Why I Won't Come Out on National Coming Out Day [W:259]

[Mr. Invisible]

Here is the article: Why I Won't Come Out on National Coming Out Day | The Bilerico Project


I read and while I don't agree with everything that Nair said, I do agree with a lot of the points she made. For example, the points she made about homosexuality in other countries and that coming out "may be freedom for some here but for others across the world, it's either a non sequitur or a dangerous calling out that puts their lives in jeopardy. Coming out is increasingly part of a [FONT=Open Sans, Helvetica, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]commercialized[/FONT] notion of gay identity to which a lot of us can't subscribe, especially in light of the mainstreaming of gay community."

So I wanted to see what other people thought about this article.

 

[sangha]

The author makes the mistake of equating "queer" with "homosexual". That's her fundamental mistake, and it leads to many others:

it's not enough for us that someone should go to jail for murdering, beating, or robbing us (crimes for which there's enough punishment); we'd like to expand the prison industrial complex by forcing them to rot in prison for the rest of their lives or be hanged or electrocuted.

Supporters of hate crime laws do not want to "expand the prison industrial complex " nor do they want people to rot in prison or be executed. That is not the justification for those laws.

The article is loaded with similarly facile and shallow arguments.

 

[roguenuke]

While I don't exactly agree with "National Coming Out Day", because I think that there shouldn't be any need for one and it is much better for people to come out when they feel comfortable doing so rather than because people have told them this is the day to do it, I also do not agree with most of her points. I understand her point of view is different than mine, I simply don't agree with her.

I consider marriage to be a willingness to be recognized as legal family. A spouse is one of very few family members that you get to choose in your life. If you don't want the responsibility of being legal family of another, fine, but it is wrong to complain about those who do want that responsibility. The benefits that come with that also come with responsibilities and are due to the taking on of those responsibilities to your spouse.

I consider the need for a military to be very important. Whatever the military is currently being used for, it is idealistic to believe that a military shouldn't exist, at least until humanity grows up a lot more. And while I do think that people should join the military for more than just money or job security (which isn't nearly as true as some want to think it is), most jobs are taken with these two things in mind. And everyone should have the opportunity to serve without regard to who they want to date or be in relationships with.

Although I don't completely agree with all hate crime laws, I think they are a good thing when they are only putting in place extra penalties for people who can be shown to do harm to others because of their hatred of a certain aspect of that person, such as race, religion, sex/gender, or sexuality.

 

[ecofarm]

Hate crime is basically terrorism, and the laws apply to all races and genders. There have been hate crime convictions for crimes against white male Christians.

 

[Gardener]

I think the decision to come out probably works on two levels -- one internal and one external. The internal process involves accepting yourself, and the external involves presenting yourself to the world. I would think the internal process needs to be complete before even worrying about the external, and so pressuring people into coming out as a political statement does them no good if they haven't come to terms with the internal process. I have known gay people who were definitely out in the public sense, but who hadn't really resolved the central issue of their sexuality thoroughly enough to really accept themselves. It seemed that there was little difference between being out and acting out for them, as they almost needed to prove they were gay constantly by various displays. I have also known gay people who had accepted themselves, but saw no reason to be out in public as they considered their sexuality a private matter.

I think people should be who they are,and conforming to a gay "identity" is just as stifling as conforming to any other identity. I have always found it ironic that in trying to cast off one set of shackles -- that to be straight -- many gay people apply shackles to themselves just as restricting.

I think the end product should be normalcy, but it does involve a process and it cannot be forced. Allowing people to just be who they are from both sides of the process might be the best approach.

 

[L0neW0lf]

The author makes the mistake of equating "queer" with "homosexual". That's her fundamental mistake

What do you mean by that?

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

It's certainly interesting, and like the OP, I have points of agreement and points of contention.

I totally agree about gay marriage. However, due to the practicality issues in play, I think the current best practice is to expand legal marriage because getting rid of it is politically infeasible. You can have high-minded ideals all you like, but societies never change overnight. You can't just jump from platform 1 to platform 5 in a single leap.

I think, in some ways, that legal marriage is an inherently discriminatory institution, and really, gays just want to be on the other side of the discrimination (fair) while leaving others behind it (not fair). But... well, see above.

I also agree that it isn't necessarily a good thing for gays to be trying to push each other into a strictly "normalized" mode of living. They have the unique opportunity to make it acceptable to live as you like, rather than as society dictates (marriage, 2.5 kids, house in the burbs). Not that there's anything wrong with wanting to live that way, but they could ALSO be making a stronger push to show it's acceptable for people to live in a way that makes them happy, even if that doesn't jive with the traditional "life script."

This is not the first queer writer I've seen bemoan the loss of diversity within the gay community, as they begin to try to "normalize" themselves by acting out the life script for acceptance. And I think it's a loss worth grieving.

As far as the coming out thing, I have mixed feelings. On one hand, she is right that coming out is currently infeasible in some places without danger. She is right some people may be happy to have same sex encounters and consider themselves straight. But how are we going to get to a place of acceptance without a few pioneers? That's the question she never answers, and leaving things the way they are is unacceptable. People are literally dying over it. What is her solution?

I disagree about hate crime legislation. First of all, gays did not invent that. Second of all, a crime against a white man for being a white man is a hate crime too. And third, motive ALWAYS matters in the punishment of any crime, because motive can help us assess how dangerous a person will be in the future. And let's not forget that's the main point of the justice system: to protect people. It's not like it's unique to hate crime. Punishment for hate crimes is more severe than some motives, and less severe than others, and I would say that's about right.

I think ultimately what needs to happen is a breaking down of these narrow definitions. "Gay" and "straight" have almost turned into political platforms. People make assumptions about what your love and sex life is, what your gender is, and all kinds of other things that are NOT implied by those simple words.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

I think all of this makes a mockery of such a serious situation for people and minimizes, even negating, their issues - for everyone involved.

It's like 'teen pregnancy day!' - if you hiding a pregnancy from your parents, tell them today!

National Divorce Month - file your grievances and let 'em have it!

I mean really - if it's serious, it doesn't need such silly drama.

 

[chromium]

I think the decision to come out probably works on two levels -- one internal and one external. The internal process involves accepting yourself, and the external involves presenting yourself to the world. I would think the internal process needs to be complete before even worrying about the external, and so pressuring people into coming out as a political statement does them no good if they haven't come to terms with the internal process. I have known gay people who were definitely out in the public sense, but who hadn't really resolved the central issue of their sexuality thoroughly enough to really accept themselves. It seemed that there was little difference between being out and acting out for them, as they almost needed to prove they were gay constantly by various displays. I have also known gay people who had accepted themselves, but saw no reason to be out in public as they considered their sexuality a private matter.

I think people should be who they are,and conforming to a gay "identity" is just as stifling as conforming to any other identity. I have always found it ironic that in trying to cast off one set of shackles -- that to be straight -- many gay people apply shackles to themselves just as restricting.

I think the end product should be normalcy, but it does involve a process and it cannot be forced. Allowing people to just be who they are from both sides of the process might be the best approach.

The internal process should really be resolved early on these days. Let's keep in mind the average age now to come out is what, 14? They are kids who are asked constantly who they like. It's not the same as for an adult who's been in the closet most their life.

For most it's kinda stupid to wait for a specific day or to force something when not ready. You mostly get it, but a gay identity isn't "shackling" any more than a hetero couple holding hands in public is conforming to a hetero identity. If someone gay considers "privacy" the reason they don't do this, they are likely just afraid of backlash. I don't know anyone *that* shy and I don't see hetero couples with such inhibitions. I went to a hockey game the other day and they had the "kiss cam" going on the score board. Well! Here i thought sexuality is private.

The whole point of coming out is to not have to hide it, and that doesn't preclude having multiple other interests. It is possible - or at least it should be - to be openly gay and also a gamer, athlete, biker, coworker etc. Also, the only path to normalizing it has been thru coming out. That's the only reason there's been any progress, and that is what's worth reflecting on.

 

[chromium]

I also agree that it isn't necessarily a good thing for gays to be trying to push each other into a strictly "normalized" mode of living. They have the unique opportunity to make it acceptable to live as you like, rather than as society dictates (marriage, 2.5 kids, house in the burbs). Not that there's anything wrong with wanting to live that way, but they could ALSO be making a stronger push to show it's acceptable for people to live in a way that makes them happy, even if that doesn't jive with the traditional "life script."

This is not the first queer writer I've seen bemoan the loss of diversity within the gay community, as they begin to try to "normalize" themselves by acting out the life script for acceptance. And I think it's a loss worth grieving.

Maybe gays would have preferred the "normalized" lifestyle all along, rather than sneaking out to back alleys and seedy bars as they were forced to. Who wants to be a swinging single at 50? They are settling down because it's an option, but also desirable at some point. You don't need 2.5 kids to be happy, but i think shrinking fertility rates has proven there's an alternative even among heteros.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Maybe gays would have preferred the "normalized" lifestyle all along, rather than sneaking out to back alleys and seedy bars as they were forced to. Who wants to be a swinging single at 50? They are settling down because it's an option, but also desirable at some point. You don't need 2.5 kids to be happy, but i think shrinking fertility rates has proven there's an alternative even among heteros.

And here's where things get interesting, because the normalizing faction of the gay movement are as vociferously against this as conservatives. I've been on the receiving end of that endless times as a childfree woman. They are more than happy to join the chorus that there's something wrong with people who don't follow the life script. They want to be accepted by the people who marginalized them.

In reality, your the average hetero and the normalizing gay movement are going in opposite directions. While heteros try to gain acceptance for living diverse lives, the normalizing gay faction is trying to be more scripted and criticizing people who don't follow suit.

 

[Hard Truth]

It's certainly interesting, and like the OP, I have points of agreement and points of contention.

I totally agree about gay marriage. However, due to the practicality issues in play, I think the current best practice is to expand legal marriage because getting rid of it is politically infeasible. You can have high-minded ideals all you like, but societies never change overnight. You can't just jump from platform 1 to platform 5 in a single leap.

I think, in some ways, that legal marriage is an inherently discriminatory institution, and really, gays just want to be on the other side of the discrimination (fair) while leaving others behind it (not fair). But... well, see above.

I also agree that it isn't necessarily a good thing for gays to be trying to push each other into a strictly "normalized" mode of living. They have the unique opportunity to make it acceptable to live as you like, rather than as society dictates (marriage, 2.5 kids, house in the burbs). Not that there's anything wrong with wanting to live that way, but they could ALSO be making a stronger push to show it's acceptable for people to live in a way that makes them happy, even if that doesn't jive with the traditional "life script."

This is not the first queer writer I've seen bemoan the loss of diversity within the gay community, as they begin to try to "normalize" themselves by acting out the life script for acceptance. And I think it's a loss worth grieving.

As far as the coming out thing, I have mixed feelings. On one hand, she is right that coming out is currently infeasible in some places without danger. She is right some people may be happy to have same sex encounters and consider themselves straight. But how are we going to get to a place of acceptance without a few pioneers? That's the question she never answers, and leaving things the way they are is unacceptable. People are literally dying over it. What is her solution?

I disagree about hate crime legislation. First of all, gays did not invent that. Second of all, a crime against a white man for being a white man is a hate crime too. And third, motive ALWAYS matters in the punishment of any crime, because motive can help us assess how dangerous a person will be in the future. And let's not forget that's the main point of the justice system: to protect people. It's not like it's unique to hate crime. Punishment for hate crimes is more severe than some motives, and less severe than others, and I would say that's about right.

I think ultimately what needs to happen is a breaking down of these narrow definitions. "Gay" and "straight" have almost turned into political platforms. People make assumptions about what your love and sex life is, what your gender is, and all kinds of other things that are NOT implied by those simple words.

I couldn't have said this better myself.

IMO gays coming out has been the catalyst for their growing acceptance, it has been proven to be a very effective strategy. I agree with the linked author's feelings about the institutions of marriage and the military, but I still think there is value in ending discrimination within them. All legalized forms of discrimination should be eliminated, and that is happening now. Changing the larger policies around government enforced marriage and the military-industrial complex are bigger issues that will take a long time to achieve progress. That is why dealing with somewhat smaller issues like gay marriage in the short term is a reasonable strategy at this time, and these changes do improve many people's quality of life.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

So those who are against the gay lifestyle want gays to keep quiet and those who are for the gay lifestyle want others to come out.

Just leave these folks alone.

 

[calamity]

Here is the article: Why I Won't Come Out on National Coming Out Day | The Bilerico Project


I read and while I don't agree with everything that Nair said, I do agree with a lot of the points she made. For example, the points she made about homosexuality in other countries and that coming out "may be freedom for some here but for others across the world, it's either a non sequitur or a dangerous calling out that puts their lives in jeopardy. Coming out is increasingly part of a [FONT=Open Sans, Helvetica, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]commercialized[/FONT] notion of gay identity to which a lot of us can't subscribe, especially in light of the mainstreaming of gay community."

So I wanted to see what other people thought about this article.

The article reads as if it was satire. Are you sure this is not from the Onion? There are in it so many gross inaccuracies and statements which play on stereotypes that I have to wonder.

 

[chromium]

And here's where things get interesting, because the normalizing faction of the gay movement are as vociferously against this as conservatives. I've been on the receiving end of that endless times as a childfree woman. They are more than happy to join the chorus that there's something wrong with people who don't follow the life script. They want to be accepted by the people who marginalized them.

In reality, your the average hetero and the normalizing gay movement are going in opposite directions. While heteros try to gain acceptance for living diverse lives, the normalizing gay faction is trying to be more scripted and criticizing people who don't follow suit.

The older crowd wants to "make up for lost time" as they grew up thinking this path was never going to be open to them. They also want to fight perceptions of being ultra promiscuous, and in fact one of the arguments for gay marriage is that it would cut down on promiscuity. Just gotta learn to ignore those who would tell you how to live, as gays have been dealing with forever.

 

[sangha]

While I don't exactly agree with "National Coming Out Day", because I think that there shouldn't be any need for one and it is much better for people to come out when they feel comfortable doing so rather than because people have told them this is the day to do it

Just an FYI:

National Coming Out Day is not a day for people to schedule their coming out on

National Coming Out Day - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[CLAX1911]

I never understood this making of a big deal about being gay. I came out in march, by coming out i mean i told the people that i love. Aid from that I don't worry with telling others. If they ask i will say something.

This kind of thing seems to be a commercial thing to make an entertainment spectical out of homosexuality. It really frustrates me its just a sexuality, its not a religion, or a cult, or really even that big of a deal.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

So those who are against the gay lifestyle want gays to keep quiet and those who are for the gay lifestyle want others to come out.

Just leave these folks alone.

Is that how you see it?

I want them to be able to do things with sensible support from their peers, and without judgment, on their own time, as they see fit - not through some pressure to conform in order to be accepted into something they see as a community.

I'm not saying "keep quiet" - I'm saying that this is the wrong message to send, and alienates rather than supports.

 

[chromium]

So those who are against the gay lifestyle want gays to keep quiet and those who are for the gay lifestyle want others to come out.

Just leave these folks alone.

They can come out or not and it's not going to matter any more. Social war is over, mission accomplished, but i am calling BS on the "privacy" excuse.

 

[CLAX1911]

They can come out or not and it's not going to matter any more. Social war is over, mission accomplished, but i am calling BS on the "privacy" excuse.

It really shouldn't matter what anybody else wants only the person that comes out has to live with whether they do or not both paths have their pitfalls. But ultimately I find it silly to say that there is a day to come out. To be honesty i only recently heard of national come out day

 

[Gipper]

I like this woman. She's very astute and has legitimate viewpoints. For instance:

Gay marriage. I'm against the idea that marriage should grant rights and benefits, and I don't think couples - gay or straight - are special people who deserve to be rewarded for their "commitment." Gay marriage is an emotional, social, and cultural issue - by all means, argue for it if you'd like to have your relationship validated by whatever forces you deem important. But don't turn it into a social justice issue by pretending that it's about establishing parity and equal rights for everyone. When gays argue for gay marriage as the way to establish health care and guarantee benefits, they're essentially giving the finger to anyone - straight or gay - who chooses not to inhabit the institution of marriage.

I can get on board with her.

 

[chromium]

I like this woman. She's very astute and has legitimate viewpoints. For instance:



I can get on board with her.

Well, it's an equal rights issue by comparison to those who are able and willing to marry. They have the option at least in those other 37 states. Many who never tie the knot or haven't yet aren't doing so out of some noble sacrifice either, but would like to marry and just haven't had the opportunity.

 

[Gipper]

Well, it's an equal rights issue by comparison to those who are able and willing to marry. They have the option at least in those other 37 states. Many who never tie the knot or haven't yet aren't doing so out of some noble sacrifice either, but would like to marry and just haven't had the opportunity.

That's why I support your right to marry. You have every right to be as miserable as I can be. Fortunately, I've had the knowledge and foresight to not practice in that form of masochism.

Of course, maybe gays getting married wouldn't be the worst. Less nagging, sex all month long, and the toilet seat is never an issue. One of these days, you'll have to tell me about the drawbacks of being gay.

 

[chromium]

It really shouldn't matter what anybody else wants only the person that comes out has to live with whether they do or not both paths have their pitfalls. But ultimately I find it silly to say that there is a day to come out. To be honesty i only recently heard of national come out day

Yeah i don't see why pride month isn't sufficient already.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

The 'anti marriage' people irritate me in general, though - the 'they're married / blending their lives together / having children / they should be treated like everyone else regardless'

Why? Because some single people don't want to get married. . . tut tut.

How does that work for me, being a stay at home mom, I'm expected to cover my own taxes or something? :roll: Yeah - I've gotta go to work, kids, sorry, but the government doesn't believe I should be the one to care for you during the day.