Why do pro lifers hate the word ZEF so much? [W:328]

[davidtaylorjr]

Right, accuracy is dishonesty, and manipulative lying is truth. I feel like I'm in a cheap 1984 knock-off. :roll:

Just because you so badly do not want it to be a baby to make your conscience feel better when you advocate the murder of it, doens't make it truth.

 

[Gardener]

Oh my god! *waves frantically* Someone I can ask about this and maybe get a somewhat intellectually honest answer. 'Cause seriously, I'm confused, and all I get from the anti regulars here is "IT'S HATE SPEECH! UNBORN ARE PEOPLES!" like they expect me to call them by the name they don't even have or something.

Why is "ZEF" immature or propogandizing any more than "fetus"? It's just a shorthand to cover all the stages that are possibly relevant to the abortion discussion. Would it somehow not be "close-minded" if we were to type, "zygote, embryo, fetus" every single time?

My experience has been that the people who use the term ZEF tend to be cut from the same cloth as those who scream about baby killers. It's just a general impression, but having seen those who use the term ZEF ALSO try to justify late term abortion right up to and including the delivery day, I see it as a case where the stridency of one's position leads them to defend the indefensible. It would as if an anti-abortion person justified killing abortion doctors or something.

I'm not saying you do this as I haven't paid too terribly much attention to the threads, but the term ZEF tends to conflate all these various stages rather than act as a convenient shorthand. If people are using the same term for the few minutes after fertilization as they do 8 months and 29 days later, they are resorting to quite a dishonest framing device.

Why not just call a zygote a zygote, and embryo an embryo and a fetus a fetus? The nature of the debate changes with the stage of development, especially in terms of awareness, and so the conflation takes away from understanding rather than leading towards it.

 

[AGENT J]

I was just wondering since I never use that term in support of abortion. Personally I call the unborn either human fetuses or call them unborn humans so I' am not guilty of ''dehumanizing'' them.

And also fellow pro choicers what do you have to say about this?

well for me i mostly use ZEF because its the easiest thing to use (the whole point behind an acronym) and many of the contents of abortion discussions sometimes re specifically related to one them stages and some things exclude one or include them all.

I have also used unborn and life to. I always say abortion is about two LIVES.

anyway on to your question

the thing is pro-lifers in general dont hate the acronym ZEF, as a matter of fact many pro-lifers use it just like any other normal acronym. The only people bothered by it are the handful of dishonest joke posters, and extremists that nobody takes seriously anyway. If the term ZEF bothers them they are clearly not to be taken seriously and their inane rhetoric and biased delusional hyperbolic ranting about it will only further prove how dishonest and void of reality and facts they are.

Fact is, its an acronym and nothing more.

any delusions about it sole purpose being to dehumanize are silly. Also since there arent any pro-choice people i know that dont admit the ZEF is in fact human, not to mention ZEF is an acronym for Zygote, Embryo and Fetus and last i checked in the context of abortion those are all HUMAN any problem with ZEF is nonsensical, irrational and dishonest.

Calling it a bigot term or negative is a failed strawmen and an attempt to score points, its as stupid as saying "anti-choicers" or "pro-baby-killers" and ACTUALLY thinking that it accomplished something. Nobody honest falls for it. Its an appeal to emotion and nothign else. Theres no logical reason to be bothered by ZEF. if a person disagrees with me please post the logic the justifies being bothered by the usage of ZEF.

are there people that try to dehumanize a ZEF, yes of course, just like there are people that dehumanize the woman but that has nothing to do with the acronym ZEF.

Zygote Embryo Fetus - What does ZEF stand for? Acronyms and abbreviations by the Free Online Dictionary.

Like i said earlier i was on a RELIGIOUS PRO-LIFE site that uses the acronym, guess they are just a bunch of damn hateful bigots!

Best part is the word is meaningless to the debate

ZEF
fetus
child
baby
unborn
person
human
human being etc etc etc

none of them impact the foundation of the debate

TWO LIVES :shrug:

 

[Removable Mind]

My experience has been that the people who use the term ZEF tend to be cut from the same cloth as those who scream about baby killers. It's just a general impression, but having seen those who use the term ZEF ALSO try to justify late term abortion right up to and including the delivery day, I see it as a case where the stridency of one's position leads them to defend the indefensible. It would as if an anti-abortion person justified killing abortion doctors or something.

I'm not saying you do this as I haven't paid too terribly much attention to the threads, but the term ZEF tends to conflate all these various stages rather than act as a convenient shorthand. If people are using the same term for the few minutes after fertilization as they do 8 months and 29 days later, they are resorting to quite a dishonest framing device.

Why not just call a zygote a zygote, and embryo an embryo and a fetus a fetus? The nature of the debate changes with the stage of development, especially in terms of awareness, and so the conflation takes away from understanding rather than leading towards it.

Why us not use SCOTUS instead of Supreme Court of the United States. Or Why not use POTUS instead of President of the United States.

Using ZEF isn't a disrespectful term. Nor is it used to imply that an 8 month old fetus is normally included in a common point of debate when talking about abortion.

Why? Because everybody who regularly post in the abortion forum knows that 60 percent of abortions involve 9 week and less old fetus. 25 percent of abortions involve 10 to 12 week old fetuses.

Now we know that over 85% of abortions are conducted during the 12 week and less periods of gestation.

Only about 1.5 percent of abortions involve fetuses that are 20 plus weeks and older ...and most of those are related to defective or dead fetuses...or the woman's life or long term health is at stake.

Consequently...ZEF is not used to dehumanize (aka human life - used by pro-birth advocates) or disregard 3 trimester fetuses...or consider them in the same vain as a non-viable fetus.

 

[Josie]

A woman I know had a kid recently, and refered to the ultrasound pictures of looking and feeling kind of like an alien. She loves her kid, but she knows that it wasn't a kid early on.

So based on her feelings and emotions, the scientifically-proven human life wasn't a human life at all. :roll:

 

[Scrabaholic]

I was just wondering since I never use that term in support of abortion. Personally I call the unborn either human fetuses or call them unborn humans so I' am not guilty of ''dehumanizing'' them.

And also fellow pro choicers what do you have to say about this?

I use the acronym to cut down on typing. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Josie]

I use the acronym to cut down on typing. Nothing more, nothing less.

"Baby" is only one more letter. Just sayin'.

 

[Scrabaholic]

It's a term that is rarely used except by hateful bigots, for the express purpose of dehumanizing and degrading a segment of the human population to which they want to deny the most basic and essential of all human rights.

Oh, the irony of someone who uses the 'n' word saying this.....

 

[Scrabaholic]

It's not a word.

You're right, it's not. It's an acronym.

 

[choiceone]

The problem I have is that nobody calls it a zygote, embryo, fetus, zef, other than people advocating abortions. Most humans, when they or someone in their family is pregnant, call it exactly what it is, a baby.

First, in so far as they do call it a baby, they probably do so because they are happy to be pregnant and are projecting the possible future onto the actual present in saying an embryo is a baby before it becomes one. But the truth is that, in this country, when a woman discovers she is pregnant, she tells you, "I'm pregnant" or "I'm having a baby" or "I'm going to have a baby." The second of these choices is, as any professional linguistics specialist could tell you, an elliptical form of the third of these choices, because of the use of the present progressive verb tense. When people have houses, families, spouses, or children, etc., they are continuous possessions, and they therefore say, "I have a house," "I have children," etc., and the expression, "I have a baby," only refers to a born baby. "I had a baby," on the other hand, can refer ambiguously either to a baby one had before it died or one gave it up for adoption or to the past act of giving birth to a baby.

 

[choiceone]

"When is your fetus due?"

"How are you feeling?" "I feel great, and the doctor says our fetus is growing right on schedule."

"You're invited to a fetus shower!"

1. When is your ____ due? is a grammatical form that refers to something that will arrive in the future. For a pregnant woman, a baby is due to arrive in the future, while the fetus is already present.

2. I don't find anything wrong with this, because if one has just received information about the growth of the fetus, there is no reason for doctor not to have used the word fetus and the lay person to have repeated it.

3. It's called a baby shower because people bring presents to the woman who is expecting to give birth to a baby. The presents are all for taking care of the baby who has not "arrived" yet. When you give a woman a bridal shower, the shower occurs before she becomes a bride on her wedding day, and the presents are all for her home immediately after the marriage takes place, not right at the present.

 

[choiceone]

Just because you so badly do not want it to be a baby to make your conscience feel better when you advocate the murder of it, doens't make it truth.

You simply imagine that she must have a guilty conscience because she really doesn't want to face the truth as you have defined it. But the fact is that she does not acknowledge what you have claimed to be the truth. Many millions of people in the US do not think that an embryo is a baby. So what?

 

[choiceone]

My experience has been that the people who use the term ZEF tend to be cut from the same cloth as those who scream about baby killers. It's just a general impression, but having seen those who use the term ZEF ALSO try to justify late term abortion right up to and including the delivery day, I see it as a case where the stridency of one's position leads them to defend the indefensible. It would as if an anti-abortion person justified killing abortion doctors or something.

I'm not saying you do this as I haven't paid too terribly much attention to the threads, but the term ZEF tends to conflate all these various stages rather than act as a convenient shorthand. If people are using the same term for the few minutes after fertilization as they do 8 months and 29 days later, they are resorting to quite a dishonest framing device.

Why not just call a zygote a zygote, and embryo an embryo and a fetus a fetus? The nature of the debate changes with the stage of development, especially in terms of awareness, and so the conflation takes away from understanding rather than leading towards it.

I disagree with this. First, I have not seen on these threads anyone who tries to justify late term abortion right up to and including the delivery day because that's really stupid. It's not stupid because the fetus at that point is a baby or a person or anything of the sort. It's stupid because I don't know of any competent doctor who would agree to perform an abortion on the delivery day, not even in the US states where it is legal, or Canada, where it's also legal. The further along the pregnancy is past viability, the more probable it is that inducing labor or caesarian section would be safer for the woman than an abortion.

I do agree that ZEF conflates the stages, but there are many times one wants to address a point that relates to all the stages, and that is where it gets tiring to spell out every world. I'm not sure that makes it a dishonest framing device. I for one do not believe that a zygote, morula, blastocyst, embryo, or fetus is a person or has rights, and that opinion reaches all the way up to, but not including, childbirth for me. I find the term annoying, however, because I do think that the distinction between a pre-viable fetus and a viable fetus is significant, so I am not emotionally attached to the use of ZEF.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

It's a term that is rarely used except by hateful bigots, for the express purpose of dehumanizing and degrading a segment of the human population to which they want to deny the most basic and essential of all human rights.

Oh, the irony of someone who uses the 'n' word saying this.....

No irony at all. Because I have dared to use the n-word, you would like to paint me as a racist, in order to somehow try to claim that your own bigotry isn't so bad, compared to that of me, the horrible racist who dare to use the n-word.

Of course, any honest examination of my use of the n-word would reveal that I am not using to to refer to the people against whom that word is a slur; I am using it to metaphorically point out the bigotry of others, such as yourself.

I challenge you and anyone else to go through all that I have ever posted, and see if you can find anything that indicates that I hold any person in less regard because of that person's ethnicity. You cannot, because I do not, and have never expressed otherwise.

On the other hand, when those on your side use the Z-word, you nearly always mean it exactly as an expression of the very most hateful bigotry possible; to deny the very humanity of a human being in order to justify depriving that human being of his very life.

Your own bigotry is out in the open for all to see. Falsely accusing me of bigotry does nothing to hide nor to mitigate your own blatant, murderous bigotry.

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

So based on her feelings and emotions, the scientifically-proven human life wasn't a human life at all. :roll:

No based on her feelings and emotions the pregnant women doesn't think it's a baby, kid or a child yet

And yes scientifically the unborn are humans life and this is a pro choicer admitting that to you

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

You're right, it's not. It's an acronym.

I just noticed that.

I was typing this late into the night and was somewhat half asleep when I did so

 

[AGENT J]

Oh, the irony of someone who uses the 'n' word saying this.....

yep

i can say without a doubt weather written or spoken, on here or in real life since a joining here in 2010 nobody has said that work more than him. Its not even close.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

They hate the word "ZEF" because it doesn't support their narrative. Same reason pro-choicers insist on using it. They're fighting over the use of words because they believe using their emotionally-loaded terminology instead of the other side's gives their arguments legitimacy.

The sad thing is that it works.

 

[Gardener]

ZEF is not used to dehumanize (.

Ah -- so you hasve some common ground with those opposing abortion.

They consider this.......ummmmm........"ZEF" to be human, too.

 

[JayDubya]

First, I have not seen on these threads anyone who tries to justify late term abortion right up to and including the delivery day because that's really stupid. /

Then you need your eyes checked. Scrabaholic and Smoke&Mirrors have both done exactly that.


We're kind of good at keeping tabs on the crazy things you guys say at this point.

 

[Scrabaholic]

"Baby" is only one more letter. Just sayin'.

That is a term of endearment. I call my dog 'baby', does that make her a human unborn entity?

 

[Scrabaholic]

No irony at all. Because I have dared to use the n-word, you would like to paint me as a racist, in order to somehow try to claim that your own bigotry isn't so bad, compared to that of me, the horrible racist who dare to use the n-word.

Of course, any honest examination of my use of the n-word would reveal that I am not using to to refer to the people against whom that word is a slur; I am using it to metaphorically point out the bigotry of others, such as yourself.

I challenge you and anyone else to go through all that I have ever posted, and see if you can find anything that indicates that I hold any person in less regard because of that person's ethnicity. You cannot, because I do not, and have never expressed otherwise.

On the other hand, when those on your side use the Z-word, you nearly always mean it exactly as an expression of the very most hateful bigotry possible; to deny the very humanity of a human being in order to justify depriving that human being of his very life.

Your own bigotry is out in the open for all to see. Falsely accusing me of bigotry does nothing to hide nor to mitigate your own blatant, murderous bigotry.

Anyone who uses the 'n' word is a racist and a bigot.

How do you like your own rationale being used against you?

 

[Navy Pride]

I truly believe with my whole heart that the act of abortion is the worse thing one human being can do to another.........It is legal murder in the womb and the people that practice it will answer to their maker on judgment day.

 

[Removable Mind]

Ah -- so you hasve some common ground with those opposing abortion.

They consider this.......ummmmm........"ZEF" to be human, too.

I agree that a human zygote, embryo, fetus is human...unless DNA tests show otherwise. Is being human life the defining element for which pro-birth advocates find all of these different stages of development to have equal value to them?

Technically there is another entity within those that is not at all human, but can't humans can't survive without it. This little entity is called "mitochondria". It has it's own DNA. It's job is to convert glucose into an energy substance necessary for all cells to survive.

There is another part of a cell that is also considered to be not exactly human, which is responsible for cell division, but that's another story.

 

[Navy Pride]

Anyone who uses the 'n' word is a racist and a bigot.

How do you like your own rationale being used against you?

then there must be a lot of black bigots and racists out there because they use the words more the anyone else.