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why havent individual states implemented universial healthcare

Red_Dave

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according to alot of people on here universial healthcare is quite a popular idea in the U.S. If this is so then why havent any of the more liberal states implemented it? To me it seams a daft idea to wait for the federal government to implement it as it would be ineffient if ran centrally.
 

barefootguy

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We have a few gubenatorial candidates here in Minnesota that propose to do just that if elected. The problem is that if one state establishes universal health care, what is to stop people from nearby states from flocking to the state with universal healthcare? Residency requirements would work, I suppose. Another plan, supported by MN gubenatorial candidate Steve Kelley, is to require that everyone have health insurance, and have the government pay for those unable to afford it. The Minnesota Medical Assosication has actually endorsed this plan. I think the time for single payer universal health care has definitely come, the high cost of health care is a job killer. The public wants it, and the majority of business owners (at least here in MN) want it.
 

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Red_Dave said:
according to alot of people on here universial healthcare is quite a popular idea in the U.S. If this is so then why havent any of the more liberal states implemented it? To me it seams a daft idea to wait for the federal government to implement it as it would be ineffient if ran centrally.
It's quite popular with people who don't work and want someone else to get up in the morning and go out and earn the money it takes to support them. Us hardworking stiffs want nothing to do with and especially don't want government running our health care.
 

jamesrage

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Red_Dave said:
according to alot of people on here universial healthcare is quite a popular idea in the U.S. If this is so then why havent any of the more liberal states implemented it?

Why it has not been implemented?

This is a fantasy
 

Red_Dave

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Stinger said:
It's quite popular with people who don't work and want someone else to get up in the morning and go out and earn the money it takes to support them. Us hardworking stiffs want nothing to do with and especially don't want government running our health care.
That would work if you lived in a society where there was perfect social mobility and social justice.
 

Red_Dave

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jamesrage said:
Why it has not been implemented?

This is a fantasy
the rest of the first world manages to afford it
 

jamesrage

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Red_Dave said:
the rest of the first world manages to afford it
Americans like keeping the moeny they earn.
 

barefootguy

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Stinger said:
Us hardworking stiffs want nothing to do with and especially don't want government running our health care.
I agree 100%. Nobody that I know of is proposing a government run healthcare system, just government funded. It would still be privately owned and operated as it is today. Another issue I failed to bring up in my previous post is that people w/o insurance are costing us a lot of money by going to the emergency room for a cold. If they had insurance, they'd be able to go to a regular clinic for a lot less money. It would actually be cheaper for us to insure 100% of the population than it is to insure 85% as we are now.
 

Blue Collar Joe

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barefootguy said:
I agree 100%. Nobody that I know of is proposing a government run healthcare system, just government funded. It would still be privately owned and operated as it is today. Another issue I failed to bring up in my previous post is that people w/o insurance are costing us a lot of money by going to the emergency room for a cold. If they had insurance, they'd be able to go to a regular clinic for a lot less money. It would actually be cheaper for us to insure 100% of the population than it is to insure 85% as we are now.
Government funded is political speak for higher taxes. The government doesn't pay for anything. We pay for all their brilliance. And government run health care doesn't work. Tennessee tried that. They are still sinking fast in that hole, and have no way out in sight.
Georgia has Peach Care. The first two years of a childs life, free health care. After that, $10.00 per month. And most of those on welfare are on medicaide as well. They sneeze, off to the ER they go.
It doesn't save money. It costs money. Why? Because a lot of them are too lazy to get a job, but they can drag their lazy butts to the ER for a sniffle and then act like they are the most important person alive.
 

jamesrage

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barefootguy said:
Nobody that I know of is proposing a government run healthcare system, just government funded.

Where do you think the government get the money from?It doesn't grow on tree like in that picture I posted.
 

Kandahar

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barefootguy said:
I agree 100%. Nobody that I know of is proposing a government run healthcare system, just government funded. It would still be privately owned and operated as it is today.
Government funds require government regulations, to ensure some safeguards against fraud. Therefore it's government-run.

barefootguy said:
Another issue I failed to bring up in my previous post is that people w/o insurance are costing us a lot of money by going to the emergency room for a cold. If they had insurance, they'd be able to go to a regular clinic for a lot less money.
That'd still be a lot more money than it would cost to simply not allow non-paying patients go to the ER for a cold...

barefootguy said:
It would actually be cheaper for us to insure 100% of the population than it is to insure 85% as we are now.
There's no evidence to back that assertion up.
 

Stinger

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barefootguy said:
I agree 100%. Nobody that I know of is proposing a government run healthcare system, just government funded.
If govenment funds it it will run it.

It would still be privately owned and operated as it is today.
Not if government funds it, it will make the rules.

Another issue I failed to bring up in my previous post is that people w/o insurance are costing us a lot of money by going to the emergency room for a cold.
And will cost a lot of money no matter what if government agrees to take money from people who work and give it to them. And the more it does it the more people there will be demanding government take from others to give to them.


If they had insurance, they'd be able to go to a regular clinic for a lot less money. It would actually be cheaper for us to insure 100% of the population than it is to insure 85% as we are now.
There is nothing to prove that, it would be cheaper if everyone were responsible for their own needs.
 

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As a friend of mine has said, if you want to see how to make something run efficiently, get a successful business man to run it.
If you want to create a fiasco that is perpetually losing money, get the government to run it.
 

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Red_Dave said:
according to alot of people on here universial healthcare is quite a popular idea in the U.S. If this is so then why havent any of the more liberal states implemented it? To me it seams a daft idea to wait for the federal government to implement it as it would be ineffient if ran centrally.

I don't know who these "alot of people" are. I don't know anyone personally that wants Universal Healthcare. But I am not paying for your healthcare. I don't want universal healthcare, and I damm sure don't want it being controlled by the state. End up waiting for months to get an appointment with a doctor, and or specialist.... Na ... i'll muddle through
 

nkgupta80

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Calm2Chaos said:
I don't know who these "alot of people" are. I don't know anyone personally that wants Universal Healthcare. But I am not paying for your healthcare. I don't want universal healthcare, and I damm sure don't want it being controlled by the state. End up waiting for months to get an appointment with a doctor, and or specialist.... Na ... i'll muddle through
either way, we gotta fix up our system. Its being fked pretty bad by malpractice suits, insurance companies, doctor's hiking up prices, lobbyists, etc. We actually tend to pay more than people with universal healthcare (doctor fees, insurance, etc. all add up to be at times more than the taxes payed in other countries).

Maybe bioinformatics will help fix the problem. Get computers to diagnose. Get rid of all those doctors who just sit their, get your weight checked, and give prescriptions without really doing any relaly diagnositic work.

That way, all we have left are the innovative doctors, the nurses, and the surgeons.
 

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it really does astonish me that a country that sees itself so progressive and modern doesn't have any type of universal healthcare. In the UK we have had the National Health Service for fifty odd years and it has served as fantastically. There were dire predictions about people going to the doctor or a+e (ER) for just a cold all the time but those didn't materalise. the general state of welfare provision in the UK is excellant. I don't want to paint a rose-tinted picture about it, sure we have some problems but the NHS is something that i think ever country should adopt. I just don't see the arguments against it as credible.

Just on another note how much of a social welfare scheme is there in the US i.e. benefits system, council houses etc?
 
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Kandahar

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Willoughby said:
it really does astonish me that a country that sees itself so progressive and modern doesn't have any type of universal healthcare.
And it astonishes me that so many people have come to associate socialism and inefficient government bureaucracy with being "progressive and modern."

Willoughby said:
In the UK we have had the National Health Service for fifty odd years and it has served as fantastically. There were dire predictions about people going to the doctor or a+e (ER) for just a cold all the time but those didn't materalise. the general state of welfare provision in the UK is excellant. I don't want to paint a rose-tinted picture about it, sure we have some problems but the NHS is something that i think ever country should adopt. I just don't see the arguments against it as credible.

Just on another note how much of a social welfare scheme is there in the US i.e. benefits system, council houses etc?
British health care is hardly "fantastic." It's simply not as bad as other countries with universal health care. And even this is not BECAUSE it is socialized, but DESPITE it. The fact that British health care isn't a complete disaster compared to American health care, is explainable by the facts that Britons simply live healthier lifestyles than Americans do, and Britons don't routinely sue their doctors for even the slightest error.
 

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What a strange view you have of the outside world!

And it astonishes me that so many people have come to associate socialism and inefficient government bureaucracy with being "progressive and modern."
The NHS isn't socialist...you would know that if you knew how it works

btw if we are dealing with issues of semantics..the generally agreed opposite of socialism is conservatism and the opposite of conservatism is progressionism

And even this is not BECAUSE it is socialized, but DESPITE it. The fact that British health care isn't a complete disaster compared to American health care, is explainable by the facts that Britons simply live healthier lifestyles than Americans do, and Britons don't routinely sue their doctors for even the slightest error.
you say it like the british people are pictures of health! we have the highest levels of obesity in europe and yet our system performs better than other european countries with no universal healthcare but with healthier populations...strange that!
 

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When universal healthcare is implemented, only idiots will practice medicine. Anyone with a brain will be doing something else. .
 

Willoughby

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When universal healthcare is implemented, only idiots will practice medicine. Anyone with a brain will be doing something else. .
hasn't happened over here
 

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Willoughby said:
it really does astonish me that a country that sees itself so progressive and modern doesn't have any type of universal healthcare. In the UK we have had the National Health Service for fifty odd years and it has served as fantastically. There were dire predictions about people going to the doctor or a+e (ER) for just a cold all the time but those didn't materalise. the general state of welfare provision in the UK is excellant. I don't want to paint a rose-tinted picture about it, sure we have some problems but the NHS is something that i think ever country should adopt. I just don't see the arguments against it as credible.

Just on another note how much of a social welfare scheme is there in the US i.e. benefits system, council houses etc?
And how many people does your UH system cover in the UK?

Theres a reason we don't have UH..... We don't want it. !!!!
 

Willoughby

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And how many people does your UH system cover in the UK?
every single person and its cheaper than your system
 

Calm2Chaos

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Willoughby said:
every single person and its cheaper than your system

If your capable of answering the question then great.. If you aren't then shut your pie hole.

Cheaper and beter rarely go hand in hand...LOL

I will answer the question. 60,000,000. So your going to compare a system that isn't a whole lot bigger then canadas which has a god deal of problems to something that is to handle 290,000,000 people..... And you think comparing a system that is almost 5 times the size in a capitalist country is fair or even feasable.
 

Calm2Chaos

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Willoughby said:
every single person and its cheaper than your system
What percent in taxes do you pay in the UK? I thought it was up around 46%... Is that close?
 

Willoughby

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the general tax situation is of no relavence. the money for the nhs comes straight out of the national insurance so the other taxes are not important
 
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