Why Is No One (Except the President) Calling Out Kamala Harris’s Communist Ties?

[Nickyjo]

The claim was made about the central part of California and regardless of the reality California is a social and fiscal disaster having the 5th largest economy in the world and the results generated for the people. You focus on non issues like weather, beaches, and mountains not on the failure of liberalism to deliver results promised from all that spending in the name of compassion.

I really suggest a history and civics course so you understand the role of the state and local governments which actually operate outside you liberal bubble and find out what is actually going on in your state. Then tell me why you want the country to be like California?

You have it wrong. It’s the country that wants to be like California...

 

[ElChupacabra]

So to you socialism is all about abolishing private ownership? Where in the hell did you get your education? Risk taking, hard work, individual wealth creation doesn't exist in your world, incentive is destroyed and people are dependent on who?? Powerful socialists don't have to control private property, only individuals by creating dependence as you never bite the hand that feeds you. You tell me what it is about Harris that has motivated you to support her?

In the definition of the term, yes. Since the definition is clear, and anyone who has read Marx/Engles understands the theory, I'm not sure why you're questioning anyone else's education when you're the one displaying a poor understanding of the word. The problem is the term has been used by some to refer to any type of effort at creating social programs. It's an old tactic that's been used against Medicare, Social Security etc.

so·cial·ism
/ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/
noun

a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

 

[Conservative]

I know where I am, and I know where your wife is too. She's in the ground.

Christian religion doesn't bother me. The people who proselytize it do.

I don't see any reason to continue this, bye! What a classless thing to say

 

[Conservative]

You have it wrong. It’s the country that wants to be like California...

Yep, beautiful state, love the tent cities, all the poverty, homeless, and high cost of living. Yep, California here I come. So great people are fleeing the state wonder why?

 

[Conservative]

In the definition of the term, yes. Since the definition is clear, and anyone who has read Marx/Engles understands the theory, I'm not sure why you're questioning anyone else's education when you're the one displaying a poor understanding of the word. The problem is the term has been used by some to refer to any type of effort at creating social programs. It's an old tactic that's been used against Medicare, Social Security etc.

so·cial·ism
/ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/
noun

a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

Yep, community ownership, how does that fit into your business model?

 

[Irredentist]

I don't see any reason to continue this, bye! What a classless thing to say

Everything you say is classless. Did you expect courtesy in return?

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

So to you socialism is all about abolishing private ownership? Where in the hell did you get your education?

From reading the works of Marx and Engels directly. They define it in no uncertain terms.

Risk taking, hard work, individual wealth creation doesn't exist in your world, incentive is destroyed and people are dependent on who??

On the contrary, like Harris, I am a capitalist.

It is funny you should mention hard work though. Being rewarded for hard work is a Socialist value. The distinguishing feature of Capitalism is that it does not require hard work to acquire wealth. The entire point of capitalism is to make your wealth work for you instead of working for it.

Powerful socialists don't have to control private property, only individuals by creating dependence as you never bite the hand that feeds you. You tell me what it is about Harris that has motivated you to support her?

That isn't Socialism. Quite the opposite. Panem et circenses is a means to prevent Socialism. Its entire purpose is to serve as a pressure relief valve on class antagonism; to placate the proletariat who might otherwise engage in violent uprisings. As you said, the proletariat will not bite the hand that feeds them. So as long as the hand keeps feeding, they won't rise up and seize the means of production.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Yep, community ownership, how does that fit into your business model?

Except no one is talking about community ownership. It's why I use the "SHERSHALIST!!1!!" term rather than socialism because the version to which you refer is just a scare tactic to lump in social programs with red scare tactics. That the rest of the industrialized world is ahead of us in providing robust social programs all while being productive capitalist economies, will always be the first example to deflate your premise.

 

[Tigerace117]

Look, this is going nowhere, you are stating opinions that aren't back by the facts as you never post any facts. How is the Federal gov't going to keep state governments in line, have you read the 10th Amendment?

Wasting money on Trump supporters? Why are you so partisan and full of hatred for Trump supporters, over 63 million of them? You don't seem to care about liberal governments as apparently you have no problem with people fleeing those states for Red States and had no problem deducting your high state and local taxes from your federal return until Trump capped that deduction. Why should state and local taxes which fund state and local services be deducted from federal taxes which fund federal programs?

Tell us exactly what Trump has done that has created this hatred and resonates with the American people?

Gee, other than turning a blind eye to terrorism, attacking POWs, the family of a war hero, entire religions and ethnicities, the military, and just about everyone else?

The federal government has numerous ways to keep conservatives from violating the constitutional rights of other Americans. The 10th Amendment does not override the 14th Amendment and civil rights legislation. It’s about time you lot figured that out.

Sixty three million fifth columnists more loyal to Donnie Draft Dodger than America. Not a single dollar should be wasted on health care, road maintenance, jobs programs.... anything, really, in those areas.

 

[Conservative]

From reading the works of Marx and Engels directly. They define it in no uncertain terms.



On the contrary, like Harris, I am a capitalist.

It is funny you should mention hard work though. Being rewarded for hard work is a Socialist value. The distinguishing feature of Capitalism is that it does not require hard work to acquire wealth. The entire point of capitalism is to make your wealth work for you instead of working for it.



That isn't Socialism. Quite the opposite. Panem et circenses is a means to prevent Socialism. Its entire purpose is to serve as a pressure relief valve on class antagonism; to placate the proletariat who might otherwise engage in violent uprisings. As you said, the proletariat will not bite the hand that feeds them. So as long as the hand keeps feeding, they won't rise up and seize the means of production.

Name for me where socialism has been successful and where hard work is recognized by individual wealth creation? Your comments are typical of far too many people today probably young people who simply have that entitlement mentality where you are owed something. I was never raised that way, learned personal responsibility and to celebrate success.

 

[Conservative]

Except no one is talking about community ownership. It's why I use the "SHERSHALIST!!1!!" term rather than socialism because the version to which you refer is just a scare tactic to lump in social programs with red scare tactics. That the rest of the industrialized world is ahead of us in providing robust social programs all while being productive capitalist economies, will always be the first example to deflate your premise.

There is more to socialism than community ownership's textbook definition. Control of production doesn't require ownership, only legislation, California comes as close to socialism in this country as it is a country controlled by liberal legislation and control of the masses by creating dependence through legislation. you deny that reality and cannot define Harris as anything less than a socialist wanting to control production of results by creating them through gov't spending and creation of dependence

 

[Conservative]

Gee, other than turning a blind eye to terrorism, attacking POWs, the family of a war hero, entire religions and ethnicities, the military, and just about everyone else?

The federal government has numerous ways to keep conservatives from violating the constitutional rights of other Americans. The 10th Amendment does not override the 14th Amendment and civil rights legislation. It’s about time you lot figured that out.

Sixty three million fifth columnists more loyal to Donnie Draft Dodger than America. Not a single dollar should be wasted on health care, road maintenance, jobs programs.... anything, really, in those areas.

pet
You do realize this is 2020, right? are you going to define Harris for us or continue to campaign for the 2016 Presidential elections. Stunning how much hatred is built up in so many individuals who cannot define how Trump has hurt them in anyway. You have no idea what you are talking about, what taxes you pay and purpose, and where social responsibility lies. I feel so sorry for people like you for when you realize what a pawn you have been for liberalism it is too late.

Healthcare is a state and local issue, road maintenance is funded by excise taxes state and local, jobs programs are state responsibility. Please take a civics class, read the 10th amendment before it is too late.

 

[ElChupacabra]

There is more to socialism than community ownership's textbook definition. Control of production doesn't require ownership, only legislation, California comes as close to socialism in this country as it is a country controlled by liberal legislation and control of the masses by creating dependence through legislation. you deny that reality and cannot define Harris as anything less than a socialist wanting to control production of results by creating them through gov't spending and creation of dependence

You're just repeating the talking points on socialism your political lean tends to dish out. California does not own the means of production through legislation either, and the regulation isn't by the community since we have a representative system of government. To critique California's legislation is one thing, but to call it "socialism" just isn't accurate even in the loose definition of the term. This "creating dependence" is just another trope that's thrown out to demonize certain policies, because it starts off with the premise people as a whole want to be dependent on government and have no other ambition. Again, that's disproven both here and in other industrialized nations with robust social programs.

 

[Conservative]

You're just repeating the talking points on socialism your political lean tends to dish out. California does not own the means of production through legislation either, and the regulation isn't by the community since we have a representative system of government. To critique California's legislation is one thing, but to call it "socialism" just isn't accurate even in the loose definition of the term. This "creating dependence" is just another trope that's thrown out to demonize certain policies, because it starts off with the premise people as a whole want to be dependent on government and have no other ambition. Again, that's disproven both here and in other industrialized nations with robust social programs.

OMG, this is typical bullshit coming from you, you don't have to own production to control it and that is what Harris and Biden are trying to do and that is what California has done, they control the production of housing, the control the production of healthcare, they control the production of wealth, getting rather sick and tired of your liberal bs and ignorance of reality. Regardless of how the election turns out I won't be here to gloat telling you how wrong you are or to take any more of your socialist, gov't controlled ideology

By the way I voted last Tuesday for Trump and cannot find many Biden signs anywhere near me or surrounding areas, Trump signs at least 6 to 1. People value freedom over gov't mandates and legislation

 

[ElChupacabra]

OMG, this is typical bullshit coming from you, you don't have to own production to control it and that is what Harris and Biden are trying to do and that is what California has done, they control the production of housing, the control the production of healthcare, they control the production of wealth, getting rather sick and tired of your liberal bs and ignorance of reality. Regardless of how the election turns out I won't be here to gloat telling you how wrong you are or to take any more of your socialist, gov't controlled ideology

The BS is what you're spewing; clearly demonstrating you don't even know how to use the term socialism correctly. None of what you're saying is accurate in the context of socialism. Is California over regulated? Sure, that's a valid argument; especially in some areas. Is that socialism? Nope. What you're doing is just throwing out a term that you continually hear rather than just critiquing specific policies. You just continue to make bad arguments, so getting upset people call you out on it doesn't make much sense on a debate site.

 

[Conservative]

The BS is what you're spewing; clearly demonstrating you don't even know how to use the term socialism correctly. None of what you're saying is accurate in the context of socialism. Is California over regulated? Sure, that's a valid argument; especially in some areas. Is that socialism? Nope. What you're doing is just throwing out a term that you continually hear rather than just critiquing specific policies. You just continue to make bad arguments, so getting upset people call you out on it doesn't make much sense on a debate site.

Seems it is you that focuses on ownership in the literal sense not the legislative or logical sense. Gov't control of the economy through legislation is the march to socialism as individuals aren't able to own property due to the high costs and regulations associated with it. The argument you use ignores that reality

 

[ElChupacabra]

Seems it is you that focuses on ownership in the literal sense not the legislative or logical sense. Gov't control of the economy through legislation is the march to socialism as individuals aren't able to own property due to the high costs and regulations associated with it. The argument you use ignores that reality

What you stated about "legislative or logical sense" is not accurate either as it relates to the theory of socialism Marx and Engel espoused. One can live in a heavily regulated capitalist society as well without it being. I know it's hard to not use generalizations, since they're a lazy way of applying scary labels to thing instead of actually discussing the problems specifically. Individuals aren't able to own property due to the high demand for real estate in certain areas; that's capitalism at work; the old "supply and demand". The accurate critique is the heavy handed use of zoning/housing regulations that have prevented new housing in high demand areas.

I am not sure what argument you're trying to make here as it relates to the price of housing. So should any given area be affordable to every one; and if so, what mechanism would you use to implement this theory?

 

[Conservative]

What you stated about "legislative or logical sense" is not accurate either as it relates to the theory of socialism Marx and Engel espoused. One can live in a heavily regulated capitalist society as well without it being. I know it's hard to not use generalizations, since they're a lazy way of applying scary labels to thing instead of actually discussing the problems specifically. Individuals aren't able to own property due to the high demand for real estate in certain areas; that's capitalism at work; the old "supply and demand". The accurate critique is the heavy handed use of zoning/housing regulations that have prevented new housing in high demand areas.

I am not sure what argument you're trying to make here as it relates to the price of housing. So should any given area be affordable to every one; and if so, what mechanism would you use to implement this theory?

Gov't control or socialism comes in many forms, you haven't figured that out yet and when you to it will be too late

 

[Tigerace117]

pet
You do realize this is 2020, right? are you going to define Harris for us or continue to campaign for the 2016 Presidential elections. Stunning how much hatred is built up in so many individuals who cannot define how Trump has hurt them in anyway. You have no idea what you are talking about, what taxes you pay and purpose, and where social responsibility lies. I feel so sorry for people like you for when you realize what a pawn you have been for liberalism it is too late.

Healthcare is a state and local issue, road maintenance is funded by excise taxes state and local, jobs programs are state responsibility. Please take a civics class, read the 10th amendment before it is too late.

Trump has literally tried to copy and paste his 2020 effort......which is a big part of why his efforts have utterly fallen flat. It’s not at all stunning how delusional the Trump cult is. Knowing tax money goes to help fifth columnist anti Americans like yourself is a rather damning indictment of the current system. You simply aren’t intelligent enough to realize why people oppose your cult leader.

Which is why all federal funding to Trump supporting states should be cut off....immediately.

 

[Conservative]

Trump has literally tried to copy and paste his 2020 effort......which is a big part of why his efforts have utterly fallen flat. It’s not at all stunning how delusional the Trump cult is. Knowing tax money goes to help fifth columnist anti Americans like yourself is a rather damning indictment of the current system. You simply aren’t intelligent enough to realize why people oppose your cult leader.

Which is why all federal funding to Trump supporting states should be cut off....immediately.

Still waiting for you to tell us what exactly Trump has done since taking office that hasn't benefited you and your family? You have any problem with Pelosi's plan to use taxpayer money to bail out states from their financial problems? You speak like a typical corrupt Chicago political leader who ignores the problems in your own backyard

 

[Tigerace117]

Still waiting for you to tell us what exactly Trump has done since taking office that hasn't benefited you and your family? You have any problem with Pelosi's plan to use taxpayer money to bail out states from their financial problems? You speak like a typical corrupt Chicago political leader who ignores the problems in your own backyard

His abandonment of our allies, his turning a blind eye to far right terrorism, his laughable mishandling of COVID, his attacks on POWs, the family of a war hero, and any numerous other groups....it really does go on and on, and no amount of you wailing about Chicago changes that.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Gov't control or socialism comes in many forms, you haven't figured that out yet and when you to it will be too late

Again, you're conflating a political/economic theory with concerns you have about over regulation. You apply your binary thinking in this argument as well because your implication is government regulation leads to socialism, which is quite a stretch.

 

[Conservative]

Again, you're conflating a political/economic theory with concerns you have about over regulation. You apply your binary thinking in this argument as well because your implication is government regulation leads to socialism, which is quite a stretch.

And you are focused on the book definition of socialism not the practical definition of socialism, you tell me that gov't doesn't influence and control private investment through tax and regulations?

 

[goldkam]

OM, what the hell are you talking about? No Medicare for All, what does expansion of Obamacare do and why is this even a federal responsibility?

I am speaking the truth. Expansion of Obamacare with a public option. I will repeat a public option. Biden has been clear on this issue.

I will tell you why it is a federal responsibility:
The health care system is broken and requires state intervention to both incentivize people to purchase healthcare and expand coverage to ensure the people who have healthcare are either a) being given a better deal through greater competition facilitated in a system where public and private sectors are competing and b) getting covered for the necessary illnesses and diseases they deserve to be covered for.

Biden's plan is advocating for a very similar healthcare system to Australia and I can tell you from all accounts Australia has one of the most effective, affordable and reputable health care systems in the world.....and guess what....Government intervention is a fundamental pillar of it.

Do you have any idea how much Biden/Harris proposals are going to cost and why do you buy the rhetoric that only the rich are going to see their taxes raised? Repeal of the Trump tax cut does what to your taxes? this is all about again fully deducting your state and local taxes from your federal return thus having Blue states with higher state and local taxes than Red states having larger deductions paying less in taxes

$850 billion over the next decade, investment which will save lives, protect more Americans and provide a healthier America. You seem to centralise your argument on cost....reforming and improving any system is costly but you have to weigh up the costs of not reforming or changing the system.

This academic article provides insight into this.....https://www.irp.wisc.edu/publications/focus/pdfs/foc142e.pdf

Russia isn't our problem, China is with its 1.4 billion people. How has Trump benefited Russia?? NATO is stronger and NATO is in Russia's backyard. Stop buying rhetoric as they are making a fool out of your

So interfering in the 2016 election isn't our problem?
So putting bounties on American soldiers heads isn't our problem?

Because Trump hasn't stood up to Russia, he has mandated their bad behavior. What has Trump done to stand up to Russia?

I also don't disagree China is a problem but its not the 1.4 billion people that is you have missed the mark, its the tyrannical communist party that is.

Finally, I am not buying rhetoric. I am stating facts of which you are ignoring. I am interested to see you answer the questions I have posed.

'Trump is having an impact': NATO head credits president's tough talk for $100B boost

Jens Stoltenberg, the NATO secretary general, said Trump is helping the alliance adapt to "a more unpredictable world."

www.usatoday.com

That has no credibility. One flimsy article from a .com mainstream media website. Come on.

You will never get it, social issues are state and local responsibility not federal responsibilities. You worry about same sex marriage and homosexuality? take it up in your state

I am not denying that. I never have. Isn't the federal Government supposed to embody the Constitution though?

The passion you and the left have against Trump is disgusting and anti American. Trump has done nothing to harm you, your family or the country as today 56% of the American people in a Gallup survey say they are better off than they were 4years ago and that is what truly should matter not your propaganda and personal opinions. You cannot be objective regarding Trump because of liberal indoctrination as the results don't support your claims

Anti-American to want to have better and more effective healthcare
Anti-American to want to hold the President accountable
Anti-American for disagreeing with anti-homosexuality
Anti-American for disagreeing with slavery
Anti-American for disagreeing with policies of an opposing party

Talk about trying to gag debate and anyone else from speaking out about something you don't believe in. In my view, Trump has undermined the fundamental values and principles of America (many of which I embody in my life).

To finish up. Your indoctrination is blinding....hurling the stereotypical 'liberal indoctrination', 'propaganda' and 'leftist' arguments at me. I have a case. I have a view that can be supported with facts. I have asked valid and reasonable question that I expect you to answer. This is a debatable topic, I accept that, you seem to not understand this or free speech for that matter.

 

[Conservative]

I am speaking the truth. Expansion of Obamacare with a public option. I will repeat a public option. Biden has been clear on this issue.

I will tell you why it is a federal responsibility:
The health care system is broken and requires state intervention to both incentivize people to purchase healthcare and expand coverage to ensure the people who have healthcare are either a) being given a better deal through greater competition facilitated in a system where public and private sectors are competing and b) getting covered for the necessary illnesses and diseases they deserve to be covered for.

Biden's plan is advocating for a very similar healthcare system to Australia and I can tell you from all accounts Australia has one of the most effective, affordable and reputable health care systems in the world.....and guess what....Government intervention is a fundamental pillar of it.



$850 billion over the next decade, investment which will save lives, protect more Americans and provide a healthier America. You seem to centralise your argument on cost....reforming and improving any system is costly but you have to weigh up the costs of not reforming or changing the system.

This academic article provides insight into this.....https://www.irp.wisc.edu/publications/focus/pdfs/foc142e.pdf



So interfering in the 2016 election isn't our problem?
So putting bounties on American soldiers heads isn't our problem?

Because Trump hasn't stood up to Russia, he has mandated their bad behavior. What has Trump done to stand up to Russia?

I also don't disagree China is a problem but its not the 1.4 billion people that is you have missed the mark, its the tyrannical communist party that is.

Finally, I am not buying rhetoric. I am stating facts of which you are ignoring. I am interested to see you answer the questions I have posed.



That has no credibility. One flimsy article from a .com mainstream media website. Come on.



I am not denying that. I never have. Isn't the federal Government supposed to embody the Constitution though?



Anti-American to want to have better and more effective healthcare
Anti-American to want to hold the President accountable
Anti-American for disagreeing with anti-homosexuality
Anti-American for disagreeing with slavery
Anti-American for disagreeing with policies of an opposing party

Talk about trying to gag debate and anyone else from speaking out about something you don't believe in. In my view, Trump has undermined the fundamental values and principles of America (many of which I embody in my life).

To finish up. Your indoctrination is blinding....hurling the stereotypical 'liberal indoctrination', 'propaganda' and 'leftist' arguments at me. I have a case. I have a view that can be supported with facts. I have asked valid and reasonable question that I expect you to answer. This is a debatable topic, I accept that, you seem to not understand this or free speech for that matter.

Here is what is clear, you are a bubble entitlement radical liberal expecting someone else to pay for your personal responsibility issues. I don't expect you to pay for mine why do you expect me as a taxpayer to pay for yours?

You want the President to be held accountable for what exactly? Pre 2016 events or activities while President?

Homosexuality is a state and local issue not a federal one and doesn't resonate with the majority in this country

Disagreeing with slavery has no place in this election as slavery doesn't exist in this country

Disagreeing with policies of the other party is part of politics, politics of personal destruction have no place in any election so how about discussing the issues and how Trump has personally affected you and your family the last four years?

You are so totally biased buying the liberal rhetoric and ignoring the reality of the Russia issue, NATO us stronger because of Trump, our enemies once again fear this country and our status as world policeman isn't being promoted, time for allies to defend themselves with the help of NATO and the U.S. is still the major contributor. Stop buying what you are told. I voted for Trump last Tuesday based upon the results generated from his economic policies not the results generated by governors who are preventing people from benefiting from those policies