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Why does the right seem to hate conservationists so much?

Donkey1499 said:
Brilliance, sheer brilliance. I couldn't have said it better myself. Finally someone on here with some BRAINS! I give you 60 Kudos!

If he has "BRAINS", then he isn't working his to hard to put out that post. I will do the math for you here:

Current Worldwide Oil Consumption: Approximately 75 Million Barrels per day.

Approximate Date before ANWR would reach full production: 2020

Estimated Worldwide Oil Consumption by 2020: Approximately 100 Million Barrels per day.

Estimated maximum daily oil production for ANWR: Approximately 750,000 Barrels per day.

Otherwise, less than 1% of the worldwide daily consumption. Enough to make some Oil Companies a lot of money, but not enough to make a perceptible dent in oil prices.
 
Now I recycle and all that, but I don't believe in the green peace view at all. I think they are a little overboard and loves trees more than people (alaska drilling for example) and they try to make you a environmetalist at a young age. In fifth grade a teacher made me and the rest of the class write a thank you letter to Jean Carnagan (D-Missouri) for voting against drilling in Alaska. That was against my rights I thought at the time, I was actually political in fifth grade, so I wrote a well "not nice" note to Jean.
 
Na, I'm just kidding. I think we should all drive a hybrid, recycle and do the best we can to stop pollution.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
If he has "BRAINS", then he isn't working his to hard to put out that post. I will do the math for you here:

Current Worldwide Oil Consumption: Approximately 75 Million Barrels per day.

Approximate Date before ANWR would reach full production: 2020

Estimated Worldwide Oil Consumption by 2020: Approximately 100 Million Barrels per day.

Estimated maximum daily oil production for ANWR: Approximately 750,000 Barrels per day.

Otherwise, less than 1% of the worldwide daily consumption. Enough to make some Oil Companies a lot of money, but not enough to make a perceptible dent in oil prices.

But some oil is better than none, isn't it? But like I said in another post a while back; it would be better if we all went back to the horse and buggy. With the size of traffic jams nowadays, you'd move a lot quicker on horseback.

Trains can be run on magnets. More money could be put into Cold Fusion research to hurry it up. Planes could be run on a magnet system as well. Construction and hauling equipment should still be run on gasoline. Even cars could be run on magnets. There are many alternatives to gas.
 
Donkey1499 said:
But some oil is better than none, isn't it? But like I said in another post a while back; it would be better if we all went back to the horse and buggy. With the size of traffic jams nowadays, you'd move a lot quicker on horseback.

Trains can be run on magnets. More money could be put into Cold Fusion research to hurry it up. Planes could be run on a magnet system as well. Construction and hauling equipment should still be run on gasoline. Even cars could be run on magnets. There are many alternatives to gas.

The thing is, when you look at the subsidies and everything offered to oil companies in the bills to open up ANWR, would that money not be better spent on investing in efficiency?
 
Mixed View said:
Now I recycle and all that, but I don't believe in the green peace view at all. I think they are a little overboard and loves trees more than people (alaska drilling for example) and they try to make you a environmetalist at a young age. In fifth grade a teacher made me and the rest of the class write a thank you letter to Jean Carnagan (D-Missouri) for voting against drilling in Alaska. That was against my rights I thought at the time, I was actually political in fifth grade, so I wrote a well "not nice" note to Jean.

How old are you now? That would have been like in 2002 when Jean would have voted against drilling in ANWR. Of course, she also voted against increasing CAFE standards in the same year.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
The thing is, when you look at the subsidies and everything offered to oil companies in the bills to open up ANWR, would that money not be better spent on investing in efficiency?

It would be better spent, but try telling that to the republican oil company owners (>cough< Bush >cough< Cheney >cough<). All they'd do is get their Little Limbaugh Buddy to call you a "looney liberal."
 
The right seem to hate conservationists because they tell all of us what too do when it comes about the enviroment. We should drill in Alaska because we will get off that OPEC stuff.
 
Ace said:
The right seem to hate conservationists because they tell all of us what too do when it comes about the enviroment. We should drill in Alaska because we will get off that OPEC stuff.

And how will a maximum production of 750,000 barrels a day almost 20 years from now do that?
 
Donkey1499 said:
But some oil is better than none, isn't it? But like I said in another post a while back; it would be better if we all went back to the horse and buggy. With the size of traffic jams nowadays, you'd move a lot quicker on horseback.

Trains can be run on magnets. More money could be put into Cold Fusion research to hurry it up. Planes could be run on a magnet system as well. Construction and hauling equipment should still be run on gasoline. Even cars could be run on magnets. There are many alternatives to gas.

Now you're starting to use those 'brains' that I know you have. Think outside the box.

Will we ever become completely independent of fossil fuel? I don't know, but I'm sure it won't be in our lifetime. Instead of the status quo, drill, drill, drill, refine, refine, refine, we should be directing our energies (no pun intended) to wean ourselves of our dependency on oil. Are the alternatives expensive? Sure they are, but when will they become cost effective? When gasoline hits $6.00, $8.00 a gallon. If we wait until that happens, we're already way behind. Like some have said before, there are so many other commonly used products that are derived from oil. The cost of those items have to increase. It won't stop until we find another way.

I've read of people blaming past administrations for not doing anything. Well there was a 'now' during all of their terms and they did nothing. This present date is our 'now'. Will future generations say that we did nothing. You all know the old adage 'You got to start somewhere'.

It won't happen overnight and no one should expect it to. We've read all the reports that say drilling in new areas and building new refinerys will take many, many years. So will the pursuit of our independence of oil.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
And how will a maximum production of 750,000 barrels a day almost 20 years from now do that?

I think both sides are missing the mark here...

The whole point of drilling in ANWR is not to remove our independence from oil but lessen it.

Conserv. Argument: It's a ton of oil, it will get us off dependence!!

Reality: No, it wont, it will simply lessen our dependence. Real alternatives have to be found.

Lib. Argument: It's going to produce less than 1% of the worldwide need, and only 750,000 barrels a day! It's useless.

Reality: That's huge. Increasing world supply by 1% will drastically affect the market, and 750,000 barrels a day (ANWR.org says over a million)? Considering that oil will likely cost in the range of $100 a barrel by then, that's $75 million dollars A DAY worth of oil. You don't think that's worth drilling for?

The total reserves in ANWR are 6.4 billion barrels of oil. At $100 a barrel, that's 640 BILLION DOLLARS.

Tell me that doesn't matter, and that there's nothing to be gained out of drilling.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
First, when I say mainstream conservationist groups, I don’t mean Greenpeace. As to your hypocrisy argument. I contribute to the Natural Resources Defense Council.

I recycle.

I compost.

I garden as organically as possible and try to use nothing but natural insecticides and fungicides like Neem oil.

I currently live in the Kansas City metro. Bluegrass is the most common lawn grass variety here but my lawn is a turf type fescue one which requires less water and fertilizer than a bluegrass lawn requires. I also avoid using any insecticides on my lawn and fertilize as minimally as possible and when I do, I fertilize with natural fertilizers when possible.

My wife drives a Subaru Forester. I drive a Sportage. Both vehicles are far more efficient than larger SUVs. We have them because I really enjoy fishing, canoeing, backpacking, hiking, and anything else that gets and my 5 year old son outside and I need something to haul my canoe around with. I am a big guy, I stand 6,2, a larger SUV would be nice, but for ethical reasons, we drive we drive the most efficient vehicles that meet our needs.

We carpool whenever possible.

Right now I am painting my house, I am using a latex based primer because instead of an oil based primer because it’s better on the environment.

When I go fishing I always bring a trash bag with me and pick up the trash that careless people leave.

When I take my son canoeing and on backpacking trips, we practice leave no trace and try to leave everything just as we found it.

I can go on. Most people that I know that do care about the environment and who do contribute to conservation organizations do the same things I do and more to minimalize their impact on the environment.

I applaud you for your efforts to minimize the impact you and your
family(?) have on the eco-system. That's great.

Please don't take my rant wrong. My wife makes me recycle and we
re-use as much plastic as long as possible before putting it in the
recycle bin. Same goes for glass jars, paper, etc.

My rant was aimed at the hypocrites that lead these groups. I do hold
a belief that these groups were started with the best of intentions, that is,
minimize the human impact on earth's natural balance of resources.
Unfortunately many of them would have you believe not a single plant
or animal went the way of the do-do bird until man came along.

I used to be a hunter. Why did I quit? Purely economics. I have always
held that the only animal life that should be taken is one that will be
consumed. Trophy hunting should be outlawed. Just like fishing for
swordfish and marlin should be outlawed. These people don't eat the
fish, they stuff it and hang it on a wall somewhere.

Anyway, I'm getting off track. No harm intended in my post. I hope you
didn't take it that way. I hope you did some research on the methods
and tactics of the NRDC before you handed over your hard earned money.
 
RightatNYU said:
I think both sides are missing the mark here...

The whole point of drilling in ANWR is not to remove our independence from oil but lessen it.

Conserv. Argument: It's a ton of oil, it will get us off dependence!!

Reality: No, it wont, it will simply lessen our dependence. Real alternatives have to be found.

Lib. Argument: It's going to produce less than 1% of the worldwide need, and only 750,000 barrels a day! It's useless.

Reality: That's huge. Increasing world supply by 1% will drastically affect the market, and 750,000 barrels a day (ANWR.org says over a million)? Considering that oil will likely cost in the range of $100 a barrel by then, that's $75 million dollars A DAY worth of oil. You don't think that's worth drilling for?

The total reserves in ANWR are 6.4 billion barrels of oil. At $100 a barrel, that's 640 BILLION DOLLARS.

Tell me that doesn't matter, and that there's nothing to be gained out of drilling.

Just because the maximum production will be potentially 750,000 barrels a day does not mean that production ever will be 750,000 a day. Domestic oil companies have no less of a profit motive than OPEC does. If increasing supply results in lower cost per barrel, they will simply reduce production accordingly. Moreover, the U.S. Geological Survey estimates that only 2 billion barrels of oil are economically practical to recover from ANWR when oil prices are relatively low. With high oil prices, about 4.3 billion barrels are economically practical to recover. Just the same, if they allowed the oil companies in there today, it would still be 15 to 20 years before that oil started hitting the market. There is no doubt that this would be a financial windfall for domestic oil companies, but the numbers simply do not add up to this significantly reducing our dependence on foreign oil. The necessary infrastructure to bring that oil to market when you include the necessary permanent roads, air strips, port facilities, and other industrial facilities, would have total foot print of approximately 200,000 acres. Do to environmental oversight and regulation, oil extraction is certainly much cleaner than ever before, yet there are still no guarantees that there would not be a spill.

Now, this has to be weighed against the ethics for preservation of ANWR. The 1.5 million acre coastal plain that advocates for drilling are proposing that we open up represents the last 5% of the Alaskan North Slope not already opened to oil exploration. The coastal plain of the refuge is home to a wide variety of animals. The presence of caribou, polar bears, grizzly bears, wolves, migratory birds, and many other species in a nearly undisturbed state has led some to call the area "America's Serengeti." The Refuge and two neighboring parks in Canada have been proposed for an international park, and several species found in the area (including polar bears, caribou, migratory birds, and whales) are protected by international treaties or agreements. The Arctic Refuge is the only conservation system unit that protects, in an undisturbed condition, a complete spectrum of the arctic ecosystems in North America. Moreover, the coastal plain is the most biologically productive part of the Arctic Refuge for wildlife and is the center of wildlife activity.

If the President and Congress were proposing an “Apollo” type program for energy independence with significant across the board increases in CAFÉ Standards, across the board mandates for increased energy efficiency for appliances and businesses, instead of multi billion dollar subsides to oil companies huge investments in alternative energy, investments in nuclear energy, and other smart growth – sustainable development initiatives, then as part of that overall package, I think that it would be reasonable to open up ANWR as part of that overall initiative. However that is not what is happening, since 1994, Republicans have allowed the oil and coal industry lobbyists to literally author any energy legislation. Until the Republicans recognize that conservation has to be the biggest part of any energy bill and Democrats recognize that no energy bill will be effective without nuclear energy being a part of it, then the line has to be drawn somewhere and ANWR is where we ought to draw it.
 
But really, the time and money that it would take for ANWR could be better spent for some kind of alternative combustion research. Like building a car that runs CLEANLY off of french fry grease. (I know it's already been done, but they could make a more compact model.) The only problem with the french fry grease thing is that McDonald's and Burger King would become monopolies not only in fast food, but fuel as well.

Or there's always horses, oxes, and donkies (LOL).
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Just because the maximum production will be potentially 750,000 barrels a day does not mean that production ever will be 750,000 a day. Domestic oil companies have no less of a profit motive than OPEC does. If increasing supply results in lower cost per barrel, they will simply reduce production accordingly. Moreover, the U.S. Geological Survey estimates that only 2 billion barrels of oil are economically practical to recover from ANWR when oil prices are relatively low. With high oil prices, about 4.3 billion barrels are economically practical to recover. Just the same, if they allowed the oil companies in there today, it would still be 15 to 20 years before that oil started hitting the market. There is no doubt that this would be a financial windfall for domestic oil companies, but the numbers simply do not add up to this significantly reducing our dependence on foreign oil. The necessary infrastructure to bring that oil to market when you include the necessary permanent roads, air strips, port facilities, and other industrial facilities, would have total foot print of approximately 200,000 acres. Do to environmental oversight and regulation, oil extraction is certainly much cleaner than ever before, yet there are still no guarantees that there would not be a spill.

Now, this has to be weighed against the ethics for preservation of ANWR. The 1.5 million acre coastal plain that advocates for drilling are proposing that we open up represents the last 5% of the Alaskan North Slope not already opened to oil exploration. The coastal plain of the refuge is home to a wide variety of animals. The presence of caribou, polar bears, grizzly bears, wolves, migratory birds, and many other species in a nearly undisturbed state has led some to call the area "America's Serengeti." The Refuge and two neighboring parks in Canada have been proposed for an international park, and several species found in the area (including polar bears, caribou, migratory birds, and whales) are protected by international treaties or agreements. The Arctic Refuge is the only conservation system unit that protects, in an undisturbed condition, a complete spectrum of the arctic ecosystems in North America. Moreover, the coastal plain is the most biologically productive part of the Arctic Refuge for wildlife and is the center of wildlife activity.

If the President and Congress were proposing an “Apollo” type program for energy independence with significant across the board increases in CAFÉ Standards, across the board mandates for increased energy efficiency for appliances and businesses, instead of multi billion dollar subsides to oil companies huge investments in alternative energy, investments in nuclear energy, and other smart growth – sustainable development initiatives, then as part of that overall package, I think that it would be reasonable to open up ANWR as part of that overall initiative. However that is not what is happening, since 1994, Republicans have allowed the oil and coal industry lobbyists to literally author any energy legislation. Until the Republicans recognize that conservation has to be the biggest part of any energy bill and Democrats recognize that no energy bill will be effective without nuclear energy being a part of it, then the line has to be drawn somewhere and ANWR is where we ought to draw it.


I hear so many arguments against drilling that imply that it would only be a boon for the oil companies.

First off, even if that were the case, would that be bad? The oil companies, as much of a big bad boogieman people like to make them out to be, employ millions of Americans, and if they have profits, those go into our economy and its stockholders.

Secondly, just because the price of oil goes down doesnt mean they lose money.

Example. Say the market price for oil companies to buy oil is 50 a gallon, and they sell it for 60 a gallon. Say the market price for oil companies to buy drops to 40, the oil companies will be forced to sell it for 50, due to competition. Profits are relatively stable, no matter how high or low oil prices are, so the average consumer would feel the majority of the impact of lowered oil prices.
 
RightatNYU said:
I hear so many arguments against drilling that imply that it would only be a boon for the oil companies.

First off, even if that were the case, would that be bad? The oil companies, as much of a big bad boogieman people like to make them out to be, employ millions of Americans, and if they have profits, those go into our economy and its stockholders.

Secondly, just because the price of oil goes down doesnt mean they lose money.

Example. Say the market price for oil companies to buy oil is 50 a gallon, and they sell it for 60 a gallon. Say the market price for oil companies to buy drops to 40, the oil companies will be forced to sell it for 50, due to competition. Profits are relatively stable, no matter how high or low oil prices are, so the average consumer would feel the majority of the impact of lowered oil prices.

Oil companies base production on predicted demand. That is why an increase of 1% of available daily production would have little effect on actual oil prices. Oil prices are not as important for an oil companies profit margins as demand relative to supply is. The only way for this to be the case would be that OPEC at some point before ANWR reserves hit full production capacity hit peak production and were on the downside of Hubbert’s Curve. A lot of people right now are accusing oil companies right now like Exxon of gauging American consumers. Their evidence for this is the Exxon right now is the most profitable company in the history of civilization. However, the reason why Exxon is so profitable is not because they are gouging consumers, but rather it is because of the huge increase in worldwide demand stemming from economic growth in nations like China and India.

It is not a bad thing for oil companies to make money. It certainly adds to our GDP. Opening up ANWR would mean thousands of jobs for Alaskans and those who wanted go to up there for the work. However, this has to be balanced against the conservation ethics of preserving untouched public lands in a pristine state for future generations. If we placed industry profits as the primary concern for managing public lands, it would not be long before we would not have any pristine public lands left.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Their evidence for this is the Exxon right now is the most profitable company in the history of civilization.

Absolutely untrue. Prove it.

It is not a bad thing for oil companies to make money. It certainly adds to our GDP. Opening up ANWR would mean thousands of jobs for Alaskans and those who wanted go to up there for the work. However, this has to be balanced against the conservation ethics of preserving untouched public lands in a pristine state for future generations. If we placed industry profits as the primary concern for managing public lands, it would not be long before we would not have any pristine public lands left.

Alaska is HALF THE SIZE OF THE US. It's MASSIVE. If we drilled in Texas, would that ruin the pristine wilderness in Montana? NO!
 
RightatNYU said:
Absolutely untrue. Prove it.



Alaska is HALF THE SIZE OF THE US. It's MASSIVE. If we drilled in Texas, would that ruin the pristine wilderness in Montana? NO!
"Exxon's the biggest oil company in the world, it's the most profitable company in the world," says investment analyst Doug Cogan. "They're extremely good at what they do, which is finding oil and gas."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/24/eveningnews/main608520.shtml

If you will notice from my post, I said that I do not believe that Exxon is gouging consumers, but rather their profits are the result of a huge increase in demand in the world markets for oil.

Your analogy is flawed. ANWR is a pristine wilderness. It is referred to by biologists as America's Serengeti. The coastal plain that would be opened for drilling is about 1.5 million acres in size. Total infrastructure to support oil production would impact approximately 200,000 acres. Drilling there would not ruin pristine wilderness in say Denali, but it would forever ruin pristine wilderness in ANWR. It is really a matter of how much value one puts on pristine wilderness. Conservation is an important issue to me so I put a lot of value in having places set aside and largely untouched. Especially when one considers how rare pristine and untouched wilderness is in our modern world. The polls for the last 20 years show that a majority of Americans agree with my position.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
"Exxon's the biggest oil company in the world, it's the most profitable company in the world," says investment analyst Doug Cogan. "They're extremely good at what they do, which is finding oil and gas."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/24/eveningnews/main608520.shtml

If you will notice from my post, I said that I do not believe that Exxon is gouging consumers, but rather their profits are the result of a huge increase in demand in the world markets for oil.

Your analogy is flawed. ANWR is a pristine wilderness. It is referred to by biologists as America's Serengeti. The coastal plain that would be opened for drilling is about 1.5 million acres in size. Total infrastructure to support oil production would impact approximately 200,000 acres. Drilling there would not ruin pristine wilderness in say Denali, but it would forever ruin pristine wilderness in ANWR. It is really a matter of how much value one puts on pristine wilderness. Conservation is an important issue to me so I put a lot of value in having places set aside and largely untouched. Especially when one considers how rare pristine and untouched wilderness is in our modern world. The polls for the last 20 years show that a majority of Americans agree with my position.

http://www.anwr.org/topten.htm

1. Only 8% of ANWR Would Be Considered for Exploration Only the 1.5 million acre or 8% on the northern coast of ANWR is being considered for development. The remaining 17.5 million acres or 92% of ANWR will remain permanently closed to any kind of development. If oil is discovered, less than 2000 acres of the over 1.5 million acres of the Coastal Plain would be affected. That¹s less than half of one percent of ANWR that would be affected by production activity.

3. Jobs To Be Created Between 250,000 and 735,000 ANWR jobs are estimated to be created by development of the Coastal Plain.

I love pristine wilderness as much as anyone else, but 600 billion dollars and 700,000 jobs is more than a fair trade for .5% of a completely empty frozen tundra.
 
jallman said:
ANWR is a speck on the map and the abundance of resources it potentially houses are worth the cost. There is nothing that lives in the area that they want to drill. And yes, wildlife does congregate near the pipeline and no, there is no adverse effect of the pipeline that I can see...barring a break and spill, but we have protections in place in case that happens. I say open ANWR...more money for Alaska.


Alaska was awarded a 250 million dollar bridge. How much more money do they need? :rofl
 
RightatNYU said:
http://www.anwr.org/topten.htm

1. Only 8% of ANWR Would Be Considered for Exploration Only the 1.5 million acre or 8% on the northern coast of ANWR is being considered for development. The remaining 17.5 million acres or 92% of ANWR will remain permanently closed to any kind of development. If oil is discovered, less than 2000 acres of the over 1.5 million acres of the Coastal Plain would be affected. That¹s less than half of one percent of ANWR that would be affected by production activity.

3. Jobs To Be Created Between 250,000 and 735,000 ANWR jobs are estimated to be created by development of the Coastal Plain.

I love pristine wilderness as much as anyone else, but 600 billion dollars and 700,000 jobs is more than a fair trade for .5% of a completely empty frozen tundra.

Yes, let's bring more factory and automobile pollution to one of Alaska's last untouched areas. Smart idea. :roll:
 
Donkey1499 said:
Yes, let's bring more factory and automobile pollution to one of Alaska's last untouched areas. Smart idea. :roll:

Do you have any idea how big alaska is? How small ANWR is?

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That green area in the Northeast portion of alaska is ANWR.

They are proposing opening EIGHT PERCENT of that tiny little green thing to exploration. Then, even if oil is found, ONLY 0.5% of that area would actually be developed. That leaves, oh, I dunno, an area roughly the size of the MIDWEST untouched in Alaska.

But, honestly, it's more important for people who know nothing of Alaska and the emptiness out there to feel that vague feeling of doing something "good for the environment" than it is to provide 700,000 jobs and $600,000,000,000 worth of oil for America.

For all the people who lament the loss of the "untouched wilderness" of America, I encourage you to leave your cities and suburbs and visit any one of the millions upon millions of acres of empty land all over the US.
 
RightatNYU said:
Do you have any idea how big alaska is? How small ANWR is?

usa.gif


That green area in the Northeast portion of alaska is ANWR.

They are proposing opening EIGHT PERCENT of that tiny little green thing to exploration. Then, even if oil is found, ONLY 0.5% of that area would actually be developed. That leaves, oh, I dunno, an area roughly the size of the MIDWEST untouched in Alaska.

But, honestly, it's more important for people who know nothing of Alaska and the emptiness out there to feel that vague feeling of doing something "good for the environment" than it is to provide 700,000 jobs and $600,000,000,000 worth of oil for America.

For all the people who lament the loss of the "untouched wilderness" of America, I encourage you to leave your cities and suburbs and visit any one of the millions upon millions of acres of empty land all over the US.

I don't blame you, cuz you wouldn't have known this; but I've been to Alaska AND I have family that lives there. So I know more about Alaska than you would've thought.

And with the arctic winds, all of the pollution that the trucks and factories would create would be carried throughout the region. And I don't care about the jobs that would be created or the amount of oil that we would get (which would take 15-20 years to actually get). So, it would be useless.

Instead of spending money on drilling, why don't the big oil companies find a way to produce a cleaner alternative to oil? That would create jobs as well.

And when you're done with ANWR, what are ya gonna do with all of the equipment? Leave it there to rust and create more damage to the environment?
 
Donkey1499 said:
I don't blame you, cuz you wouldn't have known this; but I've been to Alaska AND I have family that lives there. So I know more about Alaska than you would've thought.

Then I'm even more surprised you don't support it, the vast majority of Alaskans do.

And with the arctic winds, all of the pollution that the trucks and factories would create would be carried throughout the region. And I don't care about the jobs that would be created or the amount of oil that we would get (which would take 15-20 years to actually get). So, it would be useless.

The pollution would be carried throughout the region? Are you serious? The actual area where the drilling itself would be done is 2000 acres, .5% of the tiny little green area. Look at that map I put forth again, superimposed on the states. Do the car factories in Detroit pollute Houston? Does the oil drilling in Texas ruin the wilderness of Montana? No. And you might not care about the jobs, but 750,000 kids who are 15 years old right now are most likely going to care about the jobs. And as a side note, why WOULDN'T you care? It benefits our entire economy when jobs are created, and the tax receipts from ANWR would benefit the country as a whole.

Instead of spending money on drilling, why don't the big oil companies find a way to produce a cleaner alternative to oil? That would create jobs as well.

It's less cost effective. Where do you get the idea that you're allowed to tell businesses what they can and can't do with their research? How about you go to Merck and GlaxoSmithKline and tell them to stop researching treatments for the things you don't think are important, and to focus on the diseases you deem important.

And when you're done with ANWR, what are ya gonna do with all of the equipment? Leave it there to rust and create more damage to the environment?

Rust damages the environment? Wanna tell me how Fe2O3 does that?
 
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