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Why Do We Tolerate Voliations of the BOR such as the 1st Amendment

DebateChallenge

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Why do We the People of the United States put up with the government violating our constitution and violating our rights? For instance, the First Amendment gives us freedom of speech and yet the government will punish people for saying stuff. Why do we put up with that? We are allowed to say whatever we want without repercussions.
 

celticwar17

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Why do We the People of the United States put up with the government violating our constitution and violating our rights? For instance, the First Amendment gives us freedom of speech and yet the government will punish people for saying stuff. Why do we put up with that? We are allowed to say whatever we want without repercussions.

What situation are you referring to?
 

DebateChallenge

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What situation are you referring to?

Well I do know of a case of a boy getting in trouble with the law for telling a bully he was going to kill him. This bully in school was constantly harassing the boy until finally the boy said, "Knock it off, Im gonna kill you!" The boy got in trouble not only at school but also with the law for saying he was going to kill the bully. For saying words such as "Im gonna kill you," it might not be a good idea to say such words but the law has no business punishing somebody for saying such words as that would be a violation of the First Amendment which is supposed to guarantee free speech.
 

Cameron

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Well I do know of a case of a boy getting in trouble with the law for telling a bully he was going to kill him. This bully in school was constantly harassing the boy until finally the boy said, "Knock it off, Im gonna kill you!" The boy got in trouble not only at school but also with the law for saying he was going to kill the bully. For saying words such as "Im gonna kill you," it might not be a good idea to say such words but the law has no business punishing somebody for saying such words as that would be a violation of the First Amendment which is supposed to guarantee free speech.
There is no such thing as inviolable rights.

Freedom of speech? There is no freedom to willfully slander other people. Do you disagree with that?
Right to liberty? You can be imprisoned if you commit a crime. Do you disagree with that?
Right to life? You can be killed if you pose a deadly threat to someone else. Do you disagree with that?

The only thing the bill of rights does is say that in these areas, the government has to have not just a legitimate reason, but a compelling reason to interfere with your rights, and the interference must be narrowly tailored to interfere to the least extent possible. This is completely reasonable and has kept our society functioning for hundreds of years.
 

celticwar17

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Well I do know of a case of a boy getting in trouble with the law for telling a bully he was going to kill him. This bully in school was constantly harassing the boy until finally the boy said, "Knock it off, Im gonna kill you!" The boy got in trouble not only at school but also with the law for saying he was going to kill the bully. For saying words such as "Im gonna kill you," it might not be a good idea to say such words but the law has no business punishing somebody for saying such words as that would be a violation of the First Amendment which is supposed to guarantee free speech.

Nooooo... That's a call to violence.... it isn't a violation of the first amendment
 

DebateChallenge

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There is no such thing as inviolable rights.

Freedom of speech? There is no freedom to willfully slander other people. Do you disagree with that?
Right to liberty? You can be imprisoned if you commit a crime. Do you disagree with that?
Right to life? You can be killed if you pose a deadly threat to someone else. Do you disagree with that?

The only thing the bill of rights does is say that in these areas, the government has to have not just a legitimate reason, but a compelling reason to interfere with your rights, and the interference must be narrowly tailored to interfere to the least extent possible. This is completely reasonable and has kept our society functioning for hundreds of years.

Alright I see what you're saying but you shouldn't get in trouble for verbally threatening somebody, that would be a violation of the 1st amendment.
 

DebateChallenge

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Nooooo... That's a call to violence.... it isn't a violation of the first amendment

So do you think being a bully is a good thing? Do you think harassing people is a good thing?
 

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Well I do know of a case of a boy getting in trouble with the law for telling a bully he was going to kill him. This bully in school was constantly harassing the boy until finally the boy said, "Knock it off, Im gonna kill you!" The boy got in trouble not only at school but also with the law for saying he was going to kill the bully. For saying words such as "Im gonna kill you," it might not be a good idea to say such words but the law has no business punishing somebody for saying such words as that would be a violation of the First Amendment which is supposed to guarantee free speech.

You don't see anything wrong with "I'm going to kill you"?

Especially in the wake of school shootings?

It isn't an opinion. It is a threat.
 

DebateChallenge

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You don't see anything wrong with "I'm going to kill you"?

Especially in the wake of school shootings?

It isn't an opinion. It is a threat.
This happened decades ago and it was not in the wake of any school shooting. Anyway I do think its wrong to say to somebody that you're going to kill them. Its wrong from a moral standpoint and its wrong from a common sensical standpoint although this boy was being bullied, its not like he threatened a random innocent person, the boy only told the bully he would kill him when the bully wouldn't stop harassing him. But, although I see it as being wrong from a moral and common sensical standpoint its also wrong for the law to get involved as that would violate the 1st amendment, freedom of speech.
 

Fledermaus

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This happened decades ago and it was not in the wake of any school shooting. Anyway I do think its wrong to say to somebody that you're going to kill them. Its wrong from a moral standpoint and its wrong from a common sensical standpoint although this boy was being bullied, its not like he threatened a random innocent person, the boy only told the bully he would kill him when the bully wouldn't stop harassing him. But, although I see it as being wrong from a moral and common sensical standpoint its also wrong for the law to get involved as that would violate the 1st amendment, freedom of speech.

Now this happened decades ago...

Hmmmm

I'll need to see some sort of citation for this event.
 

Cameron

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Alright I see what you're saying but you shouldn't get in trouble for verbally threatening somebody, that would be a violation of the 1st amendment.
I don't think you should go to prison for words, but would it justify an investigation into whether you are planning to hurt somebody? Should somebody be able to introduce as evidence in a murder trial that the alleged perp told the victim the day before that he was going to kill her? IMO, absolutely.

While I am a firm believer in the First Amendment, and I think that it should be interpreted overbroadly in close cases, I also think there is no social benefit to allowing people to threaten bodily injury against others. That is not the type of exchange of ideas and criticism that the First Amendment is designed to promote.
 

independentusa

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Why do We the People of the United States put up with the government violating our constitution and violating our rights? For instance, the First Amendment gives us freedom of speech and yet the government will punish people for saying stuff. Why do we put up with that? We are allowed to say whatever we want without repercussions.

Ah, no, you can't say anything you want. Yell fire in a crowded theater and the 1st Amendment won't protect you if people are hurt. Slander somepne and you can be sued. You can say what you want in many instances, but that does not mean you won't pay for saying it.
 

Lursa

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Now this happened decades ago...

Hmmmm

I'll need to see some sort of citation for this event.

It's not a new theme for this poster.
 

Slavister

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Why do We the People of the United States put up with the government violating our constitution and violating our rights? For instance, the First Amendment gives us freedom of speech and yet the government will punish people for saying stuff. Why do we put up with that? We are allowed to say whatever we want without repercussions.

... I do know of a case of a boy getting in trouble with the law for telling a bully ...

I thought this was about pulling CNN's Acosta's press pass by bully Trump ... :inandout:
 

Anarchon

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Why do We the People of the United States put up with the government violating our constitution and violating our rights?

Because if you oppose them, they kill you?
Because people have been brainwashed to believe the government is good and necessary?
Because people are retarded and believe without a slave master they'd be less free?
 

SCrider

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This happened decades ago and it was not in the wake of any school shooting. Anyway I do think its wrong to say to somebody that you're going to kill them. Its wrong from a moral standpoint and its wrong from a common sensical standpoint although this boy was being bullied, its not like he threatened a random innocent person, the boy only told the bully he would kill him when the bully wouldn't stop harassing him. But, although I see it as being wrong from a moral and common sensical standpoint its also wrong for the law to get involved as that would violate the 1st amendment, freedom of speech.

So, you got in to trouble years ago in school, and are still mad?
 

DebateChallenge

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So, you got in to trouble years ago in school, and are still mad?

Dude, if you're going to read and respond to my threads I suggest you use your brain while you do so.
 

Deuce

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Because if you oppose them, they kill you?
Because people have been brainwashed to believe the government is good and necessary?
Because people are retarded and believe without a slave master they'd be less free?

Only idiots think Mad Max is objectively better than Sweden.
 

SoCal

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Well I do know of a case of a boy getting in trouble with the law for telling a bully he was going to kill him. This bully in school was constantly harassing the boy until finally the boy said, "Knock it off, Im gonna kill you!" The boy got in trouble not only at school but also with the law for saying he was going to kill the bully. For saying words such as "Im gonna kill you," it might not be a good idea to say such words but the law has no business punishing somebody for saying such words as that would be a violation of the First Amendment which is supposed to guarantee free speech.

Try saying that to Numnuts and see what happens. Do you believe that's ok?

Or do you believe it's ok to threaten everyone but orange people?
 

Fledermaus

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Mad Max is rife with government

The original Mad Max portends the increasing fall towards anarchy. There still are vestiges of government and a growing breakdown.

Mad Max 2 demonstrated anarchy.

Mad Max beyond thunder dome shows the rise of proto-governments to fill the void left by anarchy...
 

Jade Dragon

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So do you think being a bully is a good thing? Do you think harassing people is a good thing?

A bully is a pest, a killer is a criminal of the highest nature. Even threats as such, aren't taken lightly. Are you saying people should be able to threaten to blow up a school, or other populated area, and they should glaze over it, and not see if the threat is real? Threats are not protected speech.
 

DebateChallenge

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A bully is a pest, a killer is a criminal of the highest nature. Even threats as such, aren't taken lightly. Are you saying people should be able to threaten to blow up a school, or other populated area, and they should glaze over it, and not see if the threat is real? Threats are not protected speech.

A bully is often more than just a pest. Sure, at the lowest extreme a bully might just be a pest but at much higher extremes a bully can be much worse. A criminal of the highest nature such as a killer is a bully when you start talking about the other extreme.
 

Deuce

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Mad Max is rife with government

Yes, using your rather expansive definition of government...but once again I have to explain to you that ‘no government’ is not among your options unless you invent a magic wand that ends all crime.
 
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