why is gay marriage reffered to as the "gay marriage issue" (1 Viewer)

[justiceisboughtnotblind]

I have been hearing more and more from people "oh this gay marriage issue is getting out of control". Well what i don't understand is well..............what issue.
Personally i am not a homosexual , i am a straight male in a relationship, but gays and lesbians wanting to get married is not an issue and if it is it shouldn't be, not that it's my place to say. In this day in age where you can have an hour long television show about 1 man or women trying to find that special someone when the overall decision may be influenced by the network more than the people, who is to say that two people of the same sex should be constitutionally not allowed to be married and if so it's only a legal union. If two willing adults who are of the same sex want to get married i feel it should be perfectly legal, at least they are doing it for reasons of their own and not for ratings during sweeps.
please comment on this .

 

[JustineCredible]

I have to agree with most of what you said.
But sadly still, gay marriage is infact an issue.
It wouldn't be if it were made legal...which is what we are still fighting for.

Yes, I agree the government shouldn't have a say as to who or what two concenting adults can or cannot marry. But these religious fundimentalists think that somehow our US Government was based on supposedly "judeo-christian" beliefs. Dispite proof to the contrary.

The problem is that gays/lesbians are being denied not only access to legal marriage (Which let's keep in mind is COMPLETELY SEPERATE from relgious marriage) but denied the protections and benefits thereof.
Just because a couple is gay does not preclude them from raising children, as we see more and more gay/lesbian couples are indeed raising children. (Also do not assume how these couples obtain their chidlren because there are many more ways than the obvious).
So using a gay couple's inability to procreate in and of their own physical unions, does not make a valid opposition.
Gays are not mentally ill, the APA removed homosexuality from their list of disorders back in 1973.
Gays are NOT pedophiles, there are many studies done on this showing that pedophilia has absolutely nothing to do with the gender of the victims.
Gays are not all permiscuous. Many gay men do not even engage in anal intercourse, which I know must come as a shock to many here.
Gays/lesbians are indeed showing just how "average" and "mundane" their lives really can be. Many committed gay couples tend to actually stay together longer than their straight counterparts.

One would think that when Straight divorce rates are actually over 50% that encouraging MORE stable marriages would be a good thing.

Alas there are those fundimentalists who simply cannot see past their own prejudice and hatred long enough to see the big picture.

 

[Rev.]

Alas there are those fundimentalists who simply cannot see past their own prejudice and hatred long enough to see the big picture.

You know what bugs me? When people assume that all Christians object to homosexual marriage out of some blind prejudice...that they are spouting rhetoric without any thought at all to the alternate position.

SOME Christians have studied long and hard on the issue. SOME Christians love gay friends and family members. But still, despite studying, searching and praying, SOME Christians have come to the conclusion that gay marriage is wrong.

Just because we disagree does not mean I'm prejudice.

 

[JustineCredible]

You know what bugs me? When people assume that all Christians object to homosexual marriage out of some blind prejudice...that they are spouting rhetoric without any thought at all to the alternate position.

SOME Christians have studied long and hard on the issue. SOME Christians love gay friends and family members. But still, despite studying, searching and praying, SOME Christians have come to the conclusion that gay marriage is wrong.

Just because we disagree does not mean I'm prejudice.

Rev. I was not refering to "all Christians." I said " those fundimentalists" and that's what I meant. Those "anti's" who use the Bible as a weapon against gay marriage. "Those who" does not imply all by any means.
If you took my comment personally, that is your doing, not my intent.

 

[justiceisboughtnotblind]

well there justine_credible it seems i have found someone who actually makes sense in the world , as far as gay marriage , well i'm sure you can tell what my feelings are but unfortunetly the world will never be in peace. It's not world peace i hope for but national peace. The world is split over government leaderships and religious freedoms , meanwhile the nation is split over political views and the choices of other more so than our own choices. I just saw star wars on thursday and well i know it has nothing to do with politics , but i just look at how imperialistic the government is acting now . Majority of congress is conservative , soon enough the supreme court will be conservative, and if the fillabuster is taken away then any legislation that the conservatives want to pass will be passed. People are thinking less of the country as a country , I was walking to my job , well not anymore i quit because im going off to college next fall , well i was going to get my pay check the last of 2 and i heard a man walking out saying those damn democrats they are ruining the country............
i wanted to turn around and yell " you moron the conservatives are running the country" but do we forget ....."we the people"
not we the democrats or republicans or independents or nazi's or green party or KKK or Black Panthers or religious right. "We the people......." we the people founded this country , our forefathers got together to discuss the laws and bi-laws of the country but it was people ; farmers, husbands, sons, wives, daughters , alcoholics, cheaters, liars, robbers, it was all the people of this country who gave every bit of their being to ensure that what they were fighting for would last forever and it seems like there is no hope for much of any freedom and the boston tea party, revolutionary war, war of 1812, civil war, and every war in the name of liberty that will be all for nothing.

 

[geek]

First off, I interpretted the original post as 'why is it called an issue'. Issue isn't necessarily a bad thing. An issue is a topic in politics, a matter of discussion.

Not only should some Christians love gay friends and family, but all Christians should. God told us to love everybody. He gave us the perfect example with his own son, Jesus Christ. Do you think a modern day Jesus would hang out all day with a pastor at some church? No. He wouldn't. He would be in the bars, on street corners, talking to gays, showing them the Way, the Truth, and the Light. My cousin is a lesbian, my aunt is a lesbian, and I work with two gay guys. Do I shun them because of their choices? No. I show them God's love, Agape. I do let them know that I do not agree with their decisions, but it's not my place to judge. The Holy Father will judge, when the time comes.

Another reason I don't criticize homosexuals is becuase everybody sins. Jesus said it perfectly when He said "he without sin shall cast the first stone." Did anybody throw a stone? No. Nobody is perfect, whether it be caused from sexual immorality, cursing, homosexuality, disrespect to parents, murder, lying, anything.

 

[justiceisboughtnotblind]

ok well geek this thread wasn't made by me to bring god into this. religion is a matter of opinion and not everybody believes in god or any god for that matter. To make the word "issue" seem like it could be in any way be positive is irrational, a topic of interest would be called interesting , and i haven't heard anyone refer to gay marriage as an interesting topic. What "god" or any religion deems as right or wrong in term of gay marriage holds no bearing in the senate or in the supreme court. Come on now -seperation of church and state- though i do appreciate your honesty and i do commend your religous faith , i must still remind you that god does not run the country , though it seems like he does.

 

[geek]

Find an official document that declares seperation of church and state in any original documentation of this country, justice. That's right, there isn't one. The original quotation was of Thomas Jefferson to a Baptist Priest

I contemplate with solemn reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State

-Thomas Jefferson

If you notice, he wasn't declaring a seperation, he was saying there would be no laws forcing religion, or establishing a national religion. He didn't say the church would be banned from government, nor did he want this. The founders of this country didn't want forced religion, as was seen in England. Worshipping in your home was bad, you were forced to go to religious activities. They wanted it so you could worship who you want where you want, not to ban God from government. Jefferson was far from being a Christian, but recognized a superior being, the Creator of all things.

And for you to say that this thread wasn't meant for God to be brought into, you're wrong. God's everywhere bud, whether you believe it or not.

And your biased definition of the word 'issue' means nothing to me. Look in the dictionary, tell me what you see. In the context of this, the definition of issue, brought to you by the great Dictionary.com, is this:

-A point or matter of discussion, debate, or dispute: legal and moral issues.
-A matter of public concern: debated economic issues.
-A misgiving, objection, or complaint: had issues with the plan to change the curriculum.
-The essential point; crux: the issue of how to provide adequate child care.
-A culminating point leading to a decision: bring a case to an issue.

 

[justiceisboughtnotblind]

see thats what i always bring up to all you kinds of people , listen good ok because alright i was wrong about the definition of issue, i have my own feeling about the definition of issue and just because you agree with the book doesnt make it right it just means people collectively got together and agree'd in the best interest of the people that they would write the definition of an issue to be that. As far as well the first amendment "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." thats the first amendment congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion - hmm wonder what that means , maybe it means that the government will not pass legislation that recognizes one or all religion as an actual basis for running the country, and well i may be wrong , sure you'll tell me that i am , ...........or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." practice what religion you will , let the senators and president , and all members of the government practice what religion they choose, and let that be for all americans, but do not bring your religion into the senate with you and let your own personal beliefs be represented by your political ideals. That is why we have the seperation of church and state, it was never clearly said because jefferson and other founding fathers had faith that Americans would actually be able to keep their religion seperate from the country , it's like keeping your business life and personal life seperate. To close this reply of mine , alright look , not everybody believes in god , you say oh well he's everywhere he's in the tree's and the water, personally that sounds a tad like a stalker to me but hell who am i to make any comment , oh wait thats right i'm a high school graduate, wait a minute so are you , your knowledge is neck and neck with mine , i'm not going to go into ranks and gpa and college because that means nothing , my point is that not everybody believes in god ok , im not saying that i do or don't what i'm saying is that a church is gods house , not the white house , keep your faith because its good to have something to believe in , but keep it out of your political views because when you say you support the GOP and your actually an advocate for GOD your not only misleading the readers of this site , your also misleading america as a whole , and thats a flaw more and more commen among conservatives.

 

[JustineCredible]

First off let me give you all something to think about: The Treaty of Tripoli

http://earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html

"As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."


Ok, now that the argument of whether or not this country was founded upon "Christian" values has been resolved, I submitt we try to keep this conversation as secular as possible. Let us keep it on track with law not religion.

 

[justiceisboughtnotblind]

thank you justine_credible . I wanted to find a way to settle this whole speration of church and state, i could never find a way and I overlooked the treaty of tripoli. I wasn't trying to bring god and religion into this thread it just happened but i'm glad you were able to resolve it.My only hope now is the rest of the people who post on this thread will listen to what you said.