Why I Shop At Wal-mart Despite My Progressive Politics

[Kandahar]

There's nothing wrong with Wal-Mart. They pay their employees fair wages...if they didn't, they wouldn't have any employees. In fact, they probably OVERPAY their employees considerably, because the government sets a ridiculous "minimum wage" which harms the poor.

If a person is willing to work at Wal-Mart for $5.15 per hour, and Wal-Mart is willing to pay a person $5.15 per hour to work there, why should these two entities not be allowed to reach that agreement? Why do YOU people know better than they do what wage they "should" be earning?

Yay for Wal-Mart. It has helped lower the cost of living throughout America, and has provided more private sector jobs than anyone else in America.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

There's nothing wrong with Wal-Mart. They pay their employees fair wages...if they didn't, they wouldn't have any employees. In fact, they probably OVERPAY their employees considerably, because the government sets a ridiculous "minimum wage" which harms the poor.

If a person is willing to work at Wal-Mart for $5.15 per hour, and Wal-Mart is willing to pay a person $5.15 per hour to work there, why should these two entities not be allowed to reach that agreement? Why do YOU people know better than they do what wage they "should" be earning?

Yay for Wal-Mart. It has helped lower the cost of living throughout America, and has provided more private sector jobs than anyone else in America.

In my state average pay for an hourly employee @ Wal-Mart is $8/hr. Dont worry, the Anti-Wal-Mart crowd still has more talking points for us to debunk.

Like:

• Anti Union Policies
• They force their vendors to lower their prices
• Poor Mom n Pop

 

[Hoot]

I don't shop at Walmart. There are far better stores in my area, like Target, that do not have their history of abuses.

http://workertimes.com/ltribune/walmart15.html

 

[Spartacus FPV]

I don't shop at Walmart. There are far better stores in my area, like Target, that do not have their history of abuses.

http://workertimes.com/ltribune/walmart15.html

What are these alleged abuses? Target is actually exactly like Wal-Mart, just without the pricing scale. Whenever social pressures make Wal-Mart change policy, Target usually follows.

 

[LeftyHenry]

think all you want, they suckered you into their B.S. hook line and sinker that is exactly the type of spin they are trying to put forth
the link you provided uses broad terms to make a problem seem FAR WORSE than it really is
otherwise they would have broken down the numbers to how many people die every day/week/month/year of starvation
they would say how many meals those 'in danger of starving' miss every day/week/month year

Wake up, the bleeding heart matrix has you
and it has suckered you into believing in a societal program, which throughout history HAS FAILED

Ok umm well if it was just missing a meal once in a while then everyone in this country would be on that list. Many times on weekends I wake up at 12:00 eat breakast and than dinner at 5:00. In fact I did that yesterday. Am I starving? No!

To get the feeling of what starvation feels like, try not eating for a day. I did that and ate two boxes of twinkies the next morning. Now try it for a week or half a week. That's what it is, otherwise all of America would be starving.

 

[LeftyHenry]

What are these alleged abuses? Target is actually exactly like Wal-Mart, just without the pricing scale. Whenever social pressures make Wal-Mart change policy, Target usually follows.

Yeah I afraid Target is just as abusive to their workers as Wal-Mart but Wal-Mart get's the bulk of the blaim because it's larger.

 

[LeftyHenry]

If a person is willing to work at Wal-Mart for $5.15 per hour, and Wal-Mart is willing to pay a person $5.15 per hour to work there, why should these two entities not be allowed to reach that agreement? Why do YOU people know better than they do what wage they "should" be earning?

Most of the time they're not. Their hungry three children give them no option and Wal-Mart knows that.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

Most of the time they're not. Their hungry three children give them no option and Wal-Mart knows that.

So let me get this straight, Wal-Mart needs to pay each operational employee enough to support 3 children above the poverty line.

Wow if they did that, i'd quit my job and go push carts at in the Wal-Mart parking lot.

If you have 3 children, why are you getting a part-time job @ Wal-Mart?

Yeah I afraid Target is just as abusive to their workers as Wal-Mart but Wal-Mart get's the bulk of the blaim because it's larger.

Dude seriously, the socialist rhetoric is starting to irritate me. Abusive? Do you mean physically or mentally? They hit their employees? Or so they must verbally abuse and berate them. You my friend are too dramatic...

Wal-Mart gets all of the attention because they are bigger. People think because they are so big, their profits must be huge. When in fact their profit margin is among the smallest of all industries. All of the savings from their efficiency gets passed down to the consumer. Target copies their model, and thus people make the same naive accusations about Target.

Go check out the Wal-Mart watch website, and read their talking points objectively. Its all socialist generalizations that dont have anything to do with the reality of the business or its employees at all.

If a community wants to save mom n pop, they need to exercise personal responsibility for their spending habits and not support Wal-Mart by shopping there.

If the employees have a problem with their employment, Wal-Mart has a very open door policy with their managers when it comes to complaint resolution. If there is a problem with their wages, quit or ask for a raise.

And if vendors cant afford Wal-Mart's prices, they dont have to sell to them.

 

[LeftyHenry]

So let me get this straight, Wal-Mart needs to pay each operational employee enough to support 3 children above the poverty line.

Wow if they did that, i'd quit my job and go push carts at in the Wal-Mart parking lot.

No wal-mart needs to pay people normally. You can't live above the poverty line with minimum wage. Not even if you're one person.

If you have 3 children, why are you getting a part-time job @ Wal-Mart?

Maybe it's the only job there is in your community that you can qualify for. Maybe you need to spend time with your children. It's irrelevent in anycase.

Dude seriously, the socialist rhetoric is starting to irritate me. Abusive? Do you mean physically or mentally? They hit their employees? Or so they must verbally abuse and berate them. You my friend are too dramatic...

No you're just playing dumb. Duh.. they don't hit their employees, they enslave them!

Workers making clothing for Wal-Mart in Shenzhen, China filed a class action lawsuit against Wal-Mart in September 2005 claiming that they were not paid the legal minimum wage, not permitted to take holidays off and were forced to work overtime. They said their employer had withheld the first three months of all workers' pay, almost making them indentured servants because the company refused to pay the money if they quit. [New York Times, September 14, 2005]

Workers from Bangladesh, China, Indonesia, Nicaragua and Swaziland brought a class action lawsuit against Wal-Mart in September 2005 asserting that the company’s codes of conduct were violated in dozens of ways. They said they were often paid less than the legal minimum wage and did not receive mandated time-and-a-half for overtime, and some said they were beaten by managers and were locked in their factories. [New York Times, September 14, 2005]

opps.. you're right! They do beat them!

In 2005, the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit has upheld a $5,000 fine against a Wal-Mart store in Hoover, Ala., for blocking emergency exits. The court upheld a decision by a judge who found that Wal-Mart was guilty of a serious and repeated offense. [New York Times, 5/17/05]

Link Here

Wal-Mart gets all of the attention because they are bigger. People think because they are so big, their profits must be huge. When in fact their profit margin is among the smallest of all industries. All of the savings from their efficiency gets passed down to the consumer. Target copies their model, and thus people make the same naive accusations about Target.

I guess $11 billion dollars is a small profit.

Go check out the Wal-Mart watch website, and read their talking points objectively. Its all socialist generalizations that dont have anything to do with the reality of the business or its employees at all.

What? So treating employees, the enviroment, and the tax payers well is bad for business? No ****! This is capitalism!

If a community wants to save mom n pop, they need to exercise personal responsibility for their spending habits and not support Wal-Mart by shopping there.

There will always be people who shop at Wal-Mart because it's cheaper than all the 'Mom and pop stores'. They buy things wholesale on a huge scale and thus are able to sell for lower prices than the mom and pop stores until they close.

If the employees have a problem with their employment, Wal-Mart has a very open door policy with their managers when it comes to complaint resolution. If there is a problem with their wages, quit or ask for a raise.

Like you can just quit when you have a family to feed. But you're right Wal-mart does have a very good open door policy. It's called "shut up or we'll kick you out the door"

 

[DeeJayH]

Maybe it's the only job there is in your community that you can qualify for. Maybe you need to spend time with your children. It's irrelevent in anycase.

if a person is only capable of working at Wal-Mart
perhaps they should not of had 3 kids already
its called proper life planning
it is not walmarts responsibility, nor mine, to bail out losers

 

[Spartacus FPV]

No wal-mart needs to pay people normally. You can't live above the poverty line with minimum wage. Not even if you're one person.

It has already been established that they pay well over the minimum wage.

Maybe it's the only job there is in your community that you can qualify for. Maybe you need to spend time with your children. It's irrelevent in anycase.

Unqualified, your problem. Take personal responsibility.

Got kids? Your problem, take personal responsbility. Need more time to spend with them, sort out your priorities. You're right, these things are irrelevant.

No you're just playing dumb. Duh.. they don't hit their employees, they enslave them!

They literally enslave them? How do you qualify that one?

opps.. you're right! They do beat them!

Lets just stick to America huh buddy? Or at the very least, capitalist countries.

I guess $11 billion dollars is a small profit.

I said small profit margin, and for their scale $11 Billion is small. How much of that becomes retained earnings? (I've done business forecasts for Wal-Mart, and im an Accountant, i've got their annual reports on file, dont test me)

What? So treating employees, the enviroment, and the tax payers well is bad for business? No ****! This is capitalism!

Treating them well is in their best interests, treating them too well, with unjustified pay rates or benefits is SO bad for business.

There will always be people who shop at Wal-Mart because it's cheaper than all the 'Mom and pop stores'. They buy things wholesale on a huge scale and thus are able to sell for lower prices than the mom and pop stores until they close.

Again, if a community wants to save mom n pop, they must exercise self control and take personal responsibility for what business interests they support.

Like you can just quit when you have a family to feed. But you're right Wal-mart does have a very good open door policy. It's called "shut up or we'll kick you out the door"

Oh thats a fair assessment. Where'd ya get that quote? Because on the whole Wal-Mart gets good reviews when it comes to conflict resolution. The only complaint like that that holds any water is that Wal-Mart is against unions. They are against unions for good reason.

 

[DeeJayH]

Ok umm well if it was just missing a meal once in a while then everyone in this country would be on that list. Many times on weekends I wake up at 12:00 eat breakast and than dinner at 5:00. In fact I did that yesterday. Am I starving? No!

To get the feeling of what starvation feels like, try not eating for a day. I did that and ate two boxes of twinkies the next morning. Now try it for a week or half a week. That's what it is, otherwise all of America would be starving.

i beleive that is also called the college lifestyle
10 ramen pride for $1
i remember the days all too well

but until you show the parameters of the study quoted, all you are doing is speculation
and one would have to be a fool to buy into it, without complete details
but of course, it probably makes you feel good to believe such tripe accusations without proof

 

[LeftyHenry]

It has already been established that they pay well over the minimum wage.

The average wage of a sales clerk, which is one of the most common jobs, is $8.50 and comes out to $14,000 a year according to Tom Geohegan, author of Which Side Are You on?$20,000 a year is the poverty line.

Unqualified, your problem. Take personal responsibility.

How? It must be really easy for you to say that. Wal-Mart employees can barely feed their family let alone save up for college.

Got kids? Your problem, take personal responsbility.

...KILL THEM!! MWAHAHAHA!!!

Need more time to spend with them, sort out your priorities. You're right, these things are irrelevant.

Again, that's easier said than done. Someone needs to help the kids with their homework, someone needs to cook or feed them, someone needs put them to bed, to play with them, and act as a parent to the kid. You can be extremly organized but priorities won't matter.

They literally enslave them? How do you qualify that one?

Wage-slavery? They

Lets just stick to America huh buddy? Or at the very least, capitalist countries.

ummm...china is capitalist. There wouldn't be wal-marts and hasboros and ipod factories there if it wasn't.

And what? Are people less human from china?

But okay, I'll play your game.

In the last few years, well over 100 unfair labor practice charges have been filed against Wal-Mart throughout the country, with 43 charges filed in 2002 alone.

Since 1995, the U.S. government has been forced to issue at least 60 complaints against Wal-Mart at the National Labor Relations Board. [International Confederation of Free Trade Unions (ICFTU), Internationally Recognised Core Labour Standards in the United States: Report for the WTO General Council Review of the Trade Policies of the United States (Geneva, January 14-16, 2004)]

Wal-Mart’s labor law violations range from illegally firing workers who attempt to organize a union to unlawful surveillance, threats, and intimidation of employees who dare to speak out. [“Everyday Low Wages: The Hidden Price We All Pay for Wal-Mart," A Report by the Democratic Staff of the Committee on Education and the Workforce, 2/16/04]

[/QUOTE]
Wal-Mart can cover the cost of a dollar an hour wage increase by raising prices a half penny per dollar. For instance, a $2.00 pair of socks would then cost $2.01. This minimal increase would annually add up to $1,800 for each employee. [Analysis of Wal-Mart Annual Report 2005][/QUOTE]

I said small profit margin, and for their scale $11 Billion is small. How much of that becomes retained earnings? (I've done business forecasts for Wal-Mart, and im an Accountant, i've got their annual reports on file, dont test me)

$11 Billion is still alot of money from where I come from. Also the CEO for example has a wage of 1.2 million dollars per year however on a given year he can get up to $22 million in bonuses.

Treating them well is in their best interests, treating them too well, with unjustified pay rates or benefits is SO bad for business.

"Yes don't pay the humans over $20,000 dollars a year because then they won't be in poverty and that would be treating them 'too well' "

Again, if a community wants to save mom n pop, they must exercise self control and take personal responsibility for what business interests they support.

For some people, shopping at NOT shopping at Wal-Mart isn't an option. It's cheap and they have a family to provide for. But at what expense?

Oh thats a fair assessment. Where'd ya get that quote? Because on the whole Wal-Mart gets good reviews when it comes to conflict resolution. The only complaint like that that holds any water is that Wal-Mart is against unions. They are against unions for good reason.

Yes workers organizing would be horrid. In anycase, they do 'use my quote' so to speak. But I guess since it's not in America you couldn't give a ****.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

The average wage of a sales clerk, which is one of the most common jobs, is $8.50 and comes out to $14,000 a year according to Tom Geohegan, author of Which Side Are You on?$20,000 a year is the poverty line.

It is not the obligation of a store to pay everyone a wage above the poverty level. Especially one with operational level jobs as easy and unskilled as Wal-Mart's. You think every company should pay every employee as much? You know what happens then, prices go up, and then the cost of living goes up with it, and all these wage increases were for nothing. You cant cheat economics.

So McDonalds should pay 16 year old drop outs $20 grand a year? You know if you implement that plan, all that it does is shift the poverty line up a few thousand and negate the entire effort.

How? It must be really easy for you to say that. Wal-Mart employees can barely feed their family let alone save up for college.

I am a 21 year old college student, and my major requires that I stay for an extra year. I pay my own way through school and have been working since I was 14. You have no idea the family I grew up with nor the life I lived. There was no one to save up for college for me. And ya know what, I knew that a college education ISNT OWED TO ME BY SOCIETY.

...KILL THEM!! MWAHAHAHA!!!

What?

Again, that's easier said than done. Someone needs to help the kids with their homework, someone needs to cook or feed them, someone needs put them to bed, to play with them, and act as a parent to the kid. You can be extremly organized but priorities won't matter.

Everything you just listed are the responsibilities of the parents, not tax payers.

Wage-slavery? They

Forgot to finish your thought? Take your "wage-slavery" rhetoric elsewhere, no one here buys that. You cant escape the nature of hard work and its rewards.

You want everything to be unearned... The universe punishes people like you...

"Yes don't pay the humans over $20,000 dollars a year because then they won't be in poverty and that would be treating them 'too well'

People dont hire people to get them out of poverty, they hire them to fill a position, and they usually know their pay upfront. Again, there is a minimum wage, not a minimum yearly salary.

For some people, shopping at NOT shopping at Wal-Mart isn't an option. It's cheap and they have a family to provide for. But at what expense?

You cant have it both ways. You cant hate Wal-Mart and praise it for the very reason it functions. Wal-Mart is GOOD for the American consumer. Just because it is a big company doesnt mean its employees are entitled to anything more than McDonald's.

Yes workers organizing would be horrid. In anycase, they do 'use my quote' so to speak. But I guess since it's not in America you couldn't give a ****.

I am very Anti-Union. Stop making assumptions about what I care about, you're almost as bad at that as you are putting words in my mouth. Take what I say at face value.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

Let me make something clear, you operate under alot of false premises:

• You arent the only one who doesnt want people to starve
• You arent the only one who wants to alleviate poverty
• Working for a living doesnt make you a Wage-Slave, it makes you a Man
• It is not immoral for a person to spend the money they earned as they see fit

You think just because I'm on the other side of the debate that I love poverty, or that I want children to starve. If you really believe this... I dont know what to say to you. No one disagrees that everyone should have healthcare, and a home, and food, and time to raise their family.

Everyone SHOULD have these things, but how you get them to have these things is where we disagree. I dont feel that yours or anybody's needs gives them a claim on what belongs to me.

I learned the hard way that you cant spend more than you make. I have no respect for people who spend money that should be their kids lunch money on cigarettes or alchohol. When the going gets tough, well you know...

Why do you feel that a comfortable living is owed to you?

Who should pay for it? If your answers are:

• Rich People
• The Government
• Corporations

You are DEAD wrong. Take personal responsibility for your life. I swear, I could argue your point of view better. Believe me you havent said anything I havent heard before, short of those garbage LTV's.

 

[LeftyHenry]

It is not the obligation of a store to pay everyone a wage above the poverty level. Especially one with operational level jobs as easy and unskilled as Wal-Mart's.

I think it is an obligation. It's not even that much to ask. 20,000 a year? That's nothing! You can barly live in the ghetto with that! Costs of living have risen so much here in NYC that 100,000 and less is considered middle class! It's a joke! You must want people to live in hits and eat bugs.

You think every company should pay every employee as much? You know what happens then, prices go up, and then the cost of living goes up with it, and all these wage increases were for nothing. You cant cheat economics.

It's not cheating economics, it's just the way capitalism works which is why I despise it. Especially in today's world where there is absolutly no social consciousness at all! The CEO makes about 24,000,000 a year including all the bonuses and he can't even pay his workers decently? What kind of economy is this?

I am a 21 year old college student, and my major requires that I stay for an extra year. I pay my own way through school and have been working since I was 14. You have no idea the family I grew up with nor the life I lived. There was no one to save up for college for me. And ya know what, I knew that a college education ISNT OWED TO ME BY SOCIETY.

Oh really? Because I could've sworn you said you were an accountant who had all of Wal-Marts records on file!

And since you apparently have gone from rags-to-riches like just about every conservative I debate on the internet, wouldn't you have just a little sympathy for people who weren't as lucky? Wouldn't you understand what life is like?

Everything you just listed are the responsibilities of the parents, not tax payers.

exactly and a corporation paying it's employees has nothing to do with the tax payers.

But the tax payers do pay wal-mart to wipe their *** with ben franks

A Wal-Mart official stated that “it is common” for the company to request subsidies “in about one-third of all [retail] projects.” This would suggest that over a thousand Wal-Mart stores have been subsidized. [“Shopping For Subsidies: How Wal-Mart Uses Taxpayer Money to Finance Its Never-Ending Growth,” Good Job First, May 2004]

Link Here

Forgot to finish your thought? Take your "wage-slavery" rhetoric elsewhere, no one here buys that. You cant escape the nature of hard work and its rewards.

Relax buddy I messed up. Let me start again.

Wage-Slavery. The averge worker must listen to his bosses every want and need otherwise he get's canned. Does he have power over his wage? Sometimes. But not in big corporations like Wal-Mart where the average worker has a family to feed and can't risk trying to get a better wage. It is wage slavery because jobs like the ones in Wal-Mart pay next to nothing keeping the worker way under the poverty line. It is a vicious cycle and capitalism is to blame.

You want everything to be unearned... The universe punishes people like you...

Do you know anything about me? No? Good! Shut up. I work hard like everyone and live fine. I don't want anything to be unearned but I do want people to be treated with decency and not thrown to the streets in poverty. I will not stand for this barbarian system.

People dont hire people to get them out of poverty, they hire them to fill a position, and they usually know their pay upfront. Again, there is a minimum wage, not a minimum yearly salary.

There should be considering that we know the poverty line. Obviously people don't hire people to get them out of poverty but you shouldn't pay them into it.

You cant have it both ways. You cant hate Wal-Mart and praise it for the very reason it functions. Wal-Mart is GOOD for the American consumer. Just because it is a big company doesnt mean its employees are entitled to anything more than McDonald's.

Did I ever say I like McDonalds? I absolutly despise it! Good for the consumer. HA! What's good for the consumer is bad for the employees, the enviroment, and the tax payers! That's why this system is messed up!

I am very Anti-Union. Stop making assumptions about what I care about, you're almost as bad at that as you are putting words in my mouth. Take what I say at face value.

Oh please don't be a hypocrit! You make just as many assumptions! You claimed I'm lazy. You claim I'm against hard work. We both make assumptions so you take what I say at face value.



EDIT: LINK

 

[LeftyHenry]

Let me make something clear, you operate under alot of false premises:

You arent the only one who doesnt want people to starve

Duh! But I'm the only one here who advocates a system which does something about it!

You arent the only one who wants to alleviate poverty

Duh! But I'm, the only here who advocates doing something about it

(in this debate)

Working for a living doesnt make you a Wage-Slave, it makes you a Man

That's just capitalist rhetoric. I don't think so.

It is not immoral for a person to spend the money they earned as they see fit

No it's not which is why I advocate an LTV system however it is immoral to own six mansions while millions are in dire poverty.

You think just because I'm on the other side of the debate that I love poverty, or that I want children to starve. If you really believe this... I dont know what to say to you. No one disagrees that everyone should have healthcare, and a home, and food, and time to raise their family.

You sure don't agree with that. You offer no solution or no idea just "capitalism is cool". I know you don't love poverty, but your ideals advocate it.

Everyone SHOULD have these things, but how you get them to have these things is where we disagree. I dont feel that yours or anybody's needs gives them a claim on what belongs to me.

Everyone should have to right to necessities of life as long as they are able to participate in society. It's as simple as that. You put it whatever way you want. That I 'want to steal from you' or whatever but it's not at all that, I want to create a humaine society where no one is denied food, water, and shelter especially when THERE IS A HUGE SURPLUS OF IT.

I learned the hard way that you cant spend more than you make. I have no respect for people who spend money that should be their kids lunch money on cigarettes or alchohol. When the going gets tough, well you know...

I don't either but I think what you're implying is a awful stereotype which does not apply in any way to most people in poverty.

Why do you feel that a comfortable living is owed to you?

Who should pay for it? If your answers are:

• Rich People
• The Government
• Corporations

You are DEAD wrong. Take personal responsibility for your life. I swear, I could argue your point of view better. Believe me you havent said anything I havent heard before, short of those garbage LTV's.

Those 'garbage' LTVs are the solution to poverty. This is what leads me to think you 'love' poverty because a solution is staring you in the face a you whine that it's yours and they don't deserve it. This is how I know you neve were in poverty because anyone who was would know that they were lucky to get out and the ones who were unlucky need help!

What do you mean you could argue my point of view better when you haven't said anything that the 'generic conservative' on this forum wouldn't have said.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

Duh! But I'm the only one here who advocates a system which does something about it!

All of your advocating isnt going to save anyone.

You sure don't agree with that. You offer no solution or no idea just "capitalism is cool". I know you don't love poverty, but your ideals advocate it.

1. I've never said "capitalism is cool."
2. You dont recognise any actual attempts to solve problems other than to change the system.

Everyone should have to right to necessities of life as long as they are able to participate in society. It's as simple as that. You put it whatever way you want. That I 'want to steal from you' or whatever but it's not at all that, I want to create a humaine society where no one is denied food, water, and shelter especially when THERE IS A HUGE SURPLUS OF IT.

No one is denied anything. There are no surpluses. We PRODUCE THINGS, and you pay for them when you earn the money. You have a right to the pursuit of happiness, thats it. There is no right to 3 square meals a day and a roof over your head. Everyone should have these things, but just saying that solves nothing.

Those 'garbage' LTVs are the solution to poverty. This is what leads me to think you 'love' poverty because a solution is staring you in the face a you whine that it's yours and they don't deserve it. This is how I know you neve were in poverty because anyone who was would know that they were lucky to get out and the ones who were unlucky need help!

No YOUR LTV's is just YOUR answer to the abolition of currency. And it has far too many shortcomings to ever function economically. How are LTV's superior to money? You just havent answered that in a substantive way.

I whine? I whine that WHAT is mine? The fruits of my labor? I whine that the paychecks I recieve belong to me? Again you are so over-dramatic i've lost the capacity to take you seriously. There is a big difference between needing help and deserving it. When you use the word deserve you imply that it is everyones obligation to do so, and that is a very dangerous idea.

You "know" I was never in poverty? First of all I never said I was, I implied something you most definately wouldnt understand. Both of my parents worked several jobs night and day to support my family. I was raised by my oldest brother because no one would pay my family a decent wage, so they split time between work and sleep.

I was never in rags, and i'm hardly into riches. That is because I learned early on that you have to work hard in this world because no one is going to help you. Yeah the system isnt perfect but you cant find me a better one on this earth. Years later im the last of my brothers looking forward to his college graduation.

You offer no solution, and we wouldnt have needed your help. I was taught the value of hard work. I told you once to take what I say at face value, because your assumptions are almost always full of s***! You really do know dick about me.

What do you mean you could argue my point of view better when you haven't said anything that the 'generic conservative' on this forum wouldn't have said.

Generic conservative? Again you know nothing about me, or my political leanings. I'm a die-hard libertarian and im all about the free market.

I say I could argue your point of view because you are using socialism 101 talking points that any political science major with a basic understanding of economics can easily debunk. You have no facts, just feelings. You have no solutions, just assertions about a system you dont understand well enough to insist we scrap.

If I had a million dollars, it is not wrong for me to NOT give it to those who could benefit from it. What I chose to do with my money says alot about my character, but I would never support a Government that forced me it to those who they "Plan" it should go to.

 

[LeftyHenry]

All of your advocating isnt going to save anyone.

LOL than why are we here debating at all if it doesn't matter? The point is that i support it just like you support the opposite.

1. I've never said "capitalism is cool."
2. You dont recognise any actual attempts to solve problems other than to change the system.

1. That's your line of thinking. Basically that they should pull themselves up by their own bootstraps since they deserve it.
2. What's wrong with that. And as a matter of fact, I do participate in the beourgious politic but look at where its gotton people in poverty?

No one is denied anything. There are no surpluses. We PRODUCE THINGS, and you pay for them when you earn the money. You have a right to the pursuit of happiness, thats it. There is no right to 3 square meals a day and a roof over your head. Everyone should have these things, but just saying that solves nothing.

And that's where we differ. I believe contrary to capitalist belief, that yes, we are all humans and we should be treated like humans.

By surplus I mean there is plenty of food, it's just not distributed equally and if it was starvation would be minimal.

No YOUR LTV's is just YOUR answer to the abolition of currency. And it has far too many shortcomings to ever function economically. How are LTV's superior to money? You just havent answered that in a substantive way.

I answered it plenty of times. Your only rebuttel is just saying that it won't work and that it's garbage. LTVs are superior to money because they provide an incentive to work while at the same time eliminated inequality in wealth and thus poverty and starvation.

I whine? I whine that WHAT is mine? The fruits of my labor? I whine that the paychecks I recieve belong to me? Again you are so over-dramatic i've lost the capacity to take you seriously. There is a big difference between needing help and deserving it. When you use the word deserve you imply that it is everyones obligation to do so, and that is a very dangerous idea.

And I've lost capacity to take you seriously. Every paragraph you write is dripping with the idea that it's mine, so **** people who are starving.

You "know" I was never in poverty? First of all I never said I was, I implied something you most definately wouldnt understand. Both of my parents worked several jobs night and day to support my family. I was raised by my oldest brother because no one would pay my family a decent wage, so they split time between work and sleep.

...yet you encourage paying workers next to nothing despite the way your family was treated.

I was never in rags, and i'm hardly into riches. That is because I learned early on that you have to work hard in this world because no one is going to help you. Yeah the system isnt perfect but you cant find me a better one on this earth. Years later im the last of my brothers looking forward to his college graduation.

I have yet you ignore. I worked hard to. I've been working since I was 13. First at a Bar later I worked as an intern to a web design company. I've worked hard at school and at my job. I'm in no way lazy, I just think that human beings deserve to recieve basic humaine treatment. I hate capitalism for what it's done to my family and what it does to millions everyday.

You offer no solution, and we wouldnt have needed your help. I was taught the value of hard work. I told you once to take what I say at face value, because your assumptions are almost always full of s***! You really do know dick about me.

You've said the exact same to me buddy. You've basically accused me of being a lazy thug in different words. And stop with that stupid one line rhetoric about hard work. My parents worked hard their entire life yet they have little to show for it. Couldn't pay for my college, couldn't pay for many things. Hard work and getting rich is an illusion. Millions do and end up with nothing when they die. Explain that to them.

Generic conservative? Again you know nothing about me, or my political leanings. I'm a die-hard libertarian and im all about the free market.

Ok I'm sorry, you use a different name. Libertarians are extremly conservative ecomically and we're arguing economics right now. I do know your political leanings because I've debated people who bring up the exact same rhetoric.

I say I could argue your point of view because you are using socialism 101 talking points that any political science major with a basic understanding of economics can easily debunk. You have no facts, just feelings. You have no solutions, just assertions about a system you dont understand well enough to insist we scrap.

Dude, I live in it. I think I know a little about it. Just because you've gone to college doesn't make you ****ing smarter than me. You're generalizing despite the fact that last paragraph you were whining how I shouldn't make assumptions. You have no facts. You're a broken record! You keep saying **** like "they're lazy" and "If you work hard, you'll get rich" and "it's my money, screw the starving. Personal responisibility". Its stupid bullshit which if you think for a second, and use a tiny bit of logic, will realize is absolutly false!

If I had a million dollars, it is not wrong for me to NOT give it to those who could benefit from it. What I chose to do with my money says alot about my character, but I would never support a Government that forced me it to those who they "Plan" it should go to.

Great more pre-recordings.

There is no currency in communism besides LTVs and you can use those freely.

 

[Kandahar]

Most of the time they're not. Their hungry three children give them no option and Wal-Mart knows that.

Well if they have three hungry children, why would you want to set a minimum wage that causes employers to fire people? If you think it's hard to feed three hungry children on $5.15 per hour, try feeding children on $0 per hour because you can't find a job because of stupid wage laws.

It may make you feel morally superior to wag your finger at Wal-Mart when you're a rich white activist, but the bottom line is your policies harm the people you claim to be helping.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

...yet you encourage paying workers next to nothing despite the way your family was treated.

Would you stop with the double talk. No one ENCOURAGES PAYING NEXT TO NOTHING. This is a thread about Wal-Mart and they are known to pay over 8 dollars an hour w/ benefits.

You've said the exact same to me buddy. You've basically accused me of being a lazy thug in different words. And stop with that stupid one line rhetoric about hard work. My parents worked hard their entire life yet they have little to show for it. Couldn't pay for my college, couldn't pay for many things. Hard work and getting rich is an illusion. Millions do and end up with nothing when they die. Explain that to them.

I've never said you were lazy, I said you wanted the necessities in life to be unearned. I never called you a thug I said you support the use of force.

Ok I'm sorry, you use a different name. Libertarians are extremly conservative ecomically and we're arguing economics right now. I do know your political leanings because I've debated people who bring up the exact same rhetoric.

Please quote me on the alleged rhetoric i've used on issues of economics. Anything I've said i've been very careful about because I know how many people view this thread and have an understanding in economics.

Dude, I live in it. I think I know a little about it. Just because you've gone to college doesn't make you ****ing smarter than me. You're generalizing despite the fact that last paragraph you were whining how I shouldn't make assumptions. You have no facts. You're a broken record! You keep saying **** like "they're lazy" and "If you work hard, you'll get rich" and "it's my money, screw the starving. Personal responisibility". Its stupid bullshit which if you think for a second, and use a tiny bit of logic, will realize is absolutly false!

How have I generalized or whined, please quote me. You have done all the whining. I've never called the impoverished lazy, and I've been careful never to say "if you work hard you'll get rich" I've said that you should work for a living, and that a man who knows not to consume more than he has produced will never go hungry.

When you use quotes, make sure you're QUOTING ME. When have I said screw the starving?

Personal responsibility is false? I have no facts? All you do is put words in my mouth. You've ceased to make points, just ad hominem personal attacks. The only true thing about me you've said was when you called me selfish.

There is no currency in communism besides LTVs and you can use those freely.

I guess you'd better contact Merriam Webster and let him know you're the new authority on the definition of communism. "Use those freely" As if distribution from an arbitrary judgement system and immediate disposal of can be considered "free."

Just because you've gone to college doesn't make you ****ing smarter than me.

This part made me chuckle. Who said anything about needing a college education to be smarter than you? "You think you're better than me!"

 

[Stace]

No Galen, I think this isn't that type of hunger. I think it's actual starvation like eating once a day or sometimes not eating at all.

Uh.....I regularly eat only once a day, and some days not at all (when I'm not pregnant, anyway!!)....and it's not for lack of food, either, it's because I just don't get that hungry very often. So I'd hardly classify that as starvation. Now, going an entire week or more with absolutely no food? Yeah, that's starving.

 

[Stace]

I won't lie, I shop at Wal Mart. It's cheap, which is good when you're broke like me, lol. I don't always shop there....personally, I prefer Target for a lot of things, and I'll usually buy groceries at Food Lion 'cause we have an MVP card and all that....but if I need groceries AND other items, I'll go to Wal Mart because it's a lot more economical to go to one store and get everything I need, rather than wasting gas driving all over town.

Oh, and someone brought up employee abuse a page or two ago, in reference to both Target and Wal Mart. I worked at Target a few years ago, and I know multiple people that have worked at Wal Mart. We all earned over $7 an hour. We all got our breaks when we were supposed to get them, we worked fair hours, and we certainly didn't do any sort of slave labor or anything like that. Employee abuse, at least in the stores themselves, is nonexistant in my experience. I've seen far worse treatment from other businesses.

 

[aquapub]

Have you ever wondered why Wal-Mart has so little competition? Every time liberals get to make it more expensive to do business here through things like minimum wage hikes, protecting frivolous lawsuits, using unions to strong-arm $30/hour wages for auto workers, etc., etc., etc., it kills off more of Wal-Mart's competition and forces companies to move jobs overseas.

Now labor unions and trial lawyers have set their sights on one of the few places left in this country that will stand up to them. Look it up. EVERY SINGLE ONE of these outrageously dishonest smear campagins are funded by trial lawyers and/or labor unions-both of which have a vested interest in deceptively trashing about the company.

Want less monopoly, more competition? Want more jobs in this country? Want better health insurance? Vote Republican.

Republicans keep trying to do something about the frivolous lawsuits and illegal immigration that rise our health care costs, kill our jobs, and bottom out our wages. Democrats defend them. Republicans also understand that federal laws now cover everything unions were formed to protect workers from. Unions now are nothing more than a colossal self-serving mafia who screws over the government, small businesses, AND the worker.