Why is Toronto so less affordable than Dallas-Fort Worth?

[SDET]

Pay rates are lower in Toronto than D/FW. Both metropolitan areas have a similar population. However a recent construction three bedroom, single family home costs about US$1700 per month to rent in D/FW. A similar home is about US$3000 per month in Toronto. Gasoline is US$1.78 per US gallon in D/FW. It's almost US$3 in Toronto. There's no state income tax in D/FW. Why is life in Toronto less prosperous than in Texas?

 

[Carjosse]

Foreigners driving up housing prices being the main driver of the outrageous housing costs, same with Vancouver. Toronto already had a supply problem but the foreign buyers just made it exponentially worse.

 

[PeteEU]

Pay rates are lower in Toronto than D/FW. Both metropolitan areas have a similar population. However a recent construction three bedroom, single family home costs about US$1700 per month to rent in D/FW. A similar home is about US$3000 per month in Toronto. Gasoline is US$1.78 per US gallon in D/FW. It's almost US$3 in Toronto. There's no state income tax in D/FW. Why is life in Toronto less prosperous than in Texas?

Because Texas is a dump? Why on earth would anyone want to live there? Toronto is one of the best places on the planet to raise a family.. where as Texas aint.

 

[SDET]

Because Texas is a dump? Why on earth would anyone want to live there? Toronto is one of the best places on the planet to raise a family.. where as Texas aint.

I guess you don't like living in a brand new house.

 

[SDET]

Foreigners driving up housing prices being the main driver of the outrageous housing costs, same with Vancouver. Toronto already had a supply problem but the foreign buyers just made it exponentially worse.

Why can't you build your way out of the problem? I live in a house owned by a foreign investor. There are not enough renters to go around, which keeps prices down.

 

[Carjosse]

I guess you don't like living in a brand new house.

Why what difference does it make?

 

[Carjosse]

Why can't you build your way out of the problem? I live in a house owned by a foreign investor. There are not enough renters to go around, which keeps prices down.

We have already tried to build out and then those properties are just bought by the same foreign investors who just buy them and never live in them or rent them out. They just sit on them. Toronto is full of newly built condo towers but most of the units are unoccupied, held by worthless foreigners (mainly Chinese).

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Because Texas is a dump? Why on earth would anyone want to live there? Toronto is one of the best places on the planet to raise a family.. where as Texas aint.

Well apparently more people live in DFW and get paid more then people in Toronto, There are some really crappy places in Tex, DFW ain't one of them.

 

[SDET]

Why what difference does it make?

He referred to Texas as a dump. I could live anywhere in North America and chose Texas. Colorado, Utah and Nebraska look almost as good. I scouted out several cities including in Canada. I used to think Florida was great, but learned that Florida's economy is brittle and doesn't weather a recession well.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Why can't you build your way out of the problem? I live in a house owned by a foreign investor. There are not enough renters to go around, which keeps prices down.

because these are foreign investors with cash, mainly from SARs in China (Maccau and Hong Kong) who don't care if they make money on Toronto Real estate, they want a doomsday condo to bail out to if the People's Liberation Army decides to "renegotiate" HKs agreement. and owning dirty combined with Canada's absurdly refugee freindly laws makes Canada an attractive market for this.

It is easier to enter Canada on the basis you own property, then file an asylum petition. Canadian immigration generally won't remove asylum seekers while processing the petitions, while we (US) have been known to tell people to wait outside the country while we review their status.

 

[Carjosse]

He referred to Texas as a dump. I could live anywhere in North America and chose Texas. Colorado, Utah and Nebraska look almost as good. I scouted out several cities including in Canada. I used to think Florida was great, but learned that Florida's economy is brittle and doesn't weather a recession well.

But what does living in a new house have to do with it?

 

[Carjosse]

because these are foreign investors with cash, mainly from SARs in China (Maccau and Hong Kong) who don't care if they make money on Toronto Real estate, they want a doomsday condo to bail out to if the People's Liberation Army decides to "renegotiate" HKs agreement

Mainly mainalnders actually stashing their money because the Chinese economy is failing and they for some reason love Canada. The Chinese also see real estate as the best investment possible, that is why they have ghost cities.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Mainly mainalnders actually stashing their money because the Chinese economy is failing and they for some reason love Canada. The Chinese also see real estate as the best investment possible, that is why they have ghost cities.

Never mind, you're right, I was thinking of Vancouvers massive foreign buy out in the 1990s that driven by HK and Maccau going to China....

Still the reason for Canada is I believe that Canada's immigration policies, especially towards property owners, are friendlier then the US. if they were looking at a purely financial perspective LA and Long Island NY are better financial investments then anywhere in Canada. So I don't think money is the primary driver.

 

[SDET]

We have already tried to build out and then those properties are just bought by the same foreign investors who just buy them and never live in them or rent them out. They just sit on them. Toronto is full of newly built condo towers but most of the units are unoccupied, held by worthless foreigners (mainly Chinese).

Our foreign investors seem to be Indian. They make pretty good landlords until something needs fixed. It means moving sometimes, but things get fixed when you're a new tenant. Why would any investor let a property sit empty? I'm asking these things because when you're an information technology contractor, it's good to know where to accept offers, where to demand more money and where to say "not interested". I would consider living in Toronto, but would expect US$150 per hour whereas my rate here is US$70 per hour.

 

[longview]

Wouldn't Calgary and Dallas be a better comparison? Alberta and Texas have very similar economies,
and within those states/provinces, Dallas and Calgary share much in common.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Pay rates are lower in Toronto than D/FW. Both metropolitan areas have a similar population. However a recent construction three bedroom, single family home costs about US$1700 per month to rent in D/FW. A similar home is about US$3000 per month in Toronto. Gasoline is US$1.78 per US gallon in D/FW. It's almost US$3 in Toronto. There's no state income tax in D/FW. Why is life in Toronto less prosperous than in Texas?

I don't know enough about D/FW to give you more in the way of comparators, but here's a few:

Toronto is the largest city in Canada and the financial capital of the country - don't compare Toronto's cost of living to Dallas, compare it to New York

Toronto/Ontario is not an oil producing region - Dallas/Texas is - gasoline prices in Alberta, a similar economy to Texas, is much cheaper than in Toronto/Ontario.

Gasoline in Canada in general and in Toronto/Ontario is highly taxed, supposedly to help fun infrastructure in the form of roads, bridges, etc. but we all know that's a liberal lie because liberals hate cars and do everything in their power to fund bicycle infrastructure and public transit. Compare the price of gasoline in Toronto to the price in California where they also have liberal fools who think car owners are evil and must be punished.

Toronto/Ontario has Provincial income taxes because we like to fund things like healthcare which takes up about 50% of every dollar the Provincial government raises in revenue.

Finally, Toronto is growing greatly and one of the most sought after locations for people around the world who want to emigrate to a safe environment. We have on average about 50 to 70 murders a year for a city the size of Chicago. A lot of Asian money has been flooding the housing market here in Toronto. It is a safe place for them to invest and, additionally, investment in this country is one of the criteria for getting considered as suitable for immigration.

None of the above is to disparage or take anything away from Dallas/FW. I know that the recent police shootings there has been bad publicity, but from what I've read and seen Dallas has one of the best and more progressive police forces in your country and has done a great deal to improve police/community relations. We also have some police/community issues but nothing, thankfully, to that extent.

Good luck in Dallas. I'm guessing you're like me, there's no place on earth I'd rather live that right where I live now, Toronto and for you that's probably Dallas.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Because Texas is a dump? Why on earth would anyone want to live there? Toronto is one of the best places on the planet to raise a family.. where as Texas aint.

Don't get me wrong: Texas is a ****hole of a state, but there are parts of it (albeit few) that are quite nice.

I could live in the Bishop Arts District in Dallas, other than the miserable Summer weather.

 

[Carjosse]

Our foreign investors seem to be Indian. They make pretty good landlords until something needs fixed. It means moving sometimes, but things get fixed when you're a new tenant. Why would any investor let a property sit empty? I'm asking these things because when you're an information technology contractor, it's good to know where to accept offers, where to demand more money and where to say "not interested". I would consider living in Toronto, but would expect US$150 per hour whereas my rate here is US$70 per hour.

Because that is how the Chinese are, they let property sit empty. You know those ghost cities? They are not ghost cities because no one bought anything they are ghost cities because they are sold out but no one moved in. It is also still very profitable for them since it increases in value 20% per year right now with no one in it. THsi si the reason why Vancouver petitioned the province to allow them to levy a vacancy tax, but I do not think it will do anything unless they make it an annual tax of like 50% of market value.

 

[PeteEU]

Well apparently more people live in DFW and get paid more then people in Toronto, There are some really crappy places in Tex, DFW ain't one of them.

You did factor in healthcare costs right? Guessing you did not.

 

[Carjosse]

Never mind, you're right, I was thinking of Vancouvers massive foreign buy out in the 1990s that driven by HK and Maccau going to China....

Still the reason for Canada is I believe that Canada's immigration policies, especially towards property owners, are friendlier then the US. if they were looking at a purely financial perspective LA and Long Island NY are better financial investments then anywhere in Canada. So I don't think money is the primary driver.

No it is, they just like Canada because their friends all like it. They do not immigrate here, so immigration is not the issue. There is just something they like about owning Canadian property, I would also love to see them get +20% annual value increase on property in LA or Long Island.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

You did factor in healthcare costs right? Guessing you did not.

But what does that have to do with Dallas? that would be a reason to choose anywhere in Canada over anywhere in the US, but that's not a reason Texas is a dump, at least not uniquely.

 

[Carjosse]

But what does that have to do with Dallas? that would be a reason to choose anywhere in Canada over anywhere in the US, but that's not a reason Texas is a dump, at least not uniquely.

I think education would be a much better factor. It is substantially cheaper here as well higher quality from elementary school to university.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

No it is, they just like Canada because their friends all like it. They do not immigrate here, so immigration is not the issue. There is just something they like about owning Canadian property, I would also love to see them get +20% annual value increase on property in LA or Long Island.

That's not true, Chinese immigrate to Canada all the time, in many cases for work or education. and many chinese did buy in the 90s with the idea being to hold a spot to reside in , in the event they had to emigrate.

Maclean's did an investigation on this several months ago, and they mentioned amongst other things, that it is common for wealthy investors from out of country to purchase a property, send their children to Canada to study, and never themselves enter the country. some have bought property on the idea they can later qualify for the immigrant investor program, etc.

some do not move to Canada, some do. to claim there is zero net immigration from investors is false, and certainly the ease of which one can obtain residency, in addition to social benefits, low crime, etc. is a selling point for Canadian real estate over US.


if Chinese were buying Long Island at the rate they buy Toronto it would easily exceed 20 AVI. you're talking desirable dirt close to a major city and geographically constrained from new massive development.

 

[Grand Mal]

Pay rates are lower in Toronto than D/FW. Both metropolitan areas have a similar population. However a recent construction three bedroom, single family home costs about US$1700 per month to rent in D/FW. A similar home is about US$3000 per month in Toronto. Gasoline is US$1.78 per US gallon in D/FW. It's almost US$3 in Toronto. There's no state income tax in D/FW. Why is life in Toronto less prosperous than in Texas?

Real estate is a free market. Anything is worth exactly what you can get for it.
Hard as it may be to accept, living in Toronto or Vancouver is worth more than living in Texas.
That's not an opinion, it's the decision of the marketplace.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

I think education would be a much better factor. It is substantially cheaper here as well higher quality from elementary school to university.

I'm not disputing that, if we want a US v Canada discussion that would be fine, someone started a Toronto v DFW thread and PK said Texas was a dump. not that the US in general was a bad deal versus Canada, or that DFW was a dump in comparison to Toronto, just that Texas itself is a dump, and then his reasoning is macro statistics that apply to way more then Texas.