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Why does America need Europe?

bennyhill

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As world cop america gets criticized for its unilateralism. So they need the EU in order to bet some world legitimacy. Militarily, they dont need Europe they could go it alone, but the need Europe politically, in order to deflect some criticism that there behaving like Mr. jeckel. The worst part is that the EU gets sucked into these phony wars because their all NATO members and in world politics everything is complicated and hangs with everything together.

I favor abolishing NATO or kicking America out of it and giving it a new name like European Arm Forces 2001.
 

Civil1z@tion

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America needs Europeans for some legitimacy, but Europe needs the US to be its enforcer. Just look at the disaster that was the European response to the Balkans Wars in the 90s. Things only got settled when Europe gave up and needed the US to come in. Europe's militaries can't even handle significant missions on their own at their own doorstep. But by being the US's ally, they still get to criticize the US all they want with no consequences, they get to choose which wars they want to go into and how long to stay in them, and they get to have lower military budgets because the US does the big spending for them. This is a no-lose situation for Europe. If anyone should be questioning whether the alliance is worth it, that party should be the US (I think it is because for all our differences, we're all Westerners, we're all liberal democracies, and we're all supporters of some level of market economies and social welfare, I don't think we should let disputes which can happen between any nations divide us anymore than the EU member states let their differences divide them).
 

bennyhill

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America and Europe have the same values, history, and destiny. We are not anti-american just because we demand to be independent and solve our own problems. I fear that most europeans have become lazy, because we dont have to pay for Americas security shield. I want to change that. Europe needs a stuborn president De Gaule that is willing to spend lots of money for its independence. In the end we want to work together as equals not as 2nd class partners. Many europeans are content with a free ride, but I feel that the nations of Germany aned France are too great (in my eyes) that we should take a second seat to anyone. The Romans bought their enemies with luxuary goods eg civilization. I say it will be expensive to free ourselfs from America, but we should try. We owe it to our ancestors to be free from both Russia and America.
 

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I think Europe should take more responsibility and build up the capacity for defending itself. The main problem in the way of doing that are not the Americans, it's ourselves. Also, I'm not sure we'd have what it takes to use force when necessary. Civ is right, just look at Yugoslavia.

At any rate, if Europe takes more responsibility, that doesn't need and shouldn't be directed against America. More European strength doesn't need to mean less ties with America.
 

Mell

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I think Europe should take more responsibility and build up the capacity for defending itself. The main problem in the way of doing that are not the Americans, it's ourselves. Also, I'm not sure we'd have what it takes to use force when necessary. Civ is right, just look at Yugoslavia.

At any rate, if Europe takes more responsibility, that doesn't need and shouldn't be directed against America. More European strength doesn't need to mean less ties with America.
This is a weird point of view. The US is an important trading partner of the European Union. And NATO provides a powerful defence system for Europe and the US. No country in its right mind would attack a NATO member.
 

Mell

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''...but the need Europe politically, in order to deflect some criticism that there behaving like Mr. jeckel....''
That is just cynical.

''The worst part is that the EU gets sucked into these phony wars because their all NATO members''
They dont get 'sucked' into anything. NATO is a defence system. And, no country is likely to attack a NATO member. If a NATO member enters a war under any other condition besides one of its members is attacked, it is by choice, or a belief that they will gain something from it. The former Yugoslavia was an exception. I am not sure why NATO intervened, but I suppose it has something to do with not wanting a war on its doorstep.
 

Mell

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''Many europeans are content with a free ride, but I feel that the nations of Germany aned France are too great (in my eyes) that we should take a second seat to anyone. The Romans bought their enemies with luxuary goods eg civilization. I say it will be expensive to free ourselfs from America, but we should try. We owe it to our ancestors to be free from both Russia and America.''

Nationalism making as little sense as ever.
 

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This is a weird point of view. The US is an important trading partner of the European Union. And NATO provides a powerful defence system for Europe and the US. No country in its right mind would attack a NATO member.
Uhm, yes. Did I say anything that suggests I think differently?
 

bennyhill

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America is doing Europe no favor by picking up the ball, their making us dependent upon a foreign power that views us with contempt and 2nd class. This can only change when we arm to the teeth and defend ourselfs alone without the little brother.
 

Mell

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... a foreign power that views us with contempt and 2nd class.
That is absolute nonsense. The US wants trading partners with democratic ideals, which the EU union has. For sure, it meant Europe being hoisted into a marketplace which somewhat changed Europes economic behaviour, but all in all Europe is benefitting from it. If I was to complain about something, I would say the economic system should be based on more stable banking decisions, but in a democratic system we as citizens dictate how it is. ie we are over influenced by capitalism and materialism, and the banks use this.
 

bennyhill

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I have met so many americans on this forum and others that talk about euroweenies and how we should be grateful for your grandparents contribution to european peace. Give me a break, you have nothing but contempt for Europe. Its better that we go it alone.
 

Mell

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I have met so many americans on this forum and others that talk about euroweenies and how we should be grateful for your grandparents contribution to european peace. Give me a break, you have nothing but contempt for Europe. Its better that we go it alone.
I don't think Americans on an internet site are necessarily representative of the general American opinion. The ones who make the types of comments you describe seem to be trying to pick a fight, rather than take an interest in politics. They are certainly not the types of people to base an opinion about whether the EU should separate from the US on.
 

bennyhill

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I agree that North America and Europe will always have close ties for many reason, I just think if we provide for our defense alone, then we will be free from American interference.
 

Mell

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I agree that North America and Europe will always have close ties for many reason, I just think if we provide for our defense alone, then we will be free from American interference.
What interference? European Union countries enter wars with the US out of choice, if NATO is not involved. I think they shouldnt, but it is still a choice made by the countries involved.
 

bennyhill

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No we always have to prove that were a good NATO partner to America and let us be dragged into wars that we dont want to be apart of. You certainlly dont need us, but you want us poltically so it doesnt seem like a global cop deciding in selfish national interest. We are more or less forced to comply with Washington against our willl.
 

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What interference? European Union countries enter wars with the US out of choice, if NATO is not involved. I think they shouldnt, but it is still a choice made by the countries involved.
Afghanistan. European countries did not sign up for a war, but for training of military and police and building of infrastructure. We were told that the Taliban had been all but defeated by the US... If we had the choice today, we would say no.
 

bennyhill

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I think if America was on the winning side, we would all join in, but nobody wants to be part of a losing war. I just dont see how this war can be won, already the president of Afganistan is trying to win support among the Taliban, actually his enemy? Its a different culture that we dont understand, so lets leave. The ceiling wont fall down, if America leaves see Vietnam.

By the way, I read that America found gold in Afghanistan and other precious metals, did GWB have a hidden agenda? Im asking, because where did soilders find the time to mine, instead of fighting Taliban soilders?
 

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As world cop america gets criticized for its unilateralism. So they need the EU in order to bet some world legitimacy. Militarily, they dont need Europe they could go it alone, but the need Europe politically, in order to deflect some criticism that there behaving like Mr. jeckel. The worst part is that the EU gets sucked into these phony wars because their all NATO members and in world politics everything is complicated and hangs with everything together.

I favor abolishing NATO or kicking America out of it and giving it a new name like European Arm Forces 2001.
"They need Europe politically, in order to deflect some criticism that there behaving like Mr. jeckel..."

ROTFLMFAO... You give Benny Hill a bad name.

During the Bush years, many Americans saw Europe as the enemy. Schroeder. Chiraq. Zapatero. They don't represent the EU, but as the big countries they got a lot of press. Schroeder was perhaps the most disgusting, as we expect as much of the French.

Bush stated we would ask countries to fulfill the roles they can. Schroeder the scum during the election in 2002 twisted this and said no German troops in Iraq. Bush never asked Germany for troops to wage war, knowing their gruesome history. But Schroeder, ever the scumbag kept pressing the strawman. Of course, the German press played right along, fomenting the idiocy, and setting the foundation for it to spread worldwide. In one word... Schroeder and his propagandists were... Irresponsible.

Britannia is not Europe. They behaved like an ally.
Even Kanuckistan, under Cretien behaved like an enema of the US.

American leaders do not need Europe when they are right and Europe is wrong.

If we abolish anything it is the modern version of The League of Nations... aka The UN.

.
 
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spud_meister

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I think if America was on the winning side, we would all join in, but nobody wants to be part of a losing war. I just dont see how this war can be won, already the president of Afganistan is trying to win support among the Taliban, actually his enemy? Its a different culture that we dont understand, so lets leave. The ceiling wont fall down, if America leaves see Vietnam.
you're right, the war's taking longer than expected, we should just let afghanistan slip back into the dark ages, back to public beheadings and the like, why should anyone stick around for the innocent civilians :roll:


By the way, I read that America found gold in Afghanistan and other precious metals, did GWB have a hidden agenda? Im asking, because where did soilders find the time to mine, instead of fighting Taliban soilders?
:rofl i don't know which suggestion is funnier, that they've been waging a war for 9 years, just for recently discovered minerals, or that digging holes is the only way to find said minerals.
 

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you're right, the war's taking longer than expected, we should just let afghanistan slip back into the dark ages, back to public beheadings and the like, why should anyone stick around for the innocent civilians :roll:

:rofl i don't know which suggestion is funnier, that they've been waging a war for 9 years, just for recently discovered minerals, or that digging holes is the only way to find said minerals.
Perhaps the UN will be more sympathetic to their cultural leanings and grant them their wish for an execution stadium next time round.
They might even fund some terrorist training grounds with flight simulators.

.
 

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:rofl i don't know which suggestion is funnier, that they've been waging a war for 9 years, just for recently discovered minerals, or that digging holes is the only way to find said minerals.
Actually the report in question is from 2007 as in 3 years ago, and the actual survey takes years to do, especially during a war or war like situation. So he is some what right.
 

spud_meister

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Actually the report in question is from 2007 as in 3 years ago, and the actual survey takes years to do, especially during a war or war like situation. So he is some what right.
but the suggestion that GWB knew of the minerals before going to war, and then went to war, and now the forces are trying to set up a legitimate government, just to get to minerla deposits, is somewhat ludicrous.
 

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but the suggestion that GWB knew of the minerals before going to war, and then went to war, and now the forces are trying to set up a legitimate government, just to get to minerla deposits, is somewhat ludicrous.
Well yes and no. The Brits. the Russians and the Afghans themselves sought mineral riches long before the Taliban or the war. We knew that there was many minerals in the ground but of what value was unknown. Personally I think the number out is too low but that is me.

So GWB knew as did everyone else that there was a possibility of huge riches in minerals based on historical records, which is most likely why the report was commissioned in the first place.
 

digsbe

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America "needs" Europe because they are a major trading partner and a conglomeration of fellow western democracies. However, we don't "need" Europe to tell us what to do and nor should we take their advice to action. I believe we should listen to Europe, but we shouldn't do as they say and take it all with a grain of salt. Lately Europe has really gone done a dangerous and destructive path.
 

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Lately Europe has really gone done a dangerous and destructive path.
What do you mean by that? In addition there is still a lot of diversity in Europe. We don't for instance have an EU army yet so our foreign policies can be quite diverse. So are you referring to all countries of the EU and if not which ones and what have they done which is to go down a dangerous and destructive path because I have not heard of it.
 
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