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Why is Russia an enemy?

Helix said:
we should put off the dick measuring contests with Russia until after we repair and expand our infrastructure, fix our health care system, send our kids to college without putting them in serious debt, and change our transportation energy model. the time for bar fightin' isn't when your own roof is leaking. get up there and fix that ****, and then you can go flex your muscles at the dude who looked at you wrong. even then, though, it's a poor idea, IMO.
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Agreed. Invest in our own homeland and our own people - building us up - not tearing down others.
 
Tigerace117 said:
You could make a strong case that the Ukrainain insurgency and the Syrian Expedition are Putin flexing.
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Oh, you mean the same Ukraine where the US helped install a puppet government that took orders from the US? Or the "Syrian Expedition" where the US funded "moderate Islamists" aka ISIS and Al-Qaeda fighters to overthrow the Syrian government? The same "moderate Islamists" who also used sarin nerve gas?
 
c0wardlyli0n said:
Oh, you mean the same Ukraine where the US helped install a puppet government that took orders from the US? Or the "Syrian Expedition" where the US funded "moderate Islamists" aka ISIS and Al-Qaeda fighters to overthrow the Syrian government? The same "moderate Islamists" who also used sarin nerve gas?
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Okay, first off--- ever hear of the FSA? The same group which, while certainly not the dominant force on the ground, is still handing on? Or the Kurds, for that matter?

As I recall, it hasn't even been conclusively proven that the rebels used the chemical weapons. So either Assad's forces used said weapons or they weren't competent enough to stop the looting of said weapons.

And where's you proof that Washington gives orders to Kiev?
 
c0wardlyli0n said:
Oh, you mean the same Ukraine where the US helped install a puppet government that took orders from the US? Or the "Syrian Expedition" where the US funded "moderate Islamists" aka ISIS and Al-Qaeda fighters to overthrow the Syrian government? The same "moderate Islamists" who also used sarin nerve gas?
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We funded Al-Qaeda and ISIS? Really? Show me.
 
c0wardlyli0n said:
I would love an explanation as to why I should support any politician that instigates hostilities toward Russia.
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Because the marketing arm of the Military Industrial Corporate Comples needs an enemy to justify $700 Billion budgets and the uninterrupted profit stream. Rent politicians to approve thsoe budgets and everybody profits, well, except the taxpayers and a whole friggin' slew of dead Muslims. Bussia bad, budget up a little. Russia real bad, budget up a little more. Russia is the devil in the flesh, budget up even more. Russia evil and won't kowtow to USA hegemony and they eat babies and Budgets up beaucoup. Marketing. USA Style.
 
All US presence in the middle east and surrounding Russia is to protect the petrodollar. If Iran, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Russia and China cease trading oil for dollars, the US economy will collapse. The petrodollar is the ONLY reason the US is still in a position to be meddling overseas.
 
At this stage they're more like frenemies.
 
Russian expansionism and military aggression amongst its neighbours is the reason.

You may disagree that this is occurring, but it is the reason nonetheless.

The Crimean annexation in retaliation for Viktor Yanukovych's overthrow was precisely that; their referendum of secession didn't even have an option to remain with Ukraine, to say nothing about the questionable nature of the vote, and the obviously criminal nature of straight up invading a sovereign country to draft and enforce that referendum; yes the US certainly doesn't have its hands clean in that regard, but two wrongs obviously don't make a right.
 
Surrealistik said:
Russian expansionism and military aggression amongst its neighbours is the reason.
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Every country uses that line to justify their aggression. In reality, Putin's Russia has hardly done anything not in the interests of all parties involved. The Americans' infantile positions are inconsequential
 
Fishking said:
Eh...because communism?

I honestly don't know why we have to have such poor relations with Russia. We have better relations with plenty of other countries that have worse human rights records and such. The only thing I can really think of is to fight over resources, but then we'd have to include China in that. But, once you factor in the resources spent fighting for resources, I'm not sure what you're netting.

Oh! I know...we have to have a boggie man so we can keep our defense industry going. It's one of the few things we actually still make and export on a large scale in our country. Would be hell on our economy for that to take a hit.
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Communism? Russia?
What'd I miss?
 
Iron Cross said:
Every country uses that line to justify their aggression. In reality, Putin's Russia has hardly done anything not in the interests of all parties involved. The Americans' infantile positions are inconsequential
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Do tell:roll:

Just like getting swallowed up by Germany was in Czechoslovakia's "best interests", right?
 
Iron Cross said:
Every country uses that line to justify their aggression. In reality, Putin's Russia has hardly done anything not in the interests of all parties involved. The Americans' infantile positions are inconsequential
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I very much doubt that Russian annexation of Crimea was in the interests of Europe, the States, or Ukraine.
 
Tigerace117 said:
I'd say we did stop the Cold War. After all, what was all that mid nineties soul searching for otherwise?

Also, I just noticed I'm a guru. That's pretty cool lol.
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We had a period of time with much reduced tensions between our countries but we never stopped growing NATO and encircling Russia with military bases.
 
Fishking said:
We had a period of time with much reduced tensions between our countries but we never stopped growing NATO and encircling Russia with military bases.
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Yeah, because all those ex East Bloc countries wanted insurance that the Russians wouldn't try to prop puppet regimes back into place, and frankly I don't blame them.

Russia is also a ****ing huge place. It takes up a huge chunk of the globe, and there's lots of land surrounding it.
 
sookster said:
I think Putin has a different philosophy than the powers at be in America and the west. We are very imperialistic with how we handle the world and getting access to resources below market value. It's becoming unnecessary, and that lust for more resources started ISIL.

Putin seems to be more laid back. Content. I'm sure he will do anything for the best interest of Russia, but he isn't going to conquer actively like we have been doing. So I think he keeps an eye out, but he is letting things work themselves out while he can be productive in other avenues.
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Putin will do what Russian leaders have always done. He'll try to put as deep a buffer between Russia and the rest of Europe as he can. Hell, Russian leaders consider Russians a buffer, something an invader must wade through. Poland, the Balkans, the Baltic republics, if Putin could he'd encircle them all again, just for the security it would offer Russia.
 
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Blue is US military presence and the red is Russia.
 
Surrealistik said:
Russian expansionism and military aggression amongst its neighbours is the reason.

You may disagree that this is occurring, but it is the reason nonetheless.

The Crimean annexation in retaliation for Viktor Yanukovych's overthrow was precisely that; their referendum of secession didn't even have an option to remain with Ukraine, to say nothing about the questionable nature of the vote, and the obviously criminal nature of straight up invading a sovereign country to draft and enforce that referendum; yes the US certainly doesn't have its hands clean in that regard, but two wrongs obviously don't make a right.
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You mean the illegal western backed government overthrow in Ukraine, a border nation to Russia? And Crimea, which really was never fully part of Russia and never rightly belonged to them and also held their only warm-water naval base?

That doesn't sound very aggressive to me.
 
Grand Mal said:
Putin will do what Russian leaders have always done. He'll try to put as deep a buffer between Russia and the rest of Europe as he can. Hell, Russian leaders consider Russians a buffer, something an invader must wade through. Poland, the Balkans, the Baltic republics, if Putin could he'd encircle them all again, just for the security it would offer Russia.
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While I can understands the effect Barbarossa had on the Russian psyche, and sympathize, other countries have a right to own their own land too.
 
c0wardlyli0n said:
I would love an explanation as to why I should support any politician that instigates hostilities toward Russia.
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Because russia opposes much of what we do, and in their defense, much of what we do is directly harmful to them. Since the colapse of the soviet union, russia is pretty much surrounded by nato or us allies, Which any country would see as hostile, add to that missile defense systems aimed towards russia but claimed to stop iranian missiles from hitting europe.

Basically The united states has cornered them and eliminated their influence, which could very well be seen as hostile, which makes sense why they would just as easily push back, no country sits back and takes it if they have enough power to do otherwise. Russia and america were absolute enemies under the cold war, friends under bush senior and clinton, and enemies again by bush junior.
 
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