Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516:1716:2243]

[Master PO]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

Why do you keep bringing up the Bill of Rights preamble when it is not part of the Constitution ?

http://www.purpleheart.org/Americanism/BillOfRights.pdf



It is important to note that the Preamble to the Bill of Rights is presented but no evidence of its ratification is presented. The Amendments themselves were ratified making them part of the Constitution.

Can you show the Preamble was ratified as per the Constitution to become part of the Constitution and have force of law?

The Second Amendment does not contain the words CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW. Again, you make stuff up instead of dealing with the Amendment as it actually is.

the preamble of the BOR in the introduction statement, and explains what the goal of the BOR is, just like the preamble to the body of the constitution itself.

the preamble makes it very clear that the state governments wanted restrictions place on the power of the federal government to make no laws concerning whats in the restrictive clauses.

Madison the author of them, makes them even clearer in his 1800 report.

 

[Master PO]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

Nope; unwritten laws are morals. Laws are codified since the times of Hammurabi.

you really need to do more reading.

unwritten law , is as it says unwritten however it has the power of written law, and positive law or codified law secures it.

to make it plain to you, the USSC recognized the right to privacy and have secured it with positive law

 

[Citizen.Seven]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

Why Gun Nuts Lie ? I Know From Experience
Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

“………I also understand and appreciate our Constitution. I’m fully aware of the 2nd Amendment, and how its authors wanted to prevent government tyranny. Considering what they had gone through, they had every right to demand such a thing.”


There are lots of reasons why people lie. And without question they lie about guns. But to eliminate the author suggests there is no need to lie if following proposal is implemented which will end all the controversy:



“Treat guns like cars.

Mandatory licenses
License renewals
Mandatory training
Mandatory insurance
Operating laws
Operating age limits
Restrict some models
Require safety inspections
Mandatory registration
Background checks
With this, the manufacturers of guns are never held accountable for the actions of people who abuse their products.

Do we have a deal?

Let’s stop acting like there are only 2 sides of this argument. We’re killing each other. Literally.
Please, for the love of logic, stop using outdated ridiculous concepts of tyranny to defend the dying dinosaur that is our 2nd Amendment.
Like it or not, it needs an update”


I think this is a great idea and will go a long way to end the controversy and eliminate the need to lie

SEE:
Why Gun Nuts Lie ? I Know From Experience

Completely unacceptable, and you can see this if you apply the same remedies to the 1A.

 

[Master PO]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

William Rawle, A View of the Constitution of the United States 125--26 1829 (2d ed.)

In the second article, it is declared, that a well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state; a proposition from which few will dissent. Although in actual war, the services of regular troops are confessedly more valuable; yet, while peace prevails, and in the commencement of a war before a regular force can be raised, the militia form the palladium of the country. They are ready to repel invasion, to suppress insurrection, and preserve the good order and peace of government. That they should be well regulated, is judiciously added. A disorderly militia is disgraceful to itself, and dangerous not to the enemy, but to its own country. The duty of the state government is, to adopt such regulations as will tend to make good soldiers with the least interruptions of the ordinary and useful occupations of civil life. In this all the Union has a strong and visible interest.


The corollary, from the first position, is, that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.



The prohibition is general. No clause in the Constitution could by any rule of construction be conceived to give to congress a power to disarm the people. Such a flagitious attempt could only be made under some general pretence by a state legislature. But if in any blind pursuit of inordinate power, either should attempt it, this amendment may be appealed to as a restraint on both.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]William Rawle - G. Washington's DA for the state of P[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]ennsylvania

[/FONT]http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendIIs9.html

"The corollary, from the first position, is, that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".


William Rawle states very clearly that the 2nd amendment has two positions, 1] concerning the militia of a free state and 2] the people themselves bearing arms

 

[Master PO]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

the militia of a state is under no authority from the federal goverment while it is under state authority, once the president asks the state for its use and it is approved by the state then it is called into service and is under federal authority, and article 1 section 8 applies to the militia, (militia act),once the militia returns to state authority, the militia act no longer applies.


one must read the constitution and the militia acts to understand this.

 

[danielpalos]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

"The corollary, from the first position, is, that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".


William Rawle states very clearly that the 2nd amendment has two positions, 1] concerning the militia of a free state and 2] the people themselves bearing arms

What if, you have two classes of Persons keeping and bearing Arms; which of the two classes of Persons may not be Infringed, when keeping and bearing Arms for their State or the Union, not natural rights?

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

the preamble of the BOR in the introduction statement, and explains what the goal of the BOR is, just like the preamble to the body of the constitution itself.

the preamble makes it very clear that the state governments wanted restrictions place on the power of the federal government to make no laws concerning whats in the restrictive clauses.

Madison the author of them, makes them even clearer in his 1800 report.

Do you have any verifiable evidence that the Preamble to the Bill of Rights was ratified by the needed number of states to become an official part of the Constitution?

 

[haymarket]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

yes it does, you need to read more on the 2nd, and don't just read the 2nd

if you did you would find it in two parts, and i already posted proof of that already, and info on the militia

Deal with what the Second says. Not what you wished it had said or tell us what you think it means?

 

[Master PO]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

What if, you have two classes of Persons keeping and bearing Arms; which of the two classes of Persons may not be Infringed, when keeping and bearing Arms for their State or the Union, not natural rights?

1] the federal government can make no law concerning the militia WHILE the militia is under state authority, article 1 section 8 was used to write the militia acts which empowers the federal government over the state militias WHEN they are "called into service of the u.s." only, when a militia returns back to state authority, the federal government has no power over them anymore.

2] the federal government has no authority to make any laws concerning the people bearing arms

 

[Master PO]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

Deal with what the Second says. Not what you wished it had said or tell us what you think it means?

one must read more then the 2nd, they must also read the militia acts.

 

[Master PO]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

Do you have any verifiable evidence that the Preamble to the Bill of Rights was ratified by the needed number of states to become an official part of the Constitution?

the preamble states what the goal of the BOR is about, and its meant to prevent the abuse of federal powers, BY restricting them concerning what is in the clauses.

 

[danielpalos]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

1] the federal government can make no law concerning the militia WHILE the militia is under state authority, article 1 section 8 was used to write the militia acts which empowers the federal government over the state militias WHEN they are "called into service of the u.s." only, when a militia returns back to state authority, the federal government has no power over them anymore.

2] the federal government has no authority to make any laws concerning the people bearing arms

nothing but diversion, master PO?

What if, you have two classes of Persons keeping and bearing Arms; which of the two classes of Persons may not be Infringed, when keeping and bearing Arms for their State or the Union, not natural rights;

Well regulated militia or the unorganized militia?

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

Definition? Which definition are you citing from the Constitution?

Infringe has a constitutional definition set from SCOTUS case law. Don't beg the question, I'm not dropping into your pathetic word traps.

 

[Casper]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

nothing but diversion, master PO?

What if, you have two classes of Persons keeping and bearing Arms; which of the two classes of Persons may not be Infringed, when keeping and bearing Arms for their State or the Union, not natural rights;

Well regulated militia or the unorganized militia?

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Well Regulated. Does not say who regulates them, you want to assume it means by the government which is Not what it says.

 

[danielpalos]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

Well Regulated. Does not say who regulates them, you want to assume it means by the government which is Not what it says.

Yes, it does, in Article 1, Section 8.

 

[Crimefree]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

Our Second Amendment is not about natural rights, but about what is necessary to the security of a free State. It says so, in the Intent and Purpose clause.

Natural rights are recognized and secured in State Constitutions and available via Due Process.

What due process? What section claims this pleading to fallacy?

You false plea to ignorance and fallacy babbling about natural rights is irrelevant. What our rights are or were is of no consequence. The constitution recognises them and no plea to fallacy can change that.

You going to show that pre-existing rights are not affirmed or just claim it in a special appeal to ignorance?

A well regulated militia is necessary to a free state. So that is an "armed population" the people is necessary to keep a state of freedom from interference by government or anyone else? It would be asinine to expect them to do this with pitchforks nor keep the militia safe.

 

[Crimefree]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

Yes, it does, in Article 1, Section 8.

Not so. That is only if the militia is called by congress. Three times you have refused to answer when congress called the militia.

You lost that point by avoidance. Don't use it again as it has been refuted and you have no answer.

 

[Crimefree]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

nothing but diversion, master PO?

What if, you have two classes of Persons keeping and bearing Arms; which of the two classes of Persons may not be Infringed, when keeping and bearing Arms for their State or the Union, not natural rights;

Well regulated militia or the unorganized militia?

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

We only have one class clearly stated in the 2A,"the people". Your point is a special pleading to ignorance.

 

[Crimefree]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

Infringe has a constitutional definition set from SCOTUS case law. Don't beg the question, I'm not dropping into your pathetic word traps.

A dictionary will do far better and has done so on about five or six occasions now. The owner of the Phoenix covers the ashes of his Phoenix in crap then gives it a transfusion of mature urine while uttering a magical incantation. Sim sala bim let lies be truth. All previous shredding of this stupid argument are forgotten as the Phoenix arises flaps its wings covering all nearby in crap and squawks its mantra all over again. Denial is the name of the game and baiting and trolling the purpose. Best to flee before your are covered in crap.

 

[danielpalos]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

We only have one class clearly stated in the 2A,"the people". Your point is a special pleading to ignorance.

There are clearly, two classes of Persons of the People who are the Militia; well regulated or unorganized.

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

Only the fantastical right wing resorts to fallacies of false clues and false Causes.

 

[blackjack50]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

There are clearly, two classes of Persons of the People who are the Militia; well regulated or unorganized.

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

Only the fantastical right wing resorts to fallacies of false clues and false Causes.

Can you quote the second amendment for us?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[danielpalos]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

Can you quote the second amendment for us?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

sure thing. it supports my contention and my argument.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

There are clearly, two classes of Persons of the People who are the Militia; well regulated or unorganized.

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

I simplified it for you, since you are on the right.

 

[Crimefree]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

sure thing. it supports my contention and my argument.

You have yet to show that.

There are clearly, two classes of Persons of the People who are the Militia; well regulated or unorganized.

Not recognised in the constitutions bill of rights and no rights are affirmed as the property of the militia.

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

I simplified it for you, since you are on the right.

Nothing by delusional pleading to ignorance and fallacy.

The right of the people to keep and bear arms is affirmed to only the people and nobody else. I defy you to show when any such right it affirmed to anyone else. Why do you keep omitting to prove your statements?

There I simplified it for you since you are nowhere.

 

[Crimefree]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

There are clearly, two classes of Persons of the People who are the Militia; well regulated or unorganized.

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

Only the fantastical right wing resorts to fallacies of false clues and false Causes.

Utter puppy poop. You have failed to validate your claim. If it were clear I could see it in the clause under discussion. Since I quoted from the bill of rights to prove my point your claim is a pleading to fallacy and ignorance as nowhere is it to be found.

You have claimed this previously and been unable to back up up your plea to fallacy. Therefore this is repetition when you know it has been refuted. Baiting and trolling.

Regurgitating your refuted crap is not debating.

 

[danielpalos]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

You have yet to show that.

Not recognised in the constitutions bill of rights and no rights are affirmed as the property of the militia.

Nothing by delusional pleading to ignorance and fallacy.

The right of the people to keep and bear arms is affirmed to only the people and nobody else. I defy you to show when any such right it affirmed to anyone else. Why do you keep omitting to prove your statements?

There I simplified it for you since you are nowhere.

I show it every time I post, just for fun and practice. I prove it, when the fantastical right wing, has nothing but continuance, diversion, and other forms of fallacies, instead of a valid argument.

Our Second Amendment clearly claims (well regulated) Militia are Necessary to the security of a free State.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed

I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

There are clearly, two classes of Persons of the People who are the Militia; well regulated or unorganized.

If you are not, well regulated, you are unorganized, by definition.