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Why do you still support our system of government?

Why do you still support our system of government?

  • I’m one of the 15% - 20% who think it is working properly.

    Votes: 3 9.1%
  • I’m one of the 15% - 20% but think any problems can easily be fixed.

    Votes: 2 6.1%
  • I’m among the 15% - 20% but think it’s not the system it’s the party running it.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I’m among the 80% - 85% but think it’s not the system but the people running it.

    Votes: 11 33.3%
  • I’m among the 80% - 85% but don’t think there is anything we can do about it.

    Votes: 2 6.1%
  • I’m among the 80% - 85% but don’t think there’s enough support to reinvent it.

    Votes: 6 18.2%
  • I’m among the 80% - 85% and am willing to act, just waiting for the right time.

    Votes: 7 21.2%
  • I’m among the 80% - 85% but just don’t give a crap.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I’m not American, and not that concernd about your mess.

    Votes: 2 6.1%

  • Total voters
    33

Captain Adverse

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People seem to have a lot of faith in Polls and Statistics. Recently, several polls have indicated somewhere between 15% and 20% of the American people still have faith in the workings of our government. If so, why do you think we still support it?

I have almost no faith in the workings of our Federal government, and what little there is resides solely within the Federal Court system which seems to be, despite claims otherwise, the last bulwark protecting our individual liberties.

Both houses of Congress are simply whores for banking and corporate interests, and give lip service to the needs of citizens.

The Chief Executive and his cabinet are puppets, acting out roles to make themselves seem important. The upper-level management of the various agencies under their control are cronies and political hacks of whichever party got them appointed, and work to undermine whichever opposing party holds the executive office. Lower management are simply drones, doing as little as possible in order to keep their positions and move up the civil service ladder.

Only the Judicial branch allows some action independent of special interests. Not in all cases of course, political appointments have some sway, but in the main each Judge is trying to balance the scales of justice honestly.

The moment I lose faith in this last small group is the moment I become fully radicalized.

Until then, I’m still willing to work within the system and hope for the best.
 
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rocket88

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“Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.” - Churchill
 

OhIsee.Then

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Oh, you're looking for the form of government that causes humans not to behave like humans. I think that may be difficult, but I'll work on it for a few minutes.
 

Northern Light

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The root of all our problems right now is neoliberalism and a privatized financial system.

As it stands, the largesse of private business is overtaking our government and all of the public assets we hold dear. Our nation's infrastructure is falling apart, we have upwards of 15% realistic unemployment (perhaps more), and more than 25% of the population is having to turn to the government tit. All the while, the private sector continues to rake in obscene profits that are not being redistributed through trickle down.

De-privatize the Federal Reserve and give the power of the financial system back to the People, and our government may be able to restore its democratic functions.

That said, IMO it is far too late. The wealthy are currently building their fortresses and deepening their moats because the writing's on the wall for what's about to happen. With our global empire being artificially kept afloat with fiat money, the government is functioning in name only. Realistically, our economy collapsed in 2008. People should be under no illusions about long term solvency. The ship is being kept afloat so that those with the means can build their shelters. The rest of us are SOL, mostly because Americans are too stupid to have spent the past 15 years doing anything but engaging in pointless partisan bickering. We have been fighting each other instead of our government.
 

molten_dragon

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“Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.” - Churchill
This. I support our form of government, because I've not heard anything better proposed.

That certainly doesn't mean we don't have problems, but I don't see them as being nearly as severe as some others do, and I think they're fixable, if people only cared enough.
 

DVSentinel

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You left off the option I would choose.

I don't.

It has clearly failed. It's failure clearly indicates there are flaws in the system. Therefore, the system needs to be changed.
 

Captain Adverse

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You left off the option I would choose.

I don't.

It has clearly failed. It's failure clearly indicates there are flaws in the system. Therefore, the system needs to be changed.
You mean none of the following three fell into your "I Don't?" category?

1. I’m among the 80% - 85% (who don't trust our system) but don’t think there is anything we can do about it.

2. I’m among the 80% - 85% (who don't trust our system) and am willing to act, just waiting for the right time.

3. I’m among the 80% - 85% (who don't trust our system) but just don’t give a crap.

If you read my opening thread comment I referred to recent polls showing only 15% - 20% trust (and therefore support) our current system. That means the remaining 80% - 85% don't trust in it. Seems like if you don't at all in any form then either 2 or 3 above might fit you. Maybe?
 

Captain Adverse

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“Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.” - Churchill
Yes, but we are too large to be a true democracy. Too many conflicting wants and needs. This allows the wealthy and powerful to divert the masses with false advertising and confusing legislation so as to amass greater wealth and power in a Federal system.

Perhaps we should break up into smaller sovereign units, like those 8 counties in Northern Colorado who want to unite with two counties from Kansas to form a new State, only instead we should seek independence from a powerful Federal government?
 

Captain Adverse

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This. I support our form of government, because I've not heard anything better proposed.

That certainly doesn't mean we don't have problems, but I don't see them as being nearly as severe as some others do, and I think they're fixable, if people only cared enough.
Well, we could try re-organizing into a system with a Federal government of severely limited powers, uniting States for purposes of defense and international commerce but no more. I think that was the "original plan" which got shanghied by radical Federalists.
 
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DVSentinel

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You mean none of the following three fell into your "I Don't?" category?

1. I’m among the 80% - 85% (who don't trust our system) but don’t think there is anything we can do about it.

2. I’m among the 80% - 85% (who don't trust our system) and am willing to act, just waiting for the right time.

3. I’m among the 80% - 85% (who don't trust our system) but just don’t give a crap.

If you read my opening thread comment I referred to recent polls showing only 15% - 20% trust (and therefore support) our current system. That means the remaining 80% - 85% don't trust in it. Seems like if you don't at all in any form then either 2 or 3 above might fit you. Maybe?
No, not really. I do, for some strange reason, actually give a crap. I can think of many different ways and things that can be done. And no, I am not waiting for the right time. The time is well past. Unfortunately, I am disabled and have to work within the limitations of my physical/mental abilities and progress is just slow. It takes time to develop, test and create different, um, tools, yeah, that would be a good name for them.
 

Fisher

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I would prefer the US had regional government that were set up like parliaments that handled most things and that the federal government was greatly limited to direct matters of defense an existing social benefits like SS. I think our current system is unsustainable. I feel like we are becoming more like old school communist China than China is today. The only difference is we have elections to create the illusion we have a say.
 

Captain Adverse

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No, not really. I do, for some strange reason, actually give a crap. I can think of many different ways and things that can be done. And no, I am not waiting for the right time. The time is well past. Unfortunately, I am disabled and have to work within the limitations of my physical/mental abilities and progress is just slow. It takes time to develop, test and create different, um, tools, yeah, that would be a good name for them.
Gotcha. ;) Well, sorry, I thought I covered all the "I Don't" types I could think of. I never thought of simply "I Don't...(no specified reason)" as being a category. I thought trying to change it (even by revolutionary means) was covered.
 

Dooble

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“Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.” - Churchill
I'd like the US to become a Republic again.
 

Captain Adverse

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I would prefer the US had regional government that were set up like parliaments that handled most things and that the federal government was greatly limited to direct matters of defense an existing social benefits like SS. I think our current system is unsustainable. I feel like we are becoming more like old school communist China than China is today. The only difference is we have elections to create the illusion we have a say.
How would we determine regions? And wouldnt that just be putting one more level of government between those we already have? Don't we already have too many levels as it is? (City, County, State, Federal).
 

Goshin

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Well, we could try re-organizing into a system with a Federal government of severely limited powers, uniting States for purposes of defense and international commerce but no more. I think that was the "original plan" which got shanghied by radical Federalists.

At this time, I don't think there is any group of Americans with sufficient numbers and funding and political will to accomplish that.

We're in a mess, yes... but the behemoth is so huge that bringing it down it like eating an elephant with a sherbet spoon.

I think we're just going to have to wait until it all falls apart to put it back together again, and HOPE we don't end up even worse off than before.
 

Fisher

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How would we determine regions? And wouldnt that just be putting one more level of government between those we already have? Don't we already have too many levels as it is? (City, County, State, Federal).
one arbitrary way is just as good as another/ CA should not be able to dictate policy to the south and the south shouldn't dictate policy to CA.
 

Dittohead not!

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Oh, you're looking for the form of government that causes humans not to behave like humans. I think that may be difficult, but I'll work on it for a few minutes.
Humans do behave like humans. That's the problem.

Why do I support our system of government? Because it is the least terrible form of government yet devised.
 

molten_dragon

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Well, we could try re-organizing into a system with a Federal government of severely limited powers, uniting States for purposes of defense and international commerce but no more. I think that was the "original plan" which got shanghied by radical Federalists.
If that didn't work the first time around, why would it work a second time? Face the facts, most people don't want the very weak, limited federal government which was originally outlined in the constitution.
 

Captain Adverse

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At this time, I don't think there is any group of Americans with sufficient numbers and funding and political will to accomplish that.

We're in a mess, yes... but the behemoth is so huge that bringing it down it like eating an elephant with a sherbet spoon.

I think we're just going to have to wait until it all falls apart to put it back together again, and HOPE we don't end up even worse off than before.
I agree. But the problem I see is that waiting for the "crash" would probably end us up in a worse place. I think our nation is too large and diverse, we can't seem to get a real consensus on anything. The only ones who seem to agree are major Financial interests, and they all agree what turns a profit for them is the only important thing. "Greed is Good!" ala Ayn Rand.

I would prefer a peaceful separation into regions and/or individual states with Federal ties for defense and commerce only. I admit I am not sure how well that would work but it would certainly allow each of us as part of a smaller whole to feel we have greater input in the workings.
 

Captain Adverse

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If that didn't work the first time around, why would it work a second time? Face the facts, most people don't want the very weak, limited federal government which was originally outlined in the constitution.
Actually, most people at the time did. It was mostly among wealthy bankers, landowners, and few factory owners who were disgusted with interstate currency issues and conflicting commerce laws that were the primary support of a stronger centralized government. Fancy writing by Madison, Hamilton and John Jay, united in the cause, overcame opponents who were against it for various disparate reasons. Thankfully, those anti-federalists were still strong enough to force Madison to agree to a Bill of Rights.

Sometimes I wish he would have stubbornly opposed them so that New York, Massachusetts, Virginia and other states would have refused to ratify the Constitution.
 

DVSentinel

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Gotcha. ;) Well, sorry, I thought I covered all the "I Don't" types I could think of. I never thought of simply "I Don't...(no specified reason)" as being a category. I thought trying to change it (even by revolutionary means) was covered.
That would of course depend upon your definition of "revolutionary". If you mean teaming up with allies and making a direct military assault, nope, don't see that as a viable method. Oh, selecting and getting allies are important, especially ones that can follow a longterm plan. But you have to make economic, social and other assaults to prepare for change, long before you attempt to actually institute that change.

For example, using a media like this to discover whom might be amenable to my ideas. Also using it to set the stage and provide tools/methods of thinking to dehumanize the enemy. Few, if any, of my comments about the left are in anyway directed to the left, they are simply a tool to set mine and any potential allies minds to the concept that the left, while human in appearance, are not really human.
 

Goshin

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I agree. But the problem I see is that waiting for the "crash" would probably end us up in a worse place. I think our nation is too large and diverse, we can't seem to get a real consensus on anything. The only ones who seem to agree are major Financial interests, and they all agree what turns a profit for them is the only important thing. "Greed is Good!" ala Ayn Rand.

I would prefer a peaceful separation into regions and/or individual states with Federal ties for defense and commerce only. I admit I am not sure how well that would work but it would certainly allow each of us as part of a smaller whole to feel we have greater input in the workings.

Actually I've often thought that may, in the long run, be the only thing that could allow us to survive as a nation without some sort of civil war or other catastrophe. Such an enormous divide exists between various political persuasions and interest groups (not just left/right) that FORCING us ALL to live under the exact same system and laws seems needlessly authoritarian... and unlikely to work in the long run.

The only thing that makes life under our system tolerable IMO is the degree to which Federalism (in the sense of the States being separate gov'ts with their own laws, to a degree) is still active; while my home state has its problems, it is almost libertarian compared to Massachusetts or NY, whose governmental onus I would be most loathe to suffer under.
 

Captain Adverse

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one arbitrary way is just as good as another/ CA should not be able to dictate policy to the south and the south shouldn't dictate policy to CA.
You misunderstood. I wondered how you thought adding another layer of government would help. I did not say it was or was not a good idea. I wanted you to elaborate.
 

Goshin

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Actually, most people at the time did. It was mostly among wealthy bankers, landowners, and few factory owners who were disgusted with interstate currency issues and conflicting commerce laws that were the primary support of a stronger centralized government. Fancy writing by Madison, Hamilton and John Jay, united in the cause, overcame opponents who were against it for various disparate reasons. Thankfully, those anti-federalists were still strong enough to force Madison to agree to a Bill of Rights.

Sometimes I wish he would have stubbornly opposed them so that New York, Massachusetts, Virginia and other states would have refused to ratify the Constitution.

Methinks you've read I Smell A Rat. :)
 
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