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Why is there so much outrage over Trump's immigration stance?

If you mean that it won't be 100% effective, then I agree. NOTHING is 100% effective.

However, even if it is only 50% effective, that is a 50% decrease in both contraband smuggling and illegal immigrant passage and the wall would be worthwhile. If it is only 90% effective? So much the better.

By this logic then a ban on guns would also be great because even if it's not 100% effective even being 50% effective is an improvement right? Wrong. Because the 50% that will be blocked are the 50% that are generally the most law abiding. The ones that get through will be those who are willing to go to the greatest lengths to break the law. A successful immigration policy would have the opposite effect. It would block the worst people and let in the best people. A wall is just blanket discrimination against an entire race of people. It will keep out the people we want in, and the **** heads we're trying to keep out will still get in. The drug dealers and other criminals have the money and resources to get around your dumb wall. The decent people who are just looking for work don't. If they did they wouldn't be trying to get here in the first place.
 
By this logic then a ban on guns would also be great because even if it's not 100% effective even being 50% effective is an improvement right? Wrong. Because the 50% that will be blocked are the 50% that are generally the most law abiding. The ones that get through will be those who are willing to go to the greatest lengths to break the law. A successful immigration policy would have the opposite effect. It would block the worst people and let in the best people. A wall is just blanket discrimination against an entire race of people. It will keep out the people we want in, and the **** heads we're trying to keep out will still get in. The drug dealers and other criminals have the money and resources to get around your dumb wall. The decent people who are just looking for work don't. If they did they wouldn't be trying to get here in the first place.

Umm, and your basis for this belief is?

I mean all of the people who are opting the illegal immigration/migration route ARE breaking the law. Sooo...how does that make the 50% who can't figure out how to bribe, break, or circumvent the wall more "law abiding?" That's the weirdest piece of logical legerdemain I've heard so far. :roll:

Again, the wall will not stop everyone. People will still be able to go around via other routes, and there will always be some corruption allowing for major drug cartel bribery. But the wall could channelize movements allowing for more concentrates control measures at those weak points people use to "get around" rather than leaving a great gaping open access route we currently have to deal with. As for bribery, they always get caught eventually...greedy people often do because the fail to realize an influx of unreported wealth shows up in the purchases. :shrug:

Again, I am playing devils advocate because I don't really think we need a wall. It's just not as unrealistic as people portray.
 
i have no idea. you can't just go to mexico, or france without their consent and think nothing will bad will happen to you
 
That illegal immigration remains a significant problem in the U.S illustrates the policy of inaction that prevailed to this day, but why, I don't know. Is it for the sake of cheap labor? I don't see why illegal immigrants are essential for that, as immigrants from less affluent countries provide that commodity without being in violation of the law. Is it bleeding-heart liberals at play? I find it difficult to believe they'd go that far in their nonsense. Could it be just lethargy? probably.

Demokrat voters..
 
Illegal immigration is denounced by every country in the world.

A liberal country like Australia has no bordering nations, essentially a "natural wall" of water. If someone is found to be undocumented, they are deported. If someone is captured trying to arrive by boat, they are shipped off to a remote island for detention and will never set foot on Australian soil.

The USA is an incredibly desirable nation to immigrate to from all countries around the world, and even people with excellent skills who would have a big contribution to the wealth of the nation have difficulty acquiring a visa to work there.

With the ongoing refugee crisis in Europe, many countries are fencing off their borders too. And this is for refugees, not simply opportunistic economic migrants.

Why does anyone have compassion for illegal immigrants? There are so many refugees in the world today who deserve compassion before illegal immigrants.

With something like 11 million undocumented aliens in the US today, its incredible the government hasn't acted sooner on this.

We have too many people in office and the media who suck the testicles of illegals. These people are anti-American pro-globalist and pro-open border scum. Those are the people who are outraged over Trump's immigration policies. Not patriotic Americans. Patriotic Americans want our borders secured, immigration not used a tool by scum trying to keep wages low, illegals kicked out and our immigration laws enforced.
 
The wall is absolutely feasible...but it is only a component of step 1...securing the border. Step 2 is ensure SSN checking is accurate and in place. Step 3 is penalizing the hell out of US citizens and companies that employ illegal immigrants. Step 4 is deny federal healthcare benefits to illegal immigrants (states and cities can do what they want...just without Federal dollars). Step 5 involves creating a legitimate status for those already here. Deporting 20-30 million people is a ridiculous notion. Step 6 involves improving economic relations with our neighbors to create a better trade situation.

Put simply...Trumps rhetoric is just that...its rhetoric without substance. Kinda "hope and change" if you will.
 
Not particularly, no it doesn't. In fact, the money to build and maintain the wall would be much more effectively used elsewhere.

Get real, it would be used on welfare for immigrants if not on a wall. If a border wall keeps out a good number of illegals, then it will be worth it.
 
Get real, it would be used on welfare for immigrants if not on a wall. If a border wall keeps out a good number of illegals, then it will be worth it.

Get real, it could be used for any number of things, things that might actually do something about the problem.
 
Get real, it could be used for any number of things, things that might actually do something about the problem.

Why do you have this seeming obsession that a wall wouldn't work? Israel has done it. Hungary has done it. In Hungary it has been tremendously successful. After they built their wall, the number of illegals intercepted trying to cross the border fell from 138,000 in one month alone, to less than 15 per day.
 
You can solve most of the immigrant problem with a federal E verify, with federal* penalties for offenders. The rest of the problem is drugs and criminals smuggling drugs and people in.

*It needs to be federally enforced, because Gov. Brown in California has indicated he will not cooperate in keeping illegal aliens out.

And California is the future of this country if we continue to refuse to do anything about illegal immigration.
 
But why take those risks on a wall that will, initially, cost about 25 billion dollars and then require a maintenance cost of an additional 25 billion dollars every seven years?

We could use drones or remote sensors for significantly less money.

We should hire illegals to do it for a fraction of the cost. Everyone else at Home Depot does it.
 
Why do you have this seeming obsession that a wall wouldn't work? Israel has done it. Hungary has done it. In Hungary it has been tremendously successful. After they built their wall, the number of illegals intercepted trying to cross the border fell from 138,000 in one month alone, to less than 15 per day.

Because it will not work. You make a big deal out of the Hungarian Border fence, which is a total of 175 km(doing the math in my head gets it to a just over 100 miles). See the difference, in terms of cost, maintenance, and ability to monitor it?
 
Okay. Explain how Mexico has "no choice" but to make a billion-dollar expenditure for our benefit, at our demand. In your own words. This should be good.

Threaten them with the return of 20 million of their own citizens!
 
Because it will not work. You make a big deal out of the Hungarian Border fence, which is a total of 175 km(doing the math in my head gets it to a just over 100 miles). See the difference, in terms of cost, maintenance, and ability to monitor it?

Hungary built a 100 mile wall and has a GDP of $133 billion.
The US-Mexico border is 2000 miles, and the US has a GDP of $16.8 trillion.

The US can easily handle that.
 
Hungary built a 100 mile wall and has a GDP of $133 billion.
The US-Mexico border is 2000 miles, and the US has a GDP of $16.8 trillion.

The US can easily handle that.

Way to avoid what was said. Hint: cost to build was one issue, cost to maintain another, monitoring it another, and finally efficiency of money spent(ie it would be better spent elsewhere).
 
Way to avoid what was said. Hint: cost to build was one issue, cost to maintain another, monitoring it another, and finally efficiency of money spent(ie it would be better spent elsewhere).

I didn't avoid it. I'm just saying that if a tiny country like Hungary can build a 100 mile wall, then why can't the US which is more than 20x larger build a wall which is 20x longer?

For me, and I assume many others, much of the empty rhetoric about other ways to control illegal immigration is falling on deaf ears. We've heard it for far too long and still nothing ever happens. A wall is substantial and you can easily see whether or not it's been done. All of these other approaches we've been promised for years and it never happens. In fact, even California tried to just stop public benefits for illegals, and the courts shut them down! We've been betrayed for far too long, and thus someone promising to build a wall is going to get a lot of support.
 
I think trump us willing to start a trade war with Mexico. He could tax remittances, he could stop ignoring the EIC tax credit theft by immigrants returning to families in Mexico, and he could add a tarrif on certain goods.

He could also start placing anti Mexican government corruption ads on stations listened to in Mexico.

He could explain that the sudden end to the cartel wars was due to an "accommodation" between cartels and the government, to ignore drug trafficking into the USA, and that is another reason for a wall.

Lastly, he could slow traffic in and out if Mexico to a crawl.

Obama showed the way with executive orders, and Trump can use pressure on Mexico to force the democrats to pick a side for the 2018 election.
 
I dislike Trump's immigration stance because it is doomed to failure. It is pure populism that does things that sound great, but are not particularly effective(see: build a wall).

What about the aspects of his immigration besides building a wall? Is enforcing our immigration laws radically opposed to your worldview?
 
1. The notion that the Federal government hasn't acted on illegal immigration is wholly fallacious.

2. Trump does not merely propose building a wall - he proposes building a wall along one border (while ignoring the other borders and methods of entering the country) and then forcing a sovereign nation to pay for that wall. How he would actually force a sovereign nation to pay for that wall without instituting a trade war or an actual war with one of our closest neighbors and allies is still unknown.

3. And, of course, there's the fact that Trump launched his political candidacy by denigrating the hispanics, the same ones he claims that love him, as rapists and murderers.

4. And, finally, there's the fact that Trump is....(read my signature).

easy, withold foreign aid until the cost is paid, or assess a 30% tax on all wire transactions leaving the US, or just build the wall and who the hell cares who paid for it?
 
easy, withold foreign aid until the cost is paid, or assess a 30% tax on all wire transactions leaving the US, or just build the wall and who the hell cares who paid for it?

That is the only outcome possible. And I think the American people should care because it will cost a minimum of 25 billion dollars, plus an additional 25 billion every seven years, for a wall that will not work, will force the usage of imminent domain to deprive property from American citizens, and will force some of the United States to effectively be annexed into Mexico because the wall will, for logistical purposes, be built in such a way that American land will sit outside of the wall.

As for the rest of the suggestions on how the wall will get built - the foreign aid that goes to Mexico is about 1/20th of the amount needed to pay for the initial construction - so you will need to "withhold aid" for quite a long time. As for the 30% tax on all wire transfers...come on...seriously?

Honestly, I can't tell if you are just trying to troll with this post or actually offering your opinion of what will/should happen.
 
That is the only outcome possible. And I think the American people should care because it will cost a minimum of 25 billion dollars, plus an additional 25 billion every seven years, for a wall that will not work, will force the usage of imminent domain to deprive property from American citizens, and will force some of the United States to effectively be annexed into Mexico because the wall will, for logistical purposes, be built in such a way that American land will sit outside of the wall.

As for the rest of the suggestions on how the wall will get built - the foreign aid that goes to Mexico is about 1/20th of the amount needed to pay for the initial construction - so you will need to "withhold aid" for quite a long time. As for the 30% tax on all wire transfers...come on...seriously?

Honestly, I can't tell if you are just trying to troll with this post or actually offering your opinion of what will/should happen.

I don't care if they ever build a wall, but if that's what it takes to let the mexicans know they better start helping us keep their criminals on their side of the line then that's what needs to happen.

I'm not concerned about migrant workers, ICE doesn't need to go busting families and landscaping crews, but there is a substantial problem with illegal immigrant criminals being shielded by sanctuary laws, such as Pedro Espinosa, Edwin Ramos, Jose Medellin, etc etc etc. and the Mexican government is no help, their states are publishing how to guides on illegally crossing the border, and mexico actually had the nerve to sue us over Jose Medellins death sentence after he and a gang of fellow illegals brutally raped and murdered (and sodomized with objects) Jennifer Ertman and Elizabeth Pena.... etc etc etc.


So I'm perfectly willing to blow 25B on a wall, we paid far more for a military misadventure in Iraq that gave us far less benefit.
 
The primary objections to building a wall come from aliens and their relatives and friends. Most Americans are in favor of buiding the wall to keep out any more illegals and the huge amounts of drugs from Mexico being distributed throughout the United States. The wall will also help to keep the huge number of things stolen here, such as our cars and expensive construction equipment, from going South. If you watch the protests at the Trump rallies, you see many Mexican flags. People waving Mexican or any other foreign flags in America belong on the other side of the wall.

Multi-culturalism is a tragically failed experiment that must now be reversed. The wall will help to begin that process.
 
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I don't care if they ever build a wall, but if that's what it takes to let the mexicans know they better start helping us keep their criminals on their side of the line then that's what needs to happen.

I'm not concerned about migrant workers, ICE doesn't need to go busting families and landscaping crews, but there is a substantial problem with illegal immigrant criminals being shielded by sanctuary laws, such as Pedro Espinosa, Edwin Ramos, Jose Medellin, etc etc etc. and the Mexican government is no help, their states are publishing how to guides on illegally crossing the border, and mexico actually had the nerve to sue us over Jose Medellins death sentence after he and a gang of fellow illegals brutally raped and murdered (and sodomized with objects) Jennifer Ertman and Elizabeth Pena.... etc etc etc.


So I'm perfectly willing to blow 25B on a wall, we paid far more for a military misadventure in Iraq that gave us far less benefit.
Yeah, I remember the Medellin case because it showed the Bush administration trying to force Texas to capitulate to international laws and set free an illegal immigrant who was a rapist and murderer.
 
The primary objections to building a wall come from aliens and their relatives and friends. Most Americans are in favor of buiding the wall to keep out any more illegals and the huge amounts of drugs from Mexico being distributed throughout the United States. The wall will also help to keep the huge number of things stolen here, such as our cars and expensive construction equipment, from going South. If you watch the protests at the Trump rallies, you see many Mexican flags. People waving Mexican or any other foreign flags in America belong on the other side of the wall.

Multi-culturalism is a tragically failed experiment that must now be reversed. The wall will help to begin that process.

Good post!

Many hypocrites support the exclusive "Jewish state", with walls and "Jews-Only" migration and citizenship laws (a marriage between Jews and non-Jews cannot be registered in Israel, and if a Jew dates a non-Jew in Israel, he will be ostracised in the Jewish State), and at the same time advocate "diversity", "race mixing" and "open boarders" for western countries.

And these hypocrites never explain, why Israel is not getting a dose from this "wonderful medicine" they prescribed to all Western countries.
 
Yeah, I remember the Medellin case because it showed the Bush administration trying to force Texas to capitulate to international laws and set free an illegal immigrant who was a rapist and murderer.

We should've canceled foreign aid for that year just becuase they had the nerve to file a complaint
 
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