WHY IS EUROPE MORE EQUAL THAN THE UNITED STATES?

[Lafayette]

Capitalism is central to the European Union. The sole difference with the US is that they learned how to tame it. Which is called taxation.

We have billionaires in the EU, yes. But the economic fairness (in terms of distribution of income) is statistically better in Europe than the US. And that fact is purely due to very different levels of income-taxation between the two.

From here: WHY IS EUROPE MORE EQUAL THAN THE UNITED STATES?

Excerpt:

KEY-RESULTS:

• Inequalities rose in most European countries since 1980 both before and after taxes, but much less than in the US.
• Between 1980 and 2017, the European top 1% pre-tax income share rose from 8% to 11% while it rose from 11% to 21% in the US. Europe’s lower inequality levels are mainly explained by a more equal distribution of pretax incomes rather than by more equalizing taxes and transfer systems.
• “Pre-distribution” is found to play a much larger role in explaining Europe’s relative resistance to inequality than “redistribution”: it accounts for between two-thirds and 90% of the current inequality gap between the two regions.

Economic Fairness in an economy is chiefly determined by the Wealth generated and "Who gets how much?" Meaning typically that some get one-helluva-lot and others get nothing. Fairness in the distribution of income is a key element to the functioning of an economy.

Uncle Sam needs to do better. A lot better! And that starts with increasing upper-income taxation levels ...

 

[Lafayette]

And why must Uncle Sam take action today and not tomorrow?

Because of what has been happening in terms of key structural effects in terms of the distribution of Manufacturing- and Services-Industry jobs. Manufacturing in the US now hires about 8% of it total workforce down from more than half of the total some 50-years ago.

All the rest is in the Services Industry. What's the big-difference between the two? These are key factors:
*Manufacturing typically required (since its inception in the 19th century) basic-skills, which skills exist today in places like North Africa and Central South America. Both of which are manufacturing increasing numbers of cars for their separate markets (namely Europe and the US).
*The augmenting of Services Industries typically means the need for a higher-level of workforce competence. The key factor being post-secondary education in the labor-skills (driving a truck, kitchen-help) and the higher-level universities.
*The singular difference between the two (US and EU) being that post-graduate degrees are much, much more costly in the US than in the EU. Making it more difficult for Americans to move into a higher level of job-incomes.

 

[Kpuppy0001]

Capitalism is central to the European Union. The sole difference with the US is that they learned how to tame it. Which is called taxation.

We have billionaires in the EU, yes. But the economic fairness (in terms of distribution of income) is statistically better in Europe than the US. And that fact is purely due to very different levels of income-taxation between the two.

From here: WHY IS EUROPE MORE EQUAL THAN THE UNITED STATES?

Excerpt:


Economic Fairness in an economy is chiefly determined by the Wealth generated and "Who gets how much?" Meaning typically that some get one-helluva-lot and others get nothing. Fairness in the distribution of income is a key element to the functioning of an economy.

Uncle Sam needs to do better. A lot better! And that starts with increasing upper-income taxation levels ...

I think you mean Europe's misery index is more equal. Your homes are cramped and overpriced, your taxes are unbearably high, your standard of care in hospitals is poor at best in comparison to the US. Your price of basic utilities is scary, and then the price of gasoline is so much higher. I spent a total of 8 years in Europe when I was in the military and to you and the rest of Europe I say no thank you.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

And why must Uncle Sam take action today and not tomorrow?

Because of what has been happening in terms of key structural effects in terms of the distribution of Manufacturing- and Services-Industry jobs. Manufacturing in the US now hires about 8% of it total workforce down from more than half of the total some 50-years ago.

All the rest is in the Services Industry. What's the big-difference between the two? These are key factors:
*Manufacturing typically required (since its inception in the 19th century) basic-skills, which skills exist today in places like North Africa and Central South America. Both of which are manufacturing increasing numbers of cars for their separate markets (namely Europe and the US).
*The augmenting of Services Industries typically means the need for a higher-level of workforce competence. The key factor being post-secondary education in the labor-skills (driving a truck, kitchen-help) and the higher-level universities.
*The singular difference between the two (US and EU) being that post-graduate degrees are much, much more costly in the US than in the EU. Making it more difficult for Americans to move into a higher level of job-incomes.

Most manufacturing jobs do not require a higher-level degree and perhaps it is the EU that needs to improve its post-secondary education levels: Link

 

[Lafayette]

Most manufacturing jobs do not require a higher-level degree and perhaps it is the EU that needs to improve its post-secondary education levels: Link

I will repeat the central-fact of my argument. Most Manufacturing jobs in America are now high-tech. Which is goodness. But, that business requires well-educated people.

Moreover, Manufacturing employs barely 8% of the American workforce whilst Services hire the rest. (And most of those are in good-paying hi-tech jobs.)

My point: There is no reason on earth today why America should have a DoD that swallows-whole 11% of its America's total spending-budget. Which is NOT miniscule - that amount could pay for the 30K students at a post-secondary education. The total post-secondary program enlists

The DoD eats the lion-share of Spending. And for what? Certainly NOT a post-secondary education!

How can it be more important than permitting our kids to obtain the qualifications necessary for a decent income because today the average cost of around $100K (average four year at 26K a year for a Bachelor level degree)?

From the Internet: The factual evidence is that there were approximately 19.6 million college students in the U.S. in 2019, with around 14.5 million enrolled in public colleges and a further 5.14 million students enrolled in private colleges. The figures are projected to remain relatively constant over the next few years.

Here-below (from the National Center for Education Stats) is the breakdown of post-secondary students studies:

From here a breakdown of costs per type of education-level: Average cost of college and tuition

Report Highlights. The average cost of college* in the United States is $35,720 per student per year. The cost has tripled in 20 years, with an annual growth rate of 6.8%.

• The average in-state student attending a public 4-year institution spends $25,615 for one academic year.
• The average cost of in-state tuition alone is $9,580; out-of-state tuition averages $27,437.
• The average traditional private university student spends a total of $53,949 per academic year, $37,200 of it on tuition and fees.
• Considering student loan interest and loss of income, the ultimate cost of a bachelor’s degree may exceed $400,000.

*In this report, college refers to any postsecondary educational institution that offers an undergraduate degree program.

The above demonstrates aptly why not enough of our kids are getting the education necessary for a decent future. Which is why they are reduced to secondary- and tertiary level jobs in terms of income.

And, I figure, it also leads to illicit behaviour amongst American youth and a lot of time in jail (which of course goes on their record).

For Bachelor's programmes here in France, where I live, the average tuition fees are around 170 EUR per year*. Engineering degrees have higher tuition fees of around 620 EUR per academic year. The rest of Europe have perhaps slightly higher fees.

*About the same amount in dollars.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

I will repeat the central-fact of my argument. Most Manufacturing jobs in America are now high-tech. Which is goodness. But, that business requires well-educated people.

Moreover, Manufacturing employs barely 8% of the American workforce whilst Services hire the rest. (And most of those are in good-paying hi-tech jobs.)

My point: There is no reason on earth today why America should have a DoD that swallows-whole 11% of its America's total spending-budget. Which is NOT miniscule - that amount could pay for the 30K students at a post-secondary education. The total post-secondary program enlists

The DoD eats the lion-share of Spending. And for what? Certainly NOT a post-secondary education!

How can it be more important than permitting our kids to obtain the qualifications necessary for a decent income because today the average cost of around $100K (average four year at 26K a year for a Bachelor level degree)?

From the Internet: The factual evidence is that there were approximately 19.6 million college students in the U.S. in 2019, with around 14.5 million enrolled in public colleges and a further 5.14 million students enrolled in private colleges. The figures are projected to remain relatively constant over the next few years.

Here-below (from the National Center for Education Stats) is the breakdown of post-secondary students studies:

From here a breakdown of costs per type of education-level: Average cost of college and tuition



The above demonstrates aptly why not enough of our kids are getting the education necessary for a decent future. Which is why they are reduced to secondary- and tertiary level jobs in terms of income.

And, I figure, it also leads to illicit behaviour amongst American youth and a lot of time in jail (which of course goes on their record).

For Bachelor's programmes here in France, where I live, the average tuition fees are around 170 EUR per year*. Engineering degrees have higher tuition fees of around 620 EUR per academic year. The rest of Europe have perhaps slightly higher fees.

*About the same amount in dollars.

You keep moving your "central facts" and "points" and then introduce non-sequitors to muddle those points without refuting anything that I post. That isn't debate, that is waiting for the next opportunity to post copy pasta. There is more spending than what happens at the US federal government, and in the US there is about $46 billion awarded in scholarships. Some have argued that the cost of a college education is increased by having any involvement by the federal government. Perhaps if local public education spent more time teaching how to learn and core knowledge rather than worrying about agenda driven side shows, the students may perform better.

 

[post]

I think you mean Europe's misery index is more equal. Your homes are cramped and overpriced, your taxes are unbearably high, your standard of care in hospitals is poor at best in comparison to the US. Your price of basic utilities is scary, and then the price of gasoline is so much higher. I spent a total of 8 years in Europe when I was in the military and to you and the rest of Europe I say no thank you.

You ignore the deliberate RWE policy of demonizing the poor and the ill, especially in red states withholding access to affordable medical care, motivated by perceived political gain. You ignore the European Union's exemplary investment in affordable world class, high speed mass transit,
even in the least wealthy countries.

Why post such a misleading post?

https://www.americashealthrankings.org/explore/annual/measure/HealthInsurance/state/ALL

Uninsured​

U.S. Value: 9.2%
Healthiest State: Massachusetts: 3.0%
Least-healthy State: Texas: 18.4%
Definition: Percentage of population not covered by private or public health insurance

Maternal Mortality and Maternity Care in the United States Compared to 10 Other Developed Countries

Overview of differences in maternal mortality, maternal care workforce, and access to postpartum care and social protections in the U.S. and 10 other countries.

www.commonwealthfund.org

Maternal Mortality Maternity Care US Compared 10 Other ...​

"In 2018, there were 17 maternal deaths for every 100,000 live births in the U.S. — a ratio more than double that of most other high-income countries (Exhibit 1). In contrast, the maternal mortality ratio was three per 100,000 or fewer in in the Netherlands, Norway, and New Zealand. Nov 18, 2020

...​

• Although a large share of its maternal deaths occur postbirth, the U.S. is the only country not to guarantee access to provider home visits or paid parental leave in the postpartum period.
• Conclusion: The U.S. has a relative undersupply of maternity care providers, especially midwives, and lacks comprehensive postpartum supports..."

Background​

Public transport in Spain: trains, trams, and buses

Public transport companies have every kind of service imaginable.

www.expatica.com

AVE High-Speed Train | Spain Fast Trains and Bullet Trains​

https://www.eurail.com › ... › High-Speed Trains
With 3,100km of track the Spanish high-speed AVE trains operate on the longest high-speed network in Europe. Running at speeds of up to 310 km/h this ...

 

[Grand Mal]

I think you mean Europe's misery index is more equal. Your homes are cramped and overpriced, your taxes are unbearably high, your standard of care in hospitals is poor at best in comparison to the US. Your price of basic utilities is scary, and then the price of gasoline is so much higher. I spent a total of 8 years in Europe when I was in the military and to you and the rest of Europe I say no thank you.

This whole post is a collection of fabricated nonsense. If I could bring my pensions with me intact I'd move to Scotland tomorrow.

 

[Peter]

I think you mean Europe's misery index is more equal. Your homes are cramped and overpriced, your taxes are unbearably high, your standard of care in hospitals is poor at best in comparison to the US. Your price of basic utilities is scary, and then the price of gasoline is so much higher. I spent a total of 8 years in Europe when I was in the military and to you and the rest of Europe I say no thank you.

British homes are among the smallest in Europe but they aren't cramped.
It all depends on what you're used to and the UK just doesn't have the space for huge houses for everyone and a lot of houses here are built on basics put down hundreds of years ago.
There are plenty of videos of Americans who've moved to the UK and have zero problems with the house sizes here so I don't think the simple size of the house is the issue.
I suppose the question I have for you is how much time did you spend outside of the base while in Europe.
Europeans are on the whole a lot more willing to pay taxes for good services and less driven towards consumption than Americans.

 

[Lafayette]

BEST HEALTHCARE SYSTEMS WORLDWIDE

I think you mean Europe's misery index is more equal. Your homes are cramped and overpriced, your taxes are unbearably high, your standard of care in hospitals is poor at best in comparison to the US. Your price of basic utilities is scary, and then the price of gasoline is so much higher. I spent a total of 8 years in Europe when I was in the military and to you and the rest of Europe I say no thank you.

Blah, blah, blah!

Tracking of healthcare services internationally with assessment of comparative worth (from here)

Countries With The Best Health Care Systems, 2021​

Rank	Country	Health Care Index (Overall)	Infrastructure	Professionals	Cost	Medicine Availability	Government Readiness
1	South Korea	78.72	87.16	14.23	83.59	82.3	87.89
2	Taiwan	77.7	79.05	13.06	78.39	78.99	65.09
3	Denmark	74.11	90.75	30.01	82.59	92.06	96.3
4	Austria	71.32	86.18	20.25	78.99	88.23	91.8
5	Japan	70.73	78.77	21.6	74.88	74.18	93.2
6	Australia	67.99	92.58	17.37	96.22	67.51	89.91
7	France	65.38	77.86	13.24	71.82	55.1	81.38
8	Spain	64.66	86.28	34.25	75.81	83.82	96.8
9	Belgium	64.63	72.48	24.51	68.68	64.78	94.9
10	United Kingdom	61.73	88.63	14.66	75.61	90.25	88.41
11	Netherlands	60.16	79.09	13.56	69.93	67.29	85.03
12	Finland	59.6	77.76	13.41	68.97	59.65	84.59

On that list the US is ranked 30th ...

 

[Sweden]

Capitalism is central to the European Union. The sole difference with the US is that they learned how to tame it. Which is called taxation.

We have billionaires in the EU, yes. But the economic fairness (in terms of distribution of income) is statistically better in Europe than the US. And that fact is purely due to very different levels of income-taxation between the two.

From here: WHY IS EUROPE MORE EQUAL THAN THE UNITED STATES?

Excerpt:


Economic Fairness in an economy is chiefly determined by the Wealth generated and "Who gets how much?" Meaning typically that some get one-helluva-lot and others get nothing. Fairness in the distribution of income is a key element to the functioning of an economy.

Uncle Sam needs to do better. A lot better! And that starts with increasing upper-income taxation levels ...

Taxation is not the whole story. Pay levels are more even particularly here in Sweden. Sometimes perhaps too undifferentiated: example a highly trained specialist nurse practitioner is paid not much more than an ordinary qualified nurse so many are reluctant to take on added responsibility. The same is true in several other fields.

 

[Kpuppy0001]

BEST HEALTHCARE SYSTEMS WORLDWIDE



Blah, blah, blah!

Tracking of healthcare services internationally with assessment of comparative worth (from here)



On that list the US is ranked 30th ...

How about by experience, My 3 year old son was in the Hospital in Bamberg 2 times, the hospital required a parent or relative there at all times and just dropped off his medication and required us to administer it, same with food. No level of attentiveness or care. In the states the standard of care is different and more attentive. I want care that actually cares and I didn't see that in Europe;.

 

[Kpuppy0001]

British homes are among the smallest in Europe but they aren't cramped.
It all depends on what you're used to and the UK just doesn't have the space for huge houses for everyone and a lot of houses here are built on basics put down hundreds of years ago.
There are plenty of videos of Americans who've moved to the UK and have zero problems with the house sizes here so I don't think the simple size of the house is the issue.
I suppose the question I have for you is how much time did you spend outside of the base while in Europe.
Europeans are on the whole a lot more willing to pay taxes for good services and less driven towards consumption than Americans.

I had the opportunity to visit several home while in Europe and the rooms were small and cramped for us. As for off base, that's where I lived there was no on base housing available where I was stationed. You may be willing to pay more, but most Americans aren't. We place a premium on being able to keep as much or our hard earned money as possible. It's our money not the goverments.

 

[Kpuppy0001]

This whole post is a collection of fabricated nonsense. If I could bring my pensions with me intact I'd move to Scotland tomorrow.

The real numbers say different

Average price of Gas in the US is $3.28; in Europe $5.75, average Electric bill for my 1600 sq ft home $150; in Europe for a 914 Sq ft apt $244. My Water bill $15 per person, Europe $22 per person. In the US average housing cost $293,349, in Europe $402637.83.

Tax rates

US: 0%, 12%, 22%, 24%, 32%, 35% and 37%.
Germany Rates start at 14% and incrementally rise to 42%. A top rate of 45% +19% VAT for all.

As for standard of care, My 3 year old son was in the Hospital in Bamberg 2 times, the hospital required a parent or relative there at all times and just dropped off his medication and required us to administer it, same with food. No level of attentiveness or care. In the states the standard of care is different and more attentive. I want care that actually cares and I didn't see that in Europe;.

 

[Lafayette]

How about by experience, My 3 year old son was in the Hospital in Bamberg 2 times, the hospital required a parent or relative there at all times and just dropped off his medication and required us to administer it, same with food. No level of attentiveness or care. In the states the standard of care is different and more attentive. I want care that actually cares and I didn't see that in Europe;.

Your care in Bamberg did not show the overall rates of Healthcare in Europe - or compared to the world.

True enough, though, Germany does not figure very high in a quality-rate analysis (that was conducted under supervision)

So, herebellow are the results of a study: Quality universal health coverage needs to be affordable* for all

1. Switzerland
2. Bermuda
3. Iceland
4. Norway
5. Sweden
6. Israel
7. USA
8. Ireland
9. Bahamas
10. Luxembourg
11. Australia
12. Finland
13. Denmark
14. Barbados
15. Netherlands
16. Hong Kong
17. Austria
18. Singapore
19. UK
20. Italy
21. Costa Rica
22. Belgium
23. Canada
24. Uruguay
25. Japan
26. Spain
27. New Zealand
28. Germany

*I cannot possibly imagine why the US gets such a high-ranking as its care-rates are astronomic in relation to, for instance, me here in France where hospitalisation and care are totally supported by the French government.

PS: In Germany, the cost is like this (for permanent residents):

• The percentage you will owe to the state-run healthcare system is taken out of your monthly pay. Germany’s healthcare contribution costs are 14.6 to 15.6%, half of which the worker pays, and half the employer. There may also be a small supplemental rate on top of this, at an average of 0.9%, which is paid solely by the employee. This supplement is a “contribution rate” charged by the state German health insurer.

 

[Kpuppy0001]

Your care in Bamberg did not show the overall rates of Healthcare in Europe - or compared to the world.

True enough, though, Germany does not figure very high in a quality-rate analysis (that was conducted under supervision)

So, herebellow are the results of a study: Quality universal health coverage needs to be affordable* for all



*I cannot possibly imagine why the US gets such a high-ranking as its care-rates are astronomic in relation to, for instance, me here in France where hospitalisation and care are totally supported by the French government.

PS: In Germany, the cost is like this (for permanent residents):

That in no way negates my experience, or the other facts from within my post.

 

[Lafayette]

In the states the standard of care is different and more attentive. I want care that actually cares and I didn't see that in Europe;.

I have lived in Europe for the past 30-years and worked with members in the national-countries. I have never seen a healthcare system that was not reactive in any one of those countries.

Nobody I ever met was disappointed. Do you speak German?

The language barrier has been a problem with those uniquely English-speaking people I know in France ...

 

[Kpuppy0001]

I have lived in Europe for the past 30-years and worked with members in the national-countries. I have never seen a healthcare system that was not reactive in any one of those countries.

Nobody I ever met was disappointed. Do you speak German?

The language barrier has been a problem with those uniquely English-speaking people I know in France ...

I'm half Pennsylvania Dutch, so yes I was semi-fluent then and my wife's Aunt lived in Nurnberg and was there with us. It wasn't a language barrier it was a sucky standard of care.

 

[Allan]

This whole post is a collection of fabricated nonsense. If I could bring my pensions with me intact I'd move to Scotland tomorrow.

Why can't you bring your pensions? I thought they were paid regardless of address?

 

[Allan]

On that list the US is ranked 30th ...

Mexico is 29th.

 

[Lafayette]

A DECENT LIFESTYLE

I'm half Pennsylvania Dutch, so yes I was semi-fluent then and my wife's Aunt lived in Nurnberg and was there with us. It wasn't a language barrier it was a sucky standard of care.

If you don't speak well the language of your country of residence it is impossible - without a stay of 5/10 years - to understand how it is being run.

I will repeat my key-argument: The lifespan of a European is three-to-four years longer than an American. There has to be a reason. And the reason is Healthcare - which costs an arm-and-a-leg (pun intended) in the US and next to nothing in Europe because it is funded by taxation. (Principally by having much smaller DoD-components.)

The other reason (comparing the US and the EU) is that the Major Economic Evolution (from Manufacturing to Services Industries) is not a "theory" amongst economists anymore. The factual evidence of that change is seen clearly in the numbers of both the EU and the US.

Which has a profound effect upon employment. Because employment now clearly requires an advanced training/schooling that is government paid in Europe but not in the US to the same extent. I sent my kids to university for a tuition-fee of less than $200 in Euros.

Americans are living in their-democracy that requires some fundamental changes. And those changes can only come about by increasing taxation on the rich-and-super-rich to generate the needed revenue for financing the key-evolution of moving from a dominant Manufacturing Industry employment to a much larger Services Industry employment.

This key-economic factor is going to cost a lot of money for Americans who still pay stupendous fees to get a post-secondary education that gives them the means to obtain a good-job with which to pursue a decent lifestyle ...

 

[Mircea]

Economic Fairness in an economy ....

State the law, theorem or corollary of Economics that says "fairness" (an highly subjective word) must exist.

 

[post]

State the law, theorem or corollary of Economics that says "fairness" (an highly subjective word) must exist.

What are "the rules," if it's okay for you to post RWE, Randian BS?

-snip-
Wrong. Wealth continues to be distributed to those who have the desire and put forth the effort to create wealth.

What effort do The Poor® put forth?

No effort at all. That's because of Class Attitudes.
-snip-

Randian hero - Wikipedia​

https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Randian_hero
"Generally a Randian hero is characterized by radical individualism, moral resolution, intelligence/aptitude, self-control, emotional discipline, and (frequently ..."

I'll leave it to you to discover what prompted this response, or you can just go on posting RWE, "scapegoat the poor," i.e., the least powerful, nonsense.

Such a fine refutation of the points. The scholarly argument against them are your finest and most coherent points you have ever made in your entire life.

 

[Lafayette]

BEST-HEALTHCARE STUDY BY COUNTRY

From here: World Population Review

Excerpt (the top-10 countries):

Each country is given a score for each of the above factors and then a total score out of 100. According to this index, the ten countries with the best health care are:

1. South Korea
2. Taiwan
3. Denmark
4. Austria
5. Japan
6. Australia
7. France
8. Spain
9. Belgium
10. United Kingdom

Consult the above listing to find the US in 18th position internationally.

Is that what you - a Yank - would expect of your own country? Remember this: Healthcare determines your life span. Not an educational diploma ...

 

[Grand Mal]

The real numbers say different

Average price of Gas in the US is $3.28; in Europe $5.75, average Electric bill for my 1600 sq ft home $150; in Europe for a 914 Sq ft apt $244. My Water bill $15 per person, Europe $22 per person. In the US average housing cost $293,349, in Europe $402637.83.

Tax rates

US: 0%, 12%, 22%, 24%, 32%, 35% and 37%.
Germany Rates start at 14% and incrementally rise to 42%. A top rate of 45% +19% VAT for all.

As for standard of care, My 3 year old son was in the Hospital in Bamberg 2 times, the hospital required a parent or relative there at all times and just dropped off his medication and required us to administer it, same with food. No level of attentiveness or care. In the states the standard of care is different and more attentive. I want care that actually cares and I didn't see that in Europe;.

You're applying your experience in Germany to all of Europe?
What do you think a German citizen who's child got sick in the US would have to say? Better compare a German citizen's experience in Germany and an American's experience in America. Is health care cost still the leading cause of personal bankruptcy in the US? Are there still more American babies born in Windsor, Ontario, just across the river from Detroit, than Canadian births?