so the costs would go up sharply.

The savings in administration for going cash based? Minimal compared to tge decline in demand.
 
jaeger19 said:
How does not funding it not reduce demand?
Sweet baby Jesus.
Currently a 72 year old man man falls and ruptures his rotator cuff.
The cost of a rotator cuff surgery is about 36000.
Medicare pays that. So he has his rotator cuff surgery.
Without medicare. He can't afford it and so he doesn't have it. Reducing demand.
He might WANT to have it but if he can't afford it..he can't buy it.
Just like you might want a Ferrari ...but if you can't afford it ..you can't buy it.
" But but he won't have to pay medicare.."

Well medicare tax is 1.45%.
If he makes 20 dollars an hour. Well above minimum wage..
Let's see.. so over 47 years of working.
That's a savings of roughly 28,350.
Oops.. no rotator cuff surgery for you..much less pay for blood pressure medicine doctors visits..colonoscopies..
X rays for a fall and so forth. You can't afford even one relatively minor health issue..compared to say the cost of bypass surgery.
By the way... the cost of that surgery is LOWER because the man has medicare.
If the demand was reduced because rotator cuff surgeries were out of reach.
Then there would be less volume.. so the costs would go up sharply.

The savings in administration for going cash based? Minimal compared to tge decline in demand.
Click to expand...

I dont care. Make your own medicare. Ill opt out.
 
jonny5 said:
I dont care. Make your own medicare. Ill opt out.
Click to expand...
In other words..you have no idea what you are talking about.
Which is why ironically people need government services because folks cannot do things by themselves.
 
jaeger19 said:
In other words..you have no idea what you are talking about.
Which is why ironically people need government services because folks cannot do things by themselves.
Click to expand...

Which ironically reinforces them not being able to do things for themselves. But I can, so Ill opt out. Win win. You get your medicare, you pay for it. I dont.
 
Back to the topic, heres more reason they should deal with the debt, but wont. SS is another program thats a large portion of the debt, in that theyve spent the surpluses on general things like turtle tunnels, and now the govt owes it back to SS, because outlays are outstripping revenue. Which makes for a great wedge issue. Yet another program that needs to go away. Phase it out, let people and states deal with their own retirement plans. Any private option is vastly superior to social security.

1671455382838.png
 
jonny5 said:
Back to the topic, heres more reason they should deal with the debt, but wont. SS is another program thats a large portion of the debt, in that theyve spent the surpluses on general things like turtle tunnels, and now the govt owes it back to SS, because outlays are outstripping revenue. Which makes for a great wedge issue. Yet another program that needs to go away. Phase it out, let people and states deal with their own retirement plans. Any private option is vastly superior to social security.

View attachment 67427650
Click to expand...

Social Security was in a lot worse shape in the late 70's/early 80's.... it was running chronic deficits, only it didn't have the reserve cushion it has now.... and yet Reagan still managed to pass a bipartisan reform package that brought it solidly back into the black for over 30 years. If we did it then, why can't we do it now?
 
Cordelier said:
Social Security was in a lot worse shape in the late 70's/early 80's.... it was running chronic deficits, only it didn't have the reserve cushion it has now.... and yet Reagan still managed to pass a bipartisan reform package that brought it solidly back into the black for over 30 years. If we did it then, why can't we do it now?
Click to expand...

It has no reserve cushion. It loaned it to the govt who spent it. And who is also running a deficit. But why should we bring it back in the black? Its a failure, giving people a poor return, expensive, increasing dependency, wasting billions on overhead, creating political division and tyrannty, oh and most important, its illegal. Congress doesnt have the power to spend money on social income.
 
jonny5 said:
It has no reserve cushion. It loaned it to the govt who spent it. And who is also running a deficit. But why should we bring it back in the black? Its a failure, giving people a poor return, expensive, increasing dependency, wasting billions on overhead, creating political division and tyrannty, oh and most important, its illegal. Congress doesnt have the power to spend money on social income.
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why do you believe this?
 
jonny5 said:
It has no reserve cushion. It loaned it to the govt who spent it. And who is also running a deficit. But why should we bring it back in the black? Its a failure, giving people a poor return, expensive, increasing dependency, wasting billions on overhead, creating political division and tyrannty, oh and most important, its illegal. Congress doesnt have the power to spend money on social income.
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Jonny, that post is so ignorant of the facts and law that it isn't even worth responding to. The Trump years are over with... I'm done wasting my time trying to engage the idiot fringe of the Republican party. Why don't you get back to me when you're willing to debate with some reference to reality?
 
Cordelier said:
Two schools of thought on that... we can either respond to Republican extremism by responding in kind... and let the whole system burn down; Or we can remain the calm heads at the table and try to peel off enough calm heads from the other side to keep the country on track.

I'm going to vote for the latter option. It's a thin majority... there's a lot of leverage to be gained if you're a newly elected Republican moderate from New York or some other Blue State.
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Raising the debt ceiling is hardly an exercise in extremism.
 
Cordelier said:
It has been in the past... especially on the part of certain segments of the House Republican caucus.
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MqQarthy threatened GOP Senators on their priorities in the next term. GOPutin Senators Lee and Johnson want to shut down the government.
 
jonny5 said:
It has no reserve cushion. It loaned it to the govt who spent it. And who is also running a deficit. But why should we bring it back in the black? Its a failure, giving people a poor return, expensive, increasing dependency, wasting billions on overhead, creating political division and tyrannty, oh and most important, its illegal. Congress doesnt have the power to spend money on social income.
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especially corporate welfare for your republicans
 
Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) on Tuesday joined 13 Republicans who vowed to tank any priorities of GOP senators who vote for the 4,155 page omnibus bill that was negotiated with Democrats before a new Republican majority could take control of the House. Reps. Chip Roy (R-TX), Matt Gaetz (R-FL), Scott Perry (R-PA), and Andy Biggs (R-AZ), along with nine other conservatives House members, signed a letter Tuesday promising to block any priorities of the Republican senators who rushed to support the omnibus deal with Democrats just days before Congress leaves town for Christmas.

www.breitbart.com

McCarthy Threatens to Block Bills of GOP Senators Who Vote for Omnibus

Fourteen Republicans have vowed to tank the priorities of GOP senators who vote for the 4,155 page omnibus bill.
www.breitbart.com www.breitbart.com
 
Cordelier said:
Agreed. But I think doing it during the lame duck session is just going to start the next Congress off on the wrong foot. The Republicans won the House fair and square, so they deserve to have a seat at the table. If they start getting all full mooner and baying at the Moon, there are enough moderates that be split off to avoid a fiscal cliff.

The trick is to keep your power dry for long enough to make your opponent make the mistakes. Getting too aggressive with a lame duck attempt is just going to force splits between the progressives and moderates in the Democratic caucus.
-snip-
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They "won it" resulting from big injection of RWE strategy and manipulation financed by some of the wealthiest RWE billionaires in
the U.S. that packed the SCOTUS with five consecutive nominations of white Roman Catholic justices by two consecutive G.O.P. POTUS
who did not win the popular vote to enter the office

Confirmation U.S. is a thugocracy? This name has never appeared @DP Forum. "Whatever you do to the least of my people, you do to me."

https://www.rawstory.com/don-mcgahn-jones-day/ August 25, 2022 "...McGahn had been personally responsible for picking Trump's judges, whose ranks he filled with conservatives approved by the Federalist Society, and gutting the administrative state, but less than six months into the job he was...
debatepolitics.com debatepolitics.com

... and by takeover, directed and financed by Koch, Inc., of the poorest states with the
least educated voting majorities who invested heavily in triggering of christian nationalist orientation.

American Legislative Exchange Council - SourceWatch​

https://www.sourcewatch.org › index.php › American_...
Apr 6, 2022 — Charles Koch is the right-wing billionaire owner of Koch Industries. As one of the richest people in the world, he is a key funder of the right- ...

Rightwing group pushing US states for law blocking ...​

https://www.theguardian.com › us-news › nov › alec-an...

Nov 11, 2022 — A powerful rightwing pressure group, the American Legislative Exchange Council (Alec), is pushing states to adopt a new law shielding all US ...

American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) - DeSmog​

https://www.desmog.com › Database Entries
Corporations sit on all nine ALEC task forces and vote with legislators to approve 'model' bills. ...

ALEC Exposed | Page 5 - PR Watch​

https://www.prwatch.org › topics › alec-exposed
ALEC board member, Kansas Senate President Susan Wagle, pitches political donors on the need for a GOP supermajority to stack congressional districts for the ...

Kansas Senate President slammed for comments on redistricting​

https://www.ksnt.com › capitol-bureau › kansas-senate-...
Oct 9, 2020 — A recent video that shows Kansas Senate President Susan Wagle talking about redistricting has spurred controversy online.

ALEC Board Member Reveals Kansas Partisan Gerrymandering ...​

https://www.youtube.com › watch
Kansas Senate President Susan Wagle (R) told donors that Republicans had to maintain their supermajority in the Kansas state legislature so they could ...

Tea Party's Grass Roots Watered By Deep Pockets From Above​

https://www.npr.org › sections › itsallpolitics › 2010/09/17
Sep 17, 2010 — There was New Yorker writer Jane Mayer's recent opus about the quiet money links between billionaire Koch brothers and the Tea Party ...

Tea Party - SourceWatch​

https://www.sourcewatch.org › index.php › Tea_Party
... author Jane Mayer links the billionaire brothers David Koch and Charles Koch, ,.
 
Last edited:
21 RINOs are ready to betray America yet again.

The Republican senators who betrayed their own party and their country include:

Blunt,
Boozman,
Capito,
Collins,
Cornyn,
Cotton,
Graham,
Grassley,
Hyde-Smith,
McConnell,
Moran,
Murkowski,
Portman,
Romney,
Rounds,
Rubio,
Shelby,
Thune,
Tuberville,
Wicker and
Young.

The latest spending bill is full of special interest earmarks and pork.

The bill includes $45 billion to Ukraine, $7.5 million in LGBTQ programs, Jan 6 prosecution funding and more.

defiantamerica.com

Here Are The Most Audacious Items Included In The $1.7 Trillion Omnibus Bill That's Supported By 21 GOP Traitors

The US Senate on Tuesday evening voted 70-25 to advance the $1.7 trillion Omnibus spending bill and open debate. This is just the first procedural vote.
defiantamerica.com defiantamerica.com
 
Of the $1.7 trillion left-wing spending spree McConnell is working so hard to help Democrats pass, he said, unbelievably, that he was “pretty proud of the fact that with a Democratic president, Democratic House, and Democratic Senate, we were able to achieve through this omnibus spending bill essentially all of our priorities.” As an indication of how deeply sick and broken and unserious the Senate is, no one had even begun to read the lengthy bill, which was put forward just hours before votes began.

thefederalist.com

GOP Can't Be Successful Until Mitch McConnell Is Gone

Comments Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell made on Tuesday show why he has become the single biggest obstacle to GOP success.
thefederalist.com thefederalist.com
 
basionok said:
21 RINOs are ready to betray America yet again.

The Republican senators who betrayed their own party and their country include:

Blunt,
Boozman,
Capito,
Collins,
Cornyn,
Cotton,
Graham,
Grassley,
Hyde-Smith,
McConnell,
Moran,
Murkowski,
Portman,
Romney,
Rounds,
Rubio,
Shelby,
Thune,
Tuberville,
Wicker and
Young.

The latest spending bill is full of special interest earmarks and pork.

The bill includes $45 billion to Ukraine, $7.5 million in LGBTQ programs, Jan 6 prosecution funding and more.

defiantamerica.com

Here Are The Most Audacious Items Included In The $1.7 Trillion Omnibus Bill That's Supported By 21 GOP Traitors

The US Senate on Tuesday evening voted 70-25 to advance the $1.7 trillion Omnibus spending bill and open debate. This is just the first procedural vote.
defiantamerica.com defiantamerica.com
Click to expand...

How much would you spend on Ukraine?
 
basionok said:
Of the $1.7 trillion left-wing spending spree McConnell is working so hard to help Democrats pass, he said, unbelievably, that he was “pretty proud of the fact that with a Democratic president, Democratic House, and Democratic Senate, we were able to achieve through this omnibus spending bill essentially all of our priorities.” As an indication of how deeply sick and broken and unserious the Senate is, no one had even begun to read the lengthy bill, which was put forward just hours before votes began.

thefederalist.com

GOP Can't Be Successful Until Mitch McConnell Is Gone

Comments Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell made on Tuesday show why he has become the single biggest obstacle to GOP success.
thefederalist.com thefederalist.com
Click to expand...
 
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