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Why do they hate us?

Gandhi>Bush said:
What would you say to the theory that maybe the East is the beaten wife fighting back?
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Totally false factually, suicidial and completely fatal to us psychologically.

We’re the good guys. Get that into your heads.
 
Michael Zaretski said:
Totally false factually, suicidial and completely fatal to us psychologically.

We’re the good guys. Get that into your heads.
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You don't think that maybe that's what an Al Qaida Lieutenant would say to one of his subordinates?

If you want to be the Good guy what you have to do is remove all doubt of anything otherwise. Do you think the U.S. has done that? I promise that if you can successfully make yourself a saint and your enemy a monster, you won't have to fight at all.
 
Gandhi>Bush said:
You don't think that maybe that's what an Al Qaida Lieutenant would say to one of his subordinates?

If you want to be the Good guy what you have to do is remove all doubt of anything otherwise. Do you think the U.S. has done that? I promise that if you can successfully make yourself a saint and your enemy a monster, you won't have to fight at all.
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I agree with that. I'd rather see us focus on bad *behavior* rather than bad *people.* Because everyone's guilty of bad behavior.
 
Gandi>Bush said:
You don't think that maybe that's what an Al Qaida Lieutenant would say to one of his subordinates?
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I don’t friggin’ care what an Al-Qaidah lieutenant would say. I’m done with listening to and trying to understand the other side. This is war, you know!

If you want to be the Good guy what you have to do is remove all doubt of anything otherwise. Do you think the U.S. has done that?
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Let me quote myself from one piece I’ve written:

In the Islamic worldview, oppression does not mean what the West thinks it means. A society could be the justest, the most equitable, the fairest, the most considerate towards the weak and the downtrodden, but in Islamic eyes, if it is not governed by Islamic law then it is a society of oppression. Jihad is the struggle against that oppression. Oppression will not cease from the land until shari‘ah rules everywhere.
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THAT’s what people in the West need to get into their heads if our civilisation is to survive.
 
Gandhi>Bush said:
You don't think that maybe that's what an Al Qaida Lieutenant would say to one of his subordinates?

If you want to be the Good guy what you have to do is remove all doubt of anything otherwise. Do you think the U.S. has done that? I promise that if you can successfully make yourself a saint and your enemy a monster, you won't have to fight at all.
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What your asking for I don't think is possible in this day and age. What it does is make you a easier target. We are already a target rich country with little security at best. And what security we do have we don't use lookin at possible threats anyway
 
Snoozin said:
The only Muslim culture(s) I know personally is Egypt and America (DC specifically). And the *overwhelming* majority of the people I know are very peaceful, have no hatred of the US or the West in general (in fact they love America), and really just want to mind their own business. So for them, I say live and let live.

As far and the Islamists, yes, there is definitely a need to reform whatever aspects of Islam are permitting these guys to gain power within their communities.

But I just don't want to punish millions of peaceful people for the horrible sins of a few.

BTW, since you are a student of Islamic issues, do you know anything about Hamid S. Aziz and his book "The Alternative Way?"

http://www.altway.freeuk.com/



Perhaps, but I do think we have some power in dealing with this problem through other-than-violent means. I believe in carrot and stick approach, not just the stick.
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How do we tell the difference between the two?
 
Calm2Chaos said:
How do we tell the difference between the two?
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I'm not sure what you are getting at. Why do we have to tell a difference? We just address illegal behavior. Let law-abiding citizens be.
 
Snoozin said:
I'm not sure what you are getting at. Why do we have to tell a difference? We just address illegal behavior. Let law-abiding citizens be.
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Like the ilegal behavior of flying planes into buildings? My point is the behavior your talking about can cost 1000's of people there lives. Thats a hell of a trade off...
 
Calm2Chaos said:
Like the ilegal behavior of flying planes into buildings? My point is the behavior your talking about can cost 1000's of people there lives. Thats a hell of a trade off...
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I'd rather risk my life and continue to uphold the ideals in our Constitution than erode our civil liberties because of a fear of another terrorist attack.

One of the most incredible things we have in this nation is the legal right to be innocent until proven guilty. To lose these types of rights and privileges just makes us slide that much closer to fascism.
 
Gandhi>Bush said:
Why do you think the terrorists feel the way they do about us?

I've heard many, some on this board, actually say that they our jealous of our prosperity. I've heard some say that it is in their religion to kill. I don't think either of those.

I would just like to hear what you all have to say about this.
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They hate us because we cause foreign policies to be implemened to countries that disavow their ideas. They hate us because we are arrogant people. They hate us because we attempt to spread democracy were it is not wanted. They hate us because we commence wars to force are ideas upon those that are not willing.
 
Snoozin said:
I'd rather risk my life and continue to uphold the ideals in our Constitution than erode our civil liberties because of a fear of another terrorist attack.

One of the most incredible things we have in this nation is the legal right to be innocent until proven guilty. To lose these types of rights and privileges just makes us slide that much closer to fascism.
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And I would rather take some preventitive precautions to avoid 3000+ people dying. I have no concern about being politically correct. I have no use for it and it serves no purpose but to kill people.

So lets just become walking targets so we don't offend anyone.. Nope ... sorry I don't care if you get offened if it means I save the lives of thousands of my civillians
 
wxcrazytwo said:
They hate us because we cause foreign policies to be implemened to countries that disavow their ideas. They hate us because we are arrogant people. They hate us because we attempt to spread democracy were it is not wanted. They hate us because we commence wars to force are ideas upon those that are not willing.
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LMAO..ok... you keep believing that. And I'll believe they hate us because were infidels and are not muslims. I believe that because the Quran says so. They hate for our lifestyle.

Your may be arrogant, don't lump me in with you

I'm betting there are a lot of people happy there not being dragged into torture or rape rooms anymore.

Osama hates us for a whole different reaqson... Ya know what that is?
 
I agree because Saddam ain't doing it. Why, because we have Bush taking his place. Bin Laden hates us because we are in his turf cozing up Isreal.
 
galenrox said:
No, Bin Laden hates us because he's a ****ing arrogant jackass with billions of dollars and nothing to do with them other than build himself up as some sort of ****ing leader.
But I don't understand how Bin Laden comes up in a discussion about Iraq, considering Iraq had NOTHING TO DO WITH BIN LADEN!!!
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Bin Laden is the way he is because of the U.S. He is a leader fighting for a cause whatever that may be. What is our cause? Exactly, nothing...
 
wxcrazytwo said:
I agree because Saddam ain't doing it. Why, because we have Bush taking his place. Bin Laden hates us because we are in his turf cozing up Isreal.
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Lets get something straight...

Bush is not torturing the iraqi public. The soldiers that are there are not killing people. The terrorist are the ones killing and targeting there own people. What it sounds like your saying is that American Soldiers are torturing civilians?

Bin Ladens pissed that the Saudis invited us in to handle the security and didn't take him up on his offer for the Taliban to do it
 
Calm2Chaos said:
And I would rather take some preventitive precautions to avoid 3000+ people dying. I have no concern about being politically correct. I have no use for it and it serves no purpose but to kill people.

So lets just become walking targets so we don't offend anyone.. Nope ... sorry I don't care if you get offened if it means I save the lives of thousands of my civillians
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I'm not being politically correct and caring about offending someone. ?? I'm talking about trying to preserve Constitutional rights. We have no rights unless we keep the existing framework in place.

But I guess you were all for the Japanese interment camps in WWII? Or maybe some preventive measure like arresting all black people *before* they commit a crime, since statistically speaking a black person is more liable to commit a crime than a white?

People who are fearful by nature generally find comfort in authoritarian regimes.
 
Calm2Chaos said:
Lets get something straight...

Bush is not torturing the iraqi public. The soldiers that are there are not killing people. The terrorist are the ones killing and targeting there own people. What it sounds like your saying is that American Soldiers are torturing civilians?

Bin Ladens pissed that the Saudis invited us in to handle the security and didn't take him up on his offer for the Taliban to do it
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What was Abu Grahaib? War dehumanizes everyone.

U.S. Marines execute an Iraqi to the cheers of fellow marines

-:WARNING:-

This video should only be viewed by a mature audience
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5365.htm
 
Calm2Chaos said:
Lets get something straight...

Bush is not torturing the iraqi public. The soldiers that are there are not killing people. The terrorist are the ones killing and targeting there own people. What it sounds like your saying is that American Soldiers are torturing civilians?

Bin Ladens pissed that the Saudis invited us in to handle the security and didn't take him up on his offer for the Taliban to do it
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you might want to read up a little before posting this dung. The Iraqi civilians are worse off now, then when Saddam was in power. Grant it he did some pretty bad stuff, but look at what they are enduring now. You got it half right about Bin laden. Now speak the other half...
 
Michael Zaretski said:
I don’t friggin’ care what an Al-Qaidah lieutenant would say. I’m done with listening to and trying to understand the other side. This is war, you know!
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You don't care that maybe your rhetoric matches up with that of a murderer? You don't care that your rhetoric matches the men you call evil?

Let me quote myself from one piece I’ve written:

THAT’s what people in the West need to get into their heads if our civilisation is to survive.
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You think the 1.2 billion muslims in the world want to overthrow the United States and install a Islamic government? I don't think that is an accurate portrayl of the Islamic worldview at all. Do you think these men take their own lives and blow themselves up because they don't like our culture? I should hope not.
 
Snoozin said:
I'm not being politically correct and caring about offending someone. ?? I'm talking about trying to preserve Constitutional rights. We have no rights unless we keep the existing framework in place.

But I guess you were all for the Japanese interment camps in WWII? Or maybe some preventive measure like arresting all black people *before* they commit a crime, since statistically speaking a black person is more liable to commit a crime than a white?

People who are fearful by nature generally find comfort in authoritarian regimes.
Click to expand...

If blacks were going around killing people with suicide bombs maybe we would think about it. If your an American citizen then you get the rights afforded you by the constitution. Other then that, ot's time to look at were the problems lay. Is that better?
 
wxcrazytwo said:
you might want to read up a little before posting this dung. The Iraqi civilians are worse off now, then when Saddam was in power. Grant it he did some pretty bad stuff, but look at what they are enduring now. You got it half right about Bin laden. Now speak the other half...
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But we are not the ones killing them. There own people, there brother muslims are killing them. It isn't US soldiers targeting day crews and children
 
Snoozin said:
What was Abu Grahaib? War dehumanizes everyone.

U.S. Marines execute an Iraqi to the cheers of fellow marines

-:WARNING:-

This video should only be viewed by a mature audience
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5365.htm
Click to expand...


AWWWW Bummer ... Terrorist saw off an innocent civilians head to the cheers of a nation.... I can feel the tear welling
 
Snoozin said:
What was Abu Grahaib? War dehumanizes everyone.

U.S. Marines execute an Iraqi to the cheers of fellow marines

-:WARNING:-

This video should only be viewed by a mature audience
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5365.htm
Click to expand...

Does the video happen to show what led up to that point or is it just cut that way on purpose? Was that man holding an RPG a second or two prior? Until I know the full story I am not going to say anything concerning the video. Until then it's just propaganda
 
AWWWW Bummer ... Terrorist saw off an innocent civilians head to the cheers of a nation.... I can feel the tear welling
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Are you completely devoid of emotions? Do you not feel ashamed? Must we sink to their level? Show that we are just a bit more civilized then they are?

No I don't suppose so. . .

Does the video happen to show what led up to that point or is it just cut that way on purpose? Was that man holding an RPG a second or two prior? Until I know the full story I am not going to say anything concerning the video. Until then it's just propaganda
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What it make a difference? Taking any kind of pleasure out of killing a human being is sick. Just plain sick.
 
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