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Why has Marxism never worked?

If the soviet Union had not industrialized at the pace it had it would've been conquered by Germany. Both Germany and the Soviet Union with government directed economic targets expanded likely faster than any economies on earth had ever before. I don't recall figures, certainly faster than any plain free market has ever expanded.

And of course the Billions in American Lend-Lease equipment , arms & ammo had absolutly nothing to do with it. ;)
 
I have been laid off 4 times (all under democratic administrations by the way) & my family has not starved yet. Yes, it is a pain in the rear but it is not the end of the word. It is a small price to pay for not having to be told how much my family gets & deserves by some government bureaucrat. When I go back to work after a layoff I am thankful that I can chose which job to accept & negotiate what the compensation will be, as opposed to being told where to work & how much I will be paid whether I like it or not.
Most people are trapped in their job and a lot do go without meals and healthcare. I'm not saying this is always the cases but there are too many instances where it is.

Define legitimate. Studies are like statistics, & can be manipulated. I who you define as a legitimate source.
Great? If it is so great why have so many people risked their lives to escape "Marxist" countries? Why did the Soviet Union feel the need to use fence's & machine guns on their borders to keep people in, not out?
Why do Chinese workers risk their lives in cargo containers owned my criminal Chinese gangs to get to the US & Canada when their government will not grant them exit visa's to leave?
China is a Capitalistic country. Only the rich who had acres and acres of land wanted to flee Russia because they wanted an oppurtonity to exploit and be greedy and rich. The majority did not want to leave because they were guarnteed their right to live.
 
By "worked" I mean provided a standard of living on par with capitalist countries. Maybe it's because if several people use the same vehicle, no one takes care of it. Maybe it's being locked behind walls on penalty of death if you try to escape. Maybe it's not having a legal system to handle grievances. China didn't get a legal system started until 1979, three years after Mao finally died. Russia dreaded the coming of the Olympics for fear of who was going to defect at the first chance. I thought it was supposed to be a "workers paradise". Ask any East German about it. I worked for a German owned company for twenty-five years and spoke to several. No one had anything good to say. So come on you commie sypathizers. Give me some reasons why anyone would want to live under communism.

Well, since you are using the term "Maxism".. I don't think actual Marxism has been implemented anywhere..
 
Most people are trapped in their job and a lot do go without meals and healthcare. I'm not saying this is always the cases but there are too many instances where it is.
Most of the people who are "trapped" are actually just not uncomfortable enough to leave. After nearly 30 years in three different industries I can tell you most of the stories are very similar.
1. There is only one major employer in town & the do not want to leave their home town, so they feel trapped.
2. They have to many years in & do not want to start over.
3.They do not know how to do anything else, so they feel trapped.
Boo Hoo on all of them. They are trapped by their own fears, inadequacies, or choices, not the system.

As to the health care, according to Dear Leader's own numbers 90% of us were covered before he and his cronies started monkeying around with the system.
When you subtract the 12 million illegals, and another 10 million young people who just do not want to pay for insurance, 2 million who qualify for Medicaid but do not apply for whatever reason, and an average of a couple of million who are uninsured temporarily do to life changes that 30 million uninsured becomes about 4 million or 1.3%. That system seems to work pretty well to me.

China is a Capitalistic country. Only the rich who had acres and acres of land wanted to flee Russia because they wanted an oppurtonity to exploit and be greedy and rich. The majority did not want to leave because they were guarnteed their right to live.
What fairy-tails have you been reading?

Economically there are two Red China's. There are the industrialized coastal cities where a bastardized Crony Capitalism (also known as Fascism) is practiced in order to bring money into the country. Then there is the rest of China, where things still run pretty as they have since Mao died. The country is still communist where the government owns practically everything. The "foreign" factories are owned by the Government & leased, employees & all, to foreign companies. The government also owns all the raw materials, the farms, the housing, the railroads & most of the trucks. The government sets the wages & the prices. That is not capitalism. The people who cannot travel around the country without internal passports & visa's. The people who do not live in the cities are often denied permission to even visit there.

Perhaps in the first few years after the revolution what you said about Russia might have been true.
As the people became educated that changed, especially after WWII. Most of the old landowners died or escaped long before WWII. After the revolution all the land, & everything else belonged to the state. During the 40's & through the 80's most of the escapees were educated professionals, tradesmen, Jews & other oppressed minorities, with enough military & intelligence community defectors to make life interesting.
More escapees came from the outlying republics & client states than from the Russian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic due to simple logistics. Once they were out of Russia, they were still had to cross one or more Soviet "republics" or at least one client state before reaching a border that led to freedom. The primary exceptions were a very cold & inhospitable border with Finland and a cold Pacific crossing to the east.
The desire to leave was real to a lot of folks, as were the razor where & machine guns put in place to prevent it.
I still am waiting for an answer to why they were needed if their system was so great.

People who do not like it here are free to leave, although a statistically small number actually do.

Hmmmm, makes ya wonder, doesn't it?
 
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Most of the people who are "trapped" are actually just not uncomfortable enough to leave. After nearly 30 years in three different industries I can tell you most of the stories are very similar.
1. There is only one major employer in town & the do not want to leave their home town, so they feel trapped.
2. They have to many years in & do not want to start over.
3.They do not know how to do anything else, so they feel trapped.
Boo Hoo on all of them. They are trapped by their own fears, inadequacies, or choices, not the system.
It is the system's fault for making them feel as such... You pretty much said it yourself.

As to the health care, according to Dear Leader's own numbers 90% of us were covered before he and his cronies started monkeying around with the system.
When you subtract the 12 million illegals, and another 10 million young people who just do not want to pay for insurance, 2 million who qualify for Medicaid but do not apply for whatever reason, and an average of a couple of million who are uninsured temporarily do to life changes that 30 million uninsured becomes about 4 million or 1.3%. That system seems to work pretty well to me.
"At least 15.3% of the population is completely uninsured,and a substantial additional portion of the population (35%) is "underinsured", or not able to cover the costs of their medical needs."
According to Wikipedia, whom I trust much more then Obama. So no it doesn't work well.


What fairy-tails have you been reading?

Economically there are two Red China's. There are the industrialized coastal cities where a bastardized Crony Capitalism (also known as Fascism) is practiced in order to bring money into the country. Then there is the rest of China, where things still run pretty as they have since Mao died. The country is still communist where the government owns practically everything. The "foreign" factories are owned by the Government & leased, employees & all, to foreign companies. The government also owns all the raw materials, the farms, the housing, the railroads & most of the trucks. The government sets the wages & the prices. That is not capitalism. The people who cannot travel around the country without internal passports & visa's. The people who do not live in the cities are often denied permission to even visit there.

Perhaps in the first few years after the revolution what you said about Russia might have been true.
As the people became educated that changed, especially after WWII. Most of the old landowners died or escaped long before WWII. After the revolution all the land, & everything else belonged to the state. During the 40's & through the 80's most of the escapees were educated professionals, tradesmen, Jews & other oppressed minorities, with enough military & intelligence community defectors to make life interesting.
More escapees came from the outlying republics & client states than from the Russian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic due to simple logistics. Once they were out of Russia, they were still had to cross one or more Soviet "republics" or at least one client state before reaching a border that led to freedom. The primary exceptions were a very cold & inhospitable border with Finland and a cold Pacific crossing to the east.
The desire to leave was real to a lot of folks, as were the razor where & machine guns put in place to prevent it.
I still am waiting for an answer to why they were needed if their system was so great.

People who do not like it here are free to leave, although a statistically small number actually do.

Hmmmm, makes ya wonder, doesn't it?
No China is a Planned Economy which is a type of Capitalism, more specifically a type of Corporatism. It still is Capitalistic though and in no way Communist. Especially now with there free trade and privatized sectors due to globalization.
 
Because you are saying his idea was wrong, when it has been been put to the test like he said it should. I am not saying that what Marx said is right, but the roads that Russia and China went down are not the roads that Marx described. Also, Marx also critiqued capitalism, most of which he was right about by the way.

Then it's been tested, and it failed. You keep thinking if only the right people ran the test, but it won't happen that way. Get it?
 
Well, since you are using the term "Maxism".. I don't think actual Marxism has been implemented anywhere..

And it never will be, nor can it.
 
Then it's been tested, and it failed. You keep thinking if only the right people ran the test, but it won't happen that way. Get it?
Why are you even HERE? You dont really seem interested in any kind of exchange, just telling everyone they're wrong and calling it a day.
 
Then it's been tested, and it failed. You keep thinking if only the right people ran the test, but it won't happen that way. Get it?

The Autocrats of these nations would not be willing to test actual marxism. Ex: Russia, where most marxists were repressed by bolshevism.
 
It is the system's fault for making them feel as such... You pretty much said it yourself.
No, you totally miss my point. The system is not at fault. People not being willing to take responsibility for their own situation is at fault.
The world is as it is. So are economic realities. A socialist system will not change that.
As an aside, most of the people I've met who felt trapped are the same ones who count on a union to deal with their employers & give them what they want.
The vast majority of people I have worked with do not feel trapped and are as a rule pretty satisfied with their situation.

"At least 15.3% of the population is completely uninsured,and a substantial additional portion of the population (35%) is "underinsured", or not able to cover the costs of their medical needs."
According to Wikipedia, whom I trust much more then Obama. So no it doesn't work well.
I do not trust either Obama or Wikepedia (Wikipedia's numbers are in no way verified for accuracy), but I am sure that Obama & his cronies were doing their best to make the situation look as bad as possible in order to justify the travisty that is the health care law.

No China is a Planned Economy which is a type of Capitalism, more specifically a type of Corporatism. It still is Capitalistic though and in no way Communist. Especially now with there free trade and privatized sectors due to globalization.
You really need to revisit Econ 101.
True capitalism & planned economies are mutually exclusive.
The definition of a fascist economy is one where the means of production are in private hands, with government in control. In the "privatized sectors" the factories are owned by the Government & leased to foreign corporations. These factories can only be used for specific purposes called out in the lease. If the company wants to change what is makes, it must have government permission.
While the ChiCom government does business with capitalists, it is by no means a capitalistic system. One of my previous employers has a factory there. The restrictions placed on them are enormous. The company only puts up with this because that is the price for having access to sell their products there. Their primary customer there is also the ChiCom government, as they (the CHiCom government) own the energy production sector.
The only true capitalism that exists in China is the black market.
 
Then it's been tested, and it failed. You keep thinking if only the right people ran the test, but it won't happen that way. Get it?

No true Marxism has never been tested. You just don't see the difference between true Marxism and the Communist countries we have now. And I don't think if only the right people ran the test, because I don't believe there will ever be the right person. The time when Marx wrote about capitalism and communism the world was a different place. We have more regulations and laws to stop a lot of the injustices Marx saw.
 
No, you totally miss my point. The system is not at fault. People not being willing to take responsibility for their own situation is at fault.
The world is as it is. So are economic realities. A socialist system will not change that.
As an aside, most of the people I've met who felt trapped are the same ones who count on a union to deal with their employers & give them what they want.
The vast majority of people I have worked with do not feel trapped and are as a rule pretty satisfied with their situation.

I do not trust either Obama or Wikepedia (Wikipedia's numbers are in no way verified for accuracy), but I am sure that Obama & his cronies were doing their best to make the situation look as bad as possible in order to justify the travisty that is the health care law.

You really need to revisit Econ 101.
True capitalism & planned economies are mutually exclusive.
The definition of a fascist economy is one where the means of production are in private hands, with government in control. In the "privatized sectors" the factories are owned by the Government & leased to foreign corporations. These factories can only be used for specific purposes called out in the lease. If the company wants to change what is makes, it must have government permission.
While the ChiCom government does business with capitalists, it is by no means a capitalistic system. One of my previous employers has a factory there. The restrictions placed on them are enormous. The company only puts up with this because that is the price for having access to sell their products there. Their primary customer there is also the ChiCom government, as they (the CHiCom government) own the energy production sector.
The only true capitalism that exists in China is the black market.

Fascism is a part of Capitalism. It is just a different political ideology not an economical one.
 
"You don't see..." is right. Does TV kill brain cells like alcohol? No, it doesn't. Does it cause kidney damage or birth defects in infants, along with other physical ailments? No again.

But it's an excellent way to brainwash the masses. How else do you think Fox gets ratings?
 
I would say its because most people have just used it as a vehicle to gain power by siding with the proletariat which makes up the majority of the population, and then once they have overthrown the elite they put in a police state to minimize the chances of a counter revolution since the leaders who used Marxism as something to campaign on pretty much just replace the elites. ( I would say Stalin is a perfect example of this, even though he wasn't one of the main figure heads of the Russia revolution as far as I know ).
 
Fascism is a part of Capitalism. It is just a different political ideology not an economical one.
No, it is not. True Capitalism does not include the government. I realize the Crony capitalism that is developing here falls far short of the mark.
The Chinese system is not even in the same reality.
 
No, it is not. True Capitalism does not include the government. I realize the Crony capitalism that is developing here falls far short of the mark.
The Chinese system is not even in the same reality.

True Capitalism can have a government, you are referring to Anarcho-Capitalism. Which is a joke.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Hoplite, thread-banned. No further posts in this thread by you please.
 
True Capitalism can have a government, you are referring to Anarcho-Capitalism. Which is a joke.
You misunderstand my response. A true Capitalistic economy (which does not exist anywhere on this planet at the moment) will not have government as a component.
It is possible to have true capitalism and a government as the same time. We came very close to that at our founding, but we have strayed badly.

The point of my comment which I did not state very well is that there are lots of Non marxist economies that are not capitalistic either. I was responding to a comment that Fascism is
a form of capitalism, which it is not. It is a bastardized for of socialism.
This is off topic, but it is the direction our economy seems to be turning toward these last couple of years.
 
By "worked" I mean provided a standard of living on par with capitalist countries. Maybe it's because if several people use the same vehicle, no one takes care of it. Maybe it's being locked behind walls on penalty of death if you try to escape. Maybe it's not having a legal system to handle grievances. China didn't get a legal system started until 1979, three years after Mao finally died. Russia dreaded the coming of the Olympics for fear of who was going to defect at the first chance. I thought it was supposed to be a "workers paradise". Ask any East German about it. I worked for a German owned company for twenty-five years and spoke to several. No one had anything good to say. So come on you commie sypathizers. Give me some reasons why anyone would want to live under communism.

Simple answer - greed.
 
Simple answer - greed.


Too simple, and too brief. Is that why someone would want to live under communism, or why communism hasn't produced anything like the prosperity of capitalism? Who is greedy? Expansion on this is necessary for clarity.
 
Too simple, and too brief. Is that why someone would want to live under communism, or why communism hasn't produced anything like the prosperity of capitalism? Who is greedy? Expansion on this is necessary for clarity.

Communism doesn't work because people are inherently greedy - never satisfied with what they already have, always wanting more. Capitalism provides an avenue for improving one's position and at least temporarily satisfying greed, Communism doesn't.
 
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