Why is the Obama administration fighting to keep poor children in bad schools?

[Boo Radley]

Actually, he ducks the question rather than answer it.

It's answered in the post you replied to when you asked the question. All you have to do is read that post. He lays it out pretty well.

 

[Jack Hays]

It's answered in the post you replied to when you asked the question. All you have to do is read that post. He lays it out pretty well.

No, that post is merely a pile of unexamined assumptions and teacher union talking points. It's stale political dodge ball. eace

 

[Boo Radley]

No, that post is merely a pile of unexamined assumptions and teacher union talking points. It's stale political dodge ball. eace

I'm not sure you read the post then. He lays out a position that answers you question. Even if you disagree with him, you should at least acknowledge the answer he gave to that question. Like myself, he may not belong to a union btw.

 

[Jack Hays]

I'm not sure you read the post then. He lays out a position that answers you question. Even if you disagree with him, you should at least acknowledge the answer he gave to that question. Like myself, he may not belong to a union btw.

His answer, boiled down to the essentials, is to blame the students for poor schools. That is not only wrong, it is obscene, and I will not dignify it with discussion.eace

 

[Boo Radley]

His answer, boiled down to the essentials, is to blame the students for poor schools. That is not only wrong, it is obscene, and I will not dignify it with discussion.eace

Not how I read it. But if the schools rated high had to deal with that general population, they would rank lower. One reason many schools rate high is due to student population. It's important to know all the factors involved.

 

[Jack Hays]

Not how I read it. But if the schools rated high had to deal with that general population, they would rank lower. One reason many schools rate high is due to student population. It's important to know all the factors involved.

There is no demonstrated factual basis for your post. You too are apparently willing to use the "blame the students" defense.:roll:

 

[Jack Hays]

The Holder-Jindal Collision

By MICHAEL WARREN

Here’s how it works: Public schools receive grades, from A to F (another Jindal reform), that tell teachers, parents, and policymakers how those schools are performing. A school that receives an F has, among other problems, at least half of its students performing below grade level. Schools that receive a C or lower are considered failing schools. Low-income students attending a failing school are eligible to apply for a voucher, and money that would otherwise go to their local school can instead be used to pay for tuition at a private school or a better performing public school.
Parents like the program, according to the governor’s office, with 93 percent approval from parents (mostly single moms) whose kids were awarded vouchers. Ninety percent of the recipients are minorities, which in Louisiana means they are overwhelmingly black. While most of the program’s students are in New Orleans, there are recipients everywhere from urban areas like Baton Rouge and Shreveport to the rural parishes north and south. Early results for the statewide program show improvement: From 2011 to 2013, students in “scholarship schools” did better on literacy and math tests than they did in their old schools, with a 7 percent increase in students performing at grade level in those areas.
Last year, 10,000 students applied for vouchers, and 5,000 received them. This year, the applicant pool jumped to 12,000, and 8,000 vouchers were awarded (the awards are made by lottery). The program’s growth may explain why the feds are suddenly interested.eace

 

[Boo Radley]

There is no demonstrated factual basis for your post. You too are apparently willing to use the "blame the students" defense.:roll:

That's nonsense. There's plenty if blame to go around. Parents, students, teachers, administrators, elected officials, their appointees in the department of education, poverty, violent communities, drugs, and a culture that demeans teachers and being smart. You need to think beyond your bias. If you want links, I can provide those as well.

 

[Jack Hays]

That's nonsense. There's plenty if blame to go around. Parents, students, teachers, administrators, elected officials, their appointees in the department of education, poverty, violent communities, drugs, and a culture that demeans teachers and being smart. You need to think beyond your bias. If you want links, I can provide those as well.

Provide whatever you want. I've already provided two links. I'm not arguing about blame placing. I'm saying the Obamanauts and the teacher unions should get out of the way and let reform proceed. And blaming the students is not an acceptable answer.eace

 

[Boo Radley]

The Holder-Jindal Collision

By MICHAEL WARREN

Here’s how it works: Public schools receive grades, from A to F (another Jindal reform), that tell teachers, parents, and policymakers how those schools are performing. A school that receives an F has, among other problems, at least half of its students performing below grade level. Schools that receive a C or lower are considered failing schools. Low-income students attending a failing school are eligible to apply for a voucher, and money that would otherwise go to their local school can instead be used to pay for tuition at a private school or a better performing public school.
Parents like the program, according to the governor’s office, with 93 percent approval from parents (mostly single moms) whose kids were awarded vouchers. Ninety percent of the recipients are minorities, which in Louisiana means they are overwhelmingly black. While most of the program’s students are in New Orleans, there are recipients everywhere from urban areas like Baton Rouge and Shreveport to the rural parishes north and south. Early results for the statewide program show improvement: From 2011 to 2013, students in “scholarship schools” did better on literacy and math tests than they did in their old schools, with a 7 percent increase in students performing at grade level in those areas.
Last year, 10,000 students applied for vouchers, and 5,000 received them. This year, the applicant pool jumped to 12,000, and 8,000 vouchers were awarded (the awards are made by lottery). The program’s growth may explain why the feds are suddenly interested.eace

The Weekly Standard. I'm shocked. :lamo:lamo:lamo

 

[Jack Hays]

The Weekly Standard. I'm shocked. :lamo:lamo:lamo

Dodging the substance, I see.:roll:

 

[Boo Radley]

Provide whatever you want. I've already provided two links. I'm not arguing about blame placing. I'm saying the Obamanauts and the teacher unions should get out of the way and let reform proceed. And blaming the students is not an acceptable answer.eace

I know you think you have as you don't question much. I get that. But even a failing grade doesn't tell us why by itself. Dig more.

 

[Boo Radley]

Dodging the substance, I see.:roll:

Nope. Just noting its not good evidence.

 

[Jack Hays]

I know you think you have as you don't question much. I get that. But even a failing grade doesn't tell us why by itself. Dig more.

I have been interested in this question for decades. Drop the unearned condescension. You are a defender of guild interests against the interests of children. Shame.:roll:

 

[Jack Hays]

Nope. Just noting its not good evidence.

As opposed to the -- nothing -- provided by you.:roll:

 

[Boo Radley]

I have been interested in this question for decades. Drop the unearned condescension. You are a defender of guild interests against the interests of children. Shame.:roll:

I don't know you that well, but you have a very myopic view of this issue. It's largely inaccurate, and your sourcing is skewed. If you sincerely want to be part of the solution, you'll dig deeper.

 

[Jack Hays]

I don't know you that well, but you have a very myopic view of this issue. It's largely inaccurate, and your sourcing is skewed. If you sincerely want to be part of the solution, you'll dig deeper.

And you need to stop enabling child abuse.:roll:

 

[Boo Radley]

As opposed to the -- nothing -- provided by you.:roll:

You suggested evidence wouldn't work for you. But I can provide anything you'll honestly look at.

 

[Boo Radley]

And you need to stop enabling child abuse.:roll:

Well that was an asinine comment.

 

[Jack Hays]

You suggested evidence wouldn't work for you. But I can provide anything you'll honestly look at.

I already asked you to provide your links, and I made no statement that I did not welcome evidence.:roll:

 

[Jack Hays]

Well that was an asinine comment.

On the contrary, it was a precise summary of the essence of your posts. Own it. You earned it.:roll:

 

[Boo Radley]

I already asked you to provide your links, and I made no statement that I did not welcome evidence.:roll:

Not true, but lets start with charter schools. They're selective, and yet do no better on the whole than public schools. Only 17% out perform public schools. 37% do much worse.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/02/opinion/more-lessons-about-charter-schools.html

 

[Jack Hays]

Not true, but lets start with charter schools. They're selective, and yet do no better on the whole than public schools. Only 17% out perform public schools. 37% do much worse.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/02/opinion/more-lessons-about-charter-schools.html

I have no quarrel with that, but it's beside the point. Some schools are going to do well, others not. I have nowhere claimed that charter schools are the complete answer. I just want our federal government to stop standing in the way of innovation and choice.eace

 

[Boo Radley]

I already asked you to provide your links, and I made no statement that I did not welcome evidence.:roll:

Or private schools:

Still, I was intrigued to read of a well-designed study released today by the Center on Education Policy that challenges decades of research on the advantages of private schools. "Contrary to popular belief, we can find no evidence that private schools actually increase student performance," said Jack Jennings, the center's president and a former staffer in the Democratic-controlled House, in a press release. "Instead, it appears that private schools simply have higher percentages of students who perform well in any environment based on their previous performance and background."

Read more: Are Private Schools Really Better? - TIME

 

[Boo Radley]

I have no quarrel with that, but it's beside the point. Some schools are going to do well, others not. I have nowhere claimed that charter schools are the complete answer. I just want our federal government to stop standing in the way of innovation and choice.eace

No better than public. But keep reading.