• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Why I like the "transgender" argument

Rickeroo

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 16, 2017
Messages
4,767
Reaction score
1,478
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I was inspired by @Craig234 's thread here. I think very few people on the right would deny that transgenderism exists and gender is on a scale. A man could identify with feminine traits, be in touch with his emotions, and want to teach kindergarten - a "woman" in every way but physical. A butch woman could drink cheap beer, swear profusely, get into bar fights, and work in a coal mine - a "man" in every way but physical. Everyone should live their life free of gender norms if they want.

So far so good, but the left takes a misstep by declaring that Susan B. Anthony, Rosa Parks and Bruce Jenner are all women. They also claim that Chaz Bono is just as much a man as Arnold Schwarzenegger, but this is minor. Due to the oppressed/oppressor dynamic, Chaz Bono isn't nearly as offensive as Bruce Jenner, so trans men really don't register when describing transgenderism. I use 'transgenderism' here in this second paragraph as the left wants to use it - a trans woman is actually a woman just like Susan B. Anthony.

Think about what we're exposed to on a daily basis as to how the left defines a woman. They make 72 cents on the dollar compared to men. They fought for suffrage (something men already had). Mean men in black robes denied them the right to abortions. Women want to have careers and not bother raising kids (like men). Women are subject to domestic violence (from men). Notice a pattern here? Women are defined in terms of how they are oppressed by men. Women have a "shared history" and "lived experience", mostly in relation to men.

Women being defined this way has it's political advantages, but this tactic's major fault is revealed when the left allows a male to become a member of the oppressed female class. I'm not talking about a man wearing high heels and teaching 1st graders (to each his own) - I'm talking about a man becoming a woman: Bruce Jenner's "womanhood" fought for reproductive rights, suffrage and injustice against men through the ages. Everything that a woman is - all the struggles against men - Bruce Jenner embodies that identity and "is" a woman in every sense of the word. It's an insult to women victims of the patriarchy, and I hope the left continues hammering it home.
 
I was inspired by @Craig234 's thread here. I think very few people on the right would deny that transgenderism exists and gender is on a scale. A man could identify with feminine traits, be in touch with his emotions, and want to teach kindergarten - a "woman" in every way but physical. A butch woman could drink cheap beer, swear profusely, get into bar fights, and work in a coal mine - a "man" in every way but physical. Everyone should live their life free of gender norms if they want.

So far so good, but the left takes a misstep by declaring that Susan B. Anthony, Rosa Parks and Bruce Jenner are all women. They also claim that Chaz Bono is just as much a man as Arnold Schwarzenegger, but this is minor. Due to the oppressed/oppressor dynamic, Chaz Bono isn't nearly as offensive as Bruce Jenner, so trans men really don't register when describing transgenderism. I use 'transgenderism' here in this second paragraph as the left wants to use it - a trans woman is actually a woman just like Susan B. Anthony.

Think about what we're exposed to on a daily basis as to how the left defines a woman. They make 72 cents on the dollar compared to men. They fought for suffrage (something men already had). Mean men in black robes denied them the right to abortions. Women want to have careers and not bother raising kids (like men). Women are subject to domestic violence (from men). Notice a pattern here? Women are defined in terms of how they are oppressed by men. Women have a "shared history" and "lived experience", mostly in relation to men.

Women being defined this way has it's political advantages, but this tactic's major fault is revealed when the left allows a male to become a member of the oppressed female class. I'm not talking about a man wearing high heels and teaching 1st graders (to each his own) - I'm talking about a man becoming a woman: Bruce Jenner's "womanhood" fought for reproductive rights, suffrage and injustice against men through the ages. Everything that a woman is - all the struggles against men - Bruce Jenner embodies that identity and "is" a woman in every sense of the word. It's an insult to women victims of the patriarchy, and I hope the left continues hammering it home.

for your sever lack of topical education and the vast factually wrong claims and lies in your post

Quick Facts:
Gender =/= sex
Biology =/= gender
Man WOman =/= only gender
Transgender =/= sexual orientation
Transgender =/= delusion
Transgender =/= crossdressing/drag queens
Transgender =/= mental disorder
Transgender =/= Gender Dysphoria
Transitioning =/= child abuse
Transitioning =/= changing biological sex
Transitioning =/= Gender Dysphoria

Links for Education
 
So far so good, but the left takes a misstep by declaring that Susan B. Anthony, Rosa Parks and Bruce Jenner are all women. They also claim that Chaz Bono is just as much a man as Arnold Schwarzenegger, but this is minor. Due to the oppressed/oppressor dynamic, Chaz Bono isn't nearly as offensive as Bruce Jenner, so trans men really don't register when describing transgenderism. I use 'transgenderism' here in this second paragraph as the left wants to use it - a trans woman is actually a woman just like Susan B. Anthony.
Why are you assuming that everyone defined as a woman is being called "just like" all other women? You said yourself that gender norms don't define gender which is a valid point, highlighting that there can be and is massive diversity within any given gender label, more so than there is between the "norms" or "average" differences between men and women in general.

After all, you might not consider Chaz Bono to be as much a man as Arnold Schwarzenegger but does that mean you consider every single biological male (including all the transwomen of course) to be as much a man as Schwarzenegger?

Think about what we're exposed to on a daily basis as to how the left defines a woman.
The things you list aren't about defining the word woman though. They use the word as it is commonly understood in each given context (which isn't necessarily exactly the same for each).

Like pretty much every word, "woman" can have multiple different valid meanings depending on when, where and how it is being used (even there, I'm using it to mean the word itself rather than the individuals it describes). You can't have a singular definition of "woman" any more than you can of "car", "tree" or "fish".

So transwomen are women (and transmen are men) but they're also trans. That's why we use those words to describe them after all. :cool:
 
for your sever lack of topical education and the vast factually wrong claims and lies in your post

Quick Facts:
Gender =/= sex
Biology =/= gender
Man WOman =/= only gender
Transgender =/= sexual orientation
Transgender =/= delusion
Transgender =/= crossdressing/drag queens
Transgender =/= mental disorder
Transgender =/= Gender Dysphoria
Transitioning =/= child abuse
Transitioning =/= changing biological sex
Transitioning =/= Gender Dysphoria

Links for Education
Thank you. You same me from writing on of my 3 paragraph missives.

Why is this so medical fact difficult and such a problem for social conservatives to understand?

1.)Are trans people a threat to society,

2.) Do they also have trans feelings that they are desperate to repress?

3.) Or do they just need a minority to hate?
 
Thank you. You same me from writing on of my 3 paragraph missives.

Why is this so medical fact difficult and such a problem for social conservatives to understand?

1.)Are trans people a threat to society,

2.) Do they also have trans feelings that they are desperate to repress?

3.) Or do they just need a minority to hate?
you're welcome

and typically bigotry, willful ignorance and or hate just don't care about facts
1.) nope
2.) i bet that's the case in more than a couple
3.) typically this is a big part in bigoted feelings
 
I think most conservatives (and most liberals) would recognize that for some reason, some men think they are women...but they arent women...and never will be. I also think most conservatives (and most liberals) think the whole gender lunacy is just that.
 
Thank you. You same me from writing on of my 3 paragraph missives.

Why is this so medical fact difficult and such a problem for social conservatives to understand?

1.)Are trans people a threat to society,

2.) Do they also have trans feelings that they are desperate to repress?

3.) Or do they just need a minority to hate?


LMAO............... transitioning middle school kids is the new rationale for you and your ilk. So yeah.....you are a threat.;

Pretty sick stuff.

And before you even got there.........................I fully support ADULT transgendered people and am considered a friend by some that I have done home improvement jobs for, and there is a transgendered female who keeps an eye on everyone's boats at the marina and we all appreciate her.
 
I think most conservatives (and most liberals) would recognize that for some reason, some men think they are women...but they arent women...and never will be. I also think most conservatives (and most liberals) think the whole gender lunacy is just that.
It would seem that most conservatives are ignorant of medical science. Gender is also not binary, just as sexual orientation is not binary. 50 years ago the idea of openly gay people with equal rights were outrageous to conservatives.


 
It would seem that most conservatives are ignorant of medical science. Gender is also not binary, just as sexual orientation is not binary. 50 years ago the idea of openly gay people with equal rights were outrageous to conservatives.




Nobody gives a shit what unapologetic child groomers say.

The trans community went way past acceptance to......................................... "in your face"
 
LMAO............... transitioning middle school kids is the new rationale for you and your ilk. So yeah.....you are a threat.;

Pretty sick stuff.

And before you even got there.........................I fully support ADULT transgendered people and am considered a friend by some that I have done home improvement jobs for, and there is a transgendered female who keeps an eye on everyone's boats at the marina and we all appreciate her.
How are teens being transitioned by Drs? Please describe what happens at their Dr appointments. If adults can be trans because of their psychological gender identity then why cant teens also know that they are trans, because of their psychological gender identity, or does this knowledge only become known to them after their 18th birthday?

I have a hair appt (cut, fluff and highlights)in an hour, so feel free to trash talk me for the next 4 hours. I might respond after 8:00 pm EDT. 👩
 
I was inspired by @Craig234 's thread here. I think very few people on the right would deny that transgenderism exists and gender is on a scale. A man could identify with feminine traits, be in touch with his emotions, and want to teach kindergarten - a "woman" in every way but physical. A butch woman could drink cheap beer, swear profusely, get into bar fights, and work in a coal mine - a "man" in every way but physical. Everyone should live their life free of gender norms if they want.

So far so good, but the left takes a misstep by declaring that Susan B. Anthony, Rosa Parks and Bruce Jenner are all women. They also claim that Chaz Bono is just as much a man as Arnold Schwarzenegger, but this is minor. Due to the oppressed/oppressor dynamic, Chaz Bono isn't nearly as offensive as Bruce Jenner, so trans men really don't register when describing transgenderism. I use 'transgenderism' here in this second paragraph as the left wants to use it - a trans woman is actually a woman just like Susan B. Anthony.

Think about what we're exposed to on a daily basis as to how the left defines a woman. They make 72 cents on the dollar compared to men. They fought for suffrage (something men already had). Mean men in black robes denied them the right to abortions. Women want to have careers and not bother raising kids (like men). Women are subject to domestic violence (from men). Notice a pattern here? Women are defined in terms of how they are oppressed by men. Women have a "shared history" and "lived experience", mostly in relation to men.

Women being defined this way has it's political advantages, but this tactic's major fault is revealed when the left allows a male to become a member of the oppressed female class. I'm not talking about a man wearing high heels and teaching 1st graders (to each his own) - I'm talking about a man becoming a woman: Bruce Jenner's "womanhood" fought for reproductive rights, suffrage and injustice against men through the ages. Everything that a woman is - all the struggles against men - Bruce Jenner embodies that identity and "is" a woman in every sense of the word. It's an insult to women victims of the patriarchy, and I hope the left continues hammering it home.
I don't see why this has to be so complicated.

You have men, you have women and you have the mentally ill.

You treat the mentally ill with compassion and you let the rest get on with their lives.

It's simple.
 
Nobody gives a shit what unapologetic child groomers say.
You don't give a shit what trans teens themselves have to say, nor what the experts in the medical community say... instead preferring to throw idiot insults and vile slander against any scientific information and practice at odds with your 'common sense.'
 
You don't give a shit what trans teens themselves have to say, nor what the experts in the medical community say... instead preferring to throw idiot insults and vile slander against any scientific information and practice at odds with your 'common sense.'

I don't care what you say either. The trans community went from wanting acceptance................................. to grooming middle schoolers and you know it.
 
Women being defined this way has it's political advantages, but this tactic's major fault is revealed when the left allows a male to become a member of the oppressed female class.
I think most conservatives (and most liberals) would recognize that for some reason, some men think they are women...but they arent women...and never will be. I also think most conservatives (and most liberals) think the whole gender lunacy is just that.
I don't see why this has to be so complicated.

You have men, you have women and you have the mentally ill.
When you're talking about animals, do you guys talk about male dogs, female cats etc., or do you talk about women dogs, men cats...?
If someone tells you to "be a man" do you look at them in total bewilderment and tell them that you already have XY chromosomes?

You say it's not complicated, but some apparently quite simple things seem to elude you:
- Male and female refer to biological sex in any species.
- Man and woman are social terms used exclusively for humans, sometimes as a synonym for sex but often for gendered characteristics.

Start with the basics, guys. Females will never become males (at least with present medical technologies); trans men don't think they're males, but they understand that they're men; and being obsessed about what is or what may once have been between their legs as the sole defining feature of their identity kind of looks like a symptom of mental illness.

If you can't even get the basics right - or for reasons best known to yourselves, obstinately refuse to do so - there's not much hope of thinking clearly about anything beyond that.
 
When you're talking about animals, do you guys talk about male dogs, female cats etc., or do you talk about women dogs, men cats...?
If someone tells you to "be a man" do you look at them in total bewilderment and tell them that you already have XY chromosomes?

You say it's not complicated, but some apparently quite simple things seem to elude you:
- Male and female refer to biological sex in any species.
- Man and woman are social terms used exclusively for humans, sometimes as a synonym for sex but often for gendered characteristics.

Start with the basics, guys. Females will never become males (at least with present medical technologies); trans men don't think they're males, but they understand that they're men; and being obsessed about what is or what may once have been between their legs as the sole defining feature of their identity kind of looks like a symptom of mental illness.

If you can't even get the basics right - or for reasons best known to yourselves, obstinately refuse to do so - there's not much hope of thinking clearly about anything beyond that.


Please disclose your medical and Psychiatric credentials?

Getting a little tired of your confirmation bias cut & paste arguments.
 
When you're talking about animals, do you guys talk about male dogs, female cats etc., or do you talk about women dogs, men cats...?
If someone tells you to "be a man" do you look at them in total bewilderment and tell them that you already have XY chromosomes?

You say it's not complicated, but some apparently quite simple things seem to elude you:
- Male and female refer to biological sex in any species.
- Man and woman are social terms used exclusively for humans, sometimes as a synonym for sex but often for gendered characteristics.

Start with the basics, guys. Females will never become males (at least with present medical technologies); trans men don't think they're males, but they understand that they're men; and being obsessed about what is or what may once have been between their legs as the sole defining feature of their identity kind of looks like a symptom of mental illness.

If you can't even get the basics right - or for reasons best known to yourselves, obstinately refuse to do so - there's not much hope of thinking clearly about anything beyond that.
You're talking about the basics of leftist talking points, which is still confusing as hell.

It's best to get to the ACTUAL basics which is what I laid out earlier in this thread.
 
You're talking about the basics of leftist talking points, which is still confusing as hell.

It's best to get to the ACTUAL basics which is what I laid out earlier in this thread.
When you're talking about animals, do you guys talk about male dogs, female cats etc., or do you talk about women dogs, men cats...?
If someone tells you to "be a man" do you look at them in total bewilderment and tell them that you already have XY chromosomes?
 
Who cares what gender anyone identifies with?

Live and let live.

Grown adults can do whatever they want.

Exceptions to the “live and let live” should only come into play when an individual identifying as a woman has a biological advantage over a biological woman (example Lia Thomas in sports) and protecting children from making permanent alterations to their bodies before they are of an age when they can fully understand the consequences of that decision.

Past those rare exceptions….leave these poor folks alone. They’re already struggling with enough.
 
When you're talking about animals, do you guys talk about male dogs, female cats etc., or do you talk about women dogs, men cats...?
If someone tells you to "be a man" do you look at them in total bewilderment and tell them that you already have XY chromosomes?

You say it's not complicated, but some apparently quite simple things seem to elude you:
- Male and female refer to biological sex in any species.
- Man and woman are social terms used exclusively for humans, sometimes as a synonym for sex but often for gendered characteristics.

Start with the basics, guys. Females will never become males (at least with present medical technologies); trans men don't think they're males, but they understand that they're men; and being obsessed about what is or what may once have been between their legs as the sole defining feature of their identity kind of looks like a symptom of mental illness.

If you can't even get the basics right - or for reasons best known to yourselves, obstinately refuse to do so - there's not much hope of thinking clearly about anything beyond that.


Men are men. Scientifically. Biologically. Gender. Genus. Type. Women are women. Scientifically. Biologically. Gender. Genus. Type.

You can call yourself whatever you want under any fairy tale pretense you have decided to embrace. It doesnt change scientific reality.

The tragic reality is that if people accepted FACT...that men are men that for whatever reason feel like they should be a woman...but they arent...but they FEEL like it...but they arent...if they ACCEPT that then they can make whatever cosmetic change they want to make to help the carpets better match the drapes...and they wont be disgusted with themselves when they see the facts staring back at them from the mirror. AND it would have the added benefit of not needing others to feed into their delusion in order for them to accept themselves.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ren
I was inspired by @Craig234 's thread here. I think very few people on the right would deny that transgenderism exists and gender is on a scale. A man could identify with feminine traits, be in touch with his emotions, and want to teach kindergarten - a "woman" in every way but physical. A butch woman could drink cheap beer, swear profusely, get into bar fights, and work in a coal mine - a "man" in every way but physical. Everyone should live their life free of gender norms if they want.

So far so good, but the left takes a misstep by declaring that Susan B. Anthony, Rosa Parks and Bruce Jenner are all women. They also claim that Chaz Bono is just as much a man as Arnold Schwarzenegger, but this is minor. Due to the oppressed/oppressor dynamic, Chaz Bono isn't nearly as offensive as Bruce Jenner, so trans men really don't register when describing transgenderism. I use 'transgenderism' here in this second paragraph as the left wants to use it - a trans woman is actually a woman just like Susan B. Anthony.

Think about what we're exposed to on a daily basis as to how the left defines a woman. They make 72 cents on the dollar compared to men. They fought for suffrage (something men already had). Mean men in black robes denied them the right to abortions. Women want to have careers and not bother raising kids (like men). Women are subject to domestic violence (from men). Notice a pattern here? Women are defined in terms of how they are oppressed by men. Women have a "shared history" and "lived experience", mostly in relation to men.

Women being defined this way has it's political advantages, but this tactic's major fault is revealed when the left allows a male to become a member of the oppressed female class. I'm not talking about a man wearing high heels and teaching 1st graders (to each his own) - I'm talking about a man becoming a woman: Bruce Jenner's "womanhood" fought for reproductive rights, suffrage and injustice against men through the ages. Everything that a woman is - all the struggles against men - Bruce Jenner embodies that identity and "is" a woman in every sense of the word. It's an insult to women victims of the patriarchy, and I hope the left continues hammering it home.


I was with you until the second paragraph. What I thought might be a positive, open discussion around the topic degenerates into another attack on the mystical "left" who seem to create rampant paranoia among the Trump & wanna bes.

Gender as a 'tactical' advantage demonstrates your abundant ignorance of the issue,
 
When you're talking about animals, do you guys talk about male dogs, female cats etc., or do you talk about women dogs, men cats...?
If someone tells you to "be a man" do you look at them in total bewilderment and tell them that you already have XY chromosomes?
When I'm talking about any living being that deposits sperm, I'm referring to a male or a man. When I am talking about any living being that receives sperm and offspring begins, I am referring to a female or a woman.

If someone tells someone else to "be a man" that means that someone else might be acting like a pansy and he needs to be bold and step up.
 
When I'm talking about any living being that deposits sperm, I'm referring to a male or a man. When I am talking about any living being that receives sperm and offspring begins, I am referring to a female or a woman.

If someone tells someone else to "be a man" that means that someone else might be acting like a pansy and he needs to be bold and step up.
Nicely dodged (y)
 
Nicely dodged (y)
Not really. I just don't get off in the weeds with shit like this.


Keep it simple, keep it true.

-- Ren
 
It would seem that most conservatives are ignorant of medical science. Gender is also not binary, just as sexual orientation is not binary. 50 years ago the idea of openly gay people with equal rights were outrageous to conservatives.
No Dr that I know would say that a trans woman is the same as a biological woman. No Biology PhD that I know thinks so either.
 


Men are men. Scientifically. Biologically. Gender. Genus. Type. Women are women. Scientifically. Biologically. Gender. Genus. Type.

You can call yourself whatever you want under any fairy tale pretense you have decided to embrace. It doesnt change scientific reality.

The tragic reality is that if people accepted FACT...that men are men that for whatever reason feel like they should be a woman...but they arent...but they FEEL like it...but they arent...if they ACCEPT that then they can make whatever cosmetic change they want to make to help the carpets better match the drapes...and they wont be disgusted with themselves when they see the facts staring back at them from the mirror. AND it would have the added benefit of not needing others to feed into their delusion in order for them to accept themselves.


Pray tell what exactly does “genus” have to do with this?

You spouted a bunch words you thought would make you sound smart but the inclusion of that one kinda shows just how ignorant you are on the topic.
 
Back
Top Bottom