Why is the average firearm owner, an unsafe gun owner?

[CLAX1911]

It is clear you haven’t read the many lists here I’ve made about firearms.

I am a retired police detective and I have written extensively of the need for gun owners to be knowledgeable and safe in the ownership and use of their guns.

I speak to storage. I speak to knowledge of law and legal use of force. I speak to requirements to understand retention if one means to carry firearms. I speak to understanding that firing a gun under severe duress is nothing like firing one at a range at a paper target. One needs to know how drastic that difference is and how to cope with it. I speak to the need to qualify those proficiencies to be licensed to carry and to be indemnified against unfortunate outcomes.

I own and carry sidearms and I do all of that. I walk it as I talk it.

I think people think this way because they are opposed to laws regarding safe storage and what not but you know better than I do no law will make someone store their guns properly. That's an attitude you have to develop.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

It is clear you haven’t read the many lists here I’ve made about firearms.

I am a retired police detective and I have written extensively of the need for gun owners to be knowledgeable and safe in the ownership and use of their guns.

I speak to storage. I speak to knowledge of law and legal use of force. I speak to requirements to understand retention if one means to carry firearms. I speak to understanding that firing a gun under severe duress is nothing like firing one at a range at a paper target. One needs to know how drastic that difference is and how to cope with it. I speak to the need to qualify those proficiencies to be licensed to carry and to be indemnified against unfortunate outcomes.

I own and carry sidearms and I do all of that. I walk it as I talk it.

I don't doubt there are safe gun owners. I don't think there are many. And based on many of the answers I've received in this thread, most of them don't know anything about being safe with guns. It's a status title, not a tool that will be used in its intended role.

 

[stealthycat]

I don't doubt there are safe gun owners. I don't think there are many. And based on many of the answers I've received in this thread, most of them don't know anything about being safe with guns. It's a status title, not a tool that will be used in its intended role.

who gets to decide what "properly" or "safe storage" is ?

tell me what you think safe storage is ?

my GF has a .380 Sig ...... how would you have her "safe storage" her weapon at night when she wants it close by and easily accessible? her peace of mind requires that

 

[RF667799]

I don't doubt there are safe gun owners. I don't think there are many.

The accident rate tells a different story from what you think. But then, it's only reality.

And based on many of the answers I've received in this thread, most of them don't know anything about being safe with guns.

You have no basis to appoint yourself as authority on that.

It's a status title, not a tool that will be used in its intended role.

A gun is a "status title"? That makes no sense.

 

[jaeger19]

I don't doubt there are safe gun owners. I don't think there are many. And based on many of the answers I've received in this thread, most of them don't know anything about being safe with guns. It's a status title, not a tool that will be used in its intended role.

Well. I think the problem here is you have a poor understanding of about what firearms are used for and what constitutes safe handling of firearms.
Since you start from a place of ignorance it’s no wonder you make faulty judgements of gun owners.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

who gets to decide what "properly" or "safe storage" is ?

tell me what you think safe storage is ?

my GF has a .380 Sig ...... how would you have her "safe storage" her weapon at night when she wants it close by and easily accessible? her peace of mind requires that

I'm going to say a medical doctor gets to decide what safe storage is, and a researcher who looks at what is a more deadly use of firearms.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

Well. I think the problem here is you have a poor understanding of about what firearms are used for and what constitutes safe handling of firearms.
Since you start from a place of ignorance it’s no wonder you make faulty judgements of gun owners.

I have a NRA gun instructor here who doesn't know how to spot someone who might use their gun to kill themselves, I think I'm very qualified to make that call. And seeing as how most people here in this thread don't store their firearms properly... I'm feeling very qualified to say the average gun owner isn't safe with firearms.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

The accident rate tells a different story from what you think. But then, it's only reality.

Well it sounds like you think that domestic violence is a legitimate use of guns. If you're not saying that please make that clear now.

You have no basis to appoint yourself as authority on that.

My OP says otherwise.

A gun is a "status title"? That makes no sense.

To someone who doesn't know a lot about the history of firearms, they might not know that owning a firearm is a status title. But when we remember the history of the US and who was allowed to use and operate firearms, it makes a lot of sense. Heck even now firearms are in many regards treated as a status symbol.

 

[jaeger19]

I have a NRA gun instructor here who doesn't know how to spot someone who might use their gun to kill themselves, I think I'm very qualified to make that call. And seeing as how most people here in this thread don't store their firearms properly... I'm feeling very qualified to say the average gun owner isn't safe with firearms.

Well of course. Please explain how an nra instructor is going to “ spot” someone who might use a firearm to kill themselves?

I happen to be a medical provider and I know that we have no training to simply “ spot” someone who has suicidal ideation .

Please explain how you simply spot someone with suicide ideation in a crowd of people.

Let’s start there. Then we can further discuss “ storing firearms properly”

You did pretty poorly last time contending that
If a person keeps their own firearm in a safe and their ammunition elsewhere that this reduces the chance of them getting access to their own firearms.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

Well of course. Please explain how an nra instructor is going to “ spot” someone who might use a firearm to kill themselves?

Are you asking me for specific policy suggestions or just the basics of "how do we train people to spot suicides of suicidal ideation"?

I happen to be a medical provider and I know that we have no training to simply “ spot” someone who has suicidal ideation .

Please explain how you simply spot someone with suicide ideation in a crowd of people.

Let’s start there. Then we can further discuss “ storing firearms properly”

You did pretty poorly last time contending that
If a person keeps their own firearm in a safe and their ammunition elsewhere that this reduces the chance of them getting access to their own firearms.

You're telling me you don't have any sort of tests or standards that can be used to figure out if someone might be a risk to themselves?

I'm so sorry to ask this but I want you to answer this. What kind of medical professional are you because I've been to the doctors enough to know, they can screen a person for suicidal ideation. Do these questions ring a bell?

1. Do you have a suicide plan?
2. Do you have thoughts of hurting yourself or others?
3. Do you have the means to act on these thoughts?

 

[RF667799]

Well it sounds like you think that domestic violence is a legitimate use of guns. If you're not saying that please make that clear now.

It doesn't sound like I'm saying that at all.

My OP says otherwise.

Yeah? Quote where you are designated as authority.

To someone who doesn't know a lot about the history of firearms, they might not know that owning a firearm is a status title. But when we remember the history of the US and who was allowed to use and operate firearms, it makes a lot of sense. Heck even now firearms are in many regards treated as a status symbol.

You're just repeating yourself.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

It doesn't sound like I'm saying that at all.

So irresponsible gun owners are gun owners who use their firearms for domestic violence. Which is something my OP goes into detail on. Glad you agree.

Yeah? Quote where you are designated as authority.

For what?

You're just repeating yourself.

Cool. Anything else you want to add?

 

[Rich2018]

No I think there's a lot of people like you. Particularly intellectually lazy people who spat out propaganda that they don't even believe themselves in hopes that you trickle information people to the point where you get them to buy into your nonsense.

Can you name one "intellectually lazy person", who spits out propaganda, and also cite the "propaganda" in question ?

 

[RF667799]

So irresponsible gun owners are gun owners who use their firearms for domestic violence. Which is something my OP goes into detail on. Glad you agree.


For what?

For your claim that most of the gun owners on this site are unsafe with their guns. You're not an authority on that. I'm finding it hard to believe you know enough to have an opinion that anyone should care about.

Cool. Anything else you want to add?

 

[Scatty Kitty]

For your claim that most of the gun owners on this site are unsafe with their guns. You're not an authority on that. I'm finding it hard to believe you know enough to have an opinion that anyone should care about.

Reread the post that I made then get back to me on that.

 

[RF667799]

Reread the post that I made then get back to me on that.

I'm betting it doesn't designate you as authority in any reference you posted, and you don't display enough knowledge or intellectual honesty to accept you designating yourself as an authority.

 

[jaeger19]

Are you asking me for specific policy suggestions or just the basics of "how do we train people to spot suicides of suicidal ideation"?


You're telling me you don't have any sort of tests or standards that can be used to figure out if someone might be a risk to themselves?

I'm so sorry to ask this but I want you to answer this. What kind of medical professional are you because I've been to the doctors enough to know, they can screen a person for suicidal ideation. Do these questions ring a bell?

1. Do you have a suicide plan?
2. Do you have thoughts of hurting yourself or others?
3. Do you have the means to act on these thoughts?

I see. So there is no “ spotting” someone.

You aren’t talking about “spotting “ someone through visual cues.

You are talking about doing some sort of interview or question process?

Okay. Explain how that works .
The instructor arrives at the gun range for a concealed carry basic safety class .
Thirty students assemble at the outside range and take seats for the beginner safety class.

Now what?
Do you ask for a show of hands:
1.Do you have a suicide plan?
2. Do you have thoughts of hurting yourself or others?
3. Do you have the means to act on these thoughts?

Exactly how is this screening process going to take place?
Why do you think that this will be an effective screening for suicide?
Do you think that people who are contemplating suicide are going to confide in an nra instructor they just met??
What liability does the nra instructor have for doing this screening and essentially obtaining their medical information?
Should nra instructors be required to do such screening and if so what’s the penalty for non compliance.

 

[RF667799]

Are you asking me for specific policy suggestions or just the basics of "how do we train people to spot suicides of suicidal ideation"?


You're telling me you don't have any sort of tests or standards that can be used to figure out if someone might be a risk to themselves?

I'm so sorry to ask this but I want you to answer this. What kind of medical professional are you because I've been to the doctors enough to know, they can screen a person for suicidal ideation. Do these questions ring a bell?

1. Do you have a suicide plan?
2. Do you have thoughts of hurting yourself or others?
3. Do you have the means to act on these thoughts?

I've never had a doctor ask me any of those questions. What sort of ailments are you seeing these doctors for, that they would ask you those things?

 

[CLAX1911]

I don't doubt there are safe gun owners. I don't think there are many.

That's not based on reality that's based on your feelings. Being unsafe for the gun becomes very deadly very quick. Estimates put over a third of the US are gun owners if most of them were unsafe they're be a lot more deaths and injuries.

And based on many of the answers I've received in this thread,

So based on absolutely no objective data at all?

most of them don't know anything about being safe with guns. It's a status title, not a tool that will be used in its intended role.

Again being unsafe for the guns becomes very deadly very quick. Ask them how many people live injured or how many times they have injured themselves I bet it's zero across the board that means they're being safe and your threshold is artificial.

That's using data.

 

[CLAX1911]

I've never had a doctor ask me any of those questions. What sort of ailments are you seeing these doctors for, that they would ask you those things?

A doctor may ask this if you fit into a category that has a high suicide rate. I remember when I told my doctor I was gay, he asked me if I was okay with it and said he'd recommend a psychologist if I asked.

I never had a questions about suicide though. I did see a shrink a couple of times though.

 

[RF667799]

A doctor may ask this if you fit into a category that has a high suicide rate. I remember when I told my doctor I was gay, he asked me if I was okay with it and said he'd recommend a psychologist if I asked.

I never had a questions about suicide though. I did see a shrink a couple of times though.

Her question 3 is kind of stupid. No, it's absolutely stupid: Do you have the means to act on these thoughts?

I hope doctors aren't generally that thick. Virtually everyone has the means unless they're locked up...and even then they're sometimes successful.

 

[CLAX1911]

Her question 3 is kind of stupid. No, it's absolutely stupid: Do you have the means to act on these thoughts?

If you're having those thoughts it's probably in the doctor's interest to ask or friends and family.

I hope doctors aren't generally that thick. Virtually everyone has the means unless they're locked up...and even then they're sometimes successful.

Means and opportunity can always exist and will always exist but motive is where it becomes dangerous

 

[RF667799]

If you're having those thoughts it's probably in the doctor's interest to ask or friends and family.

Means and opportunity can always exist and will always exist but motive is where it becomes dangerous

Like I said. Given that virtually everyone has the means, it's an inordinately silly question to ask.

 

[CLAX1911]

Like I said. Given that virtually everyone has the means, it's an inordinately silly question to ask.

Unless you're dealing with someone new fits a demographic with a high level of suicide. It's not any reason to suspend anyone's gun rights and I've certainly never had a doctor ask me question like that. I think I would laugh at them if they did.

 

[RF667799]

Unless you're dealing with someone new fits a demographic with a high level of suicide. It's not any reason to suspend anyone's gun rights and I've certainly never had a doctor ask me question like that. I think I would laugh at them if they did.

@Scatty Kitty maybe thinks that concealed carry instructors should be asking the question on the range.

"Now...does anyone have the means to commit suicide?"

I would ask him if the anchor rope on my boat counts.