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Why Do Muslims Think The Quran Came From The Abrahamic God?

SheWolf said:
109:1 6. Unbelievers, I do not worship what you worship, nor do you worship what I worship. I shall never worship what you worship, nor will you ever worship what I worship. Unto you, your religion, and unto me my religion.
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So? There's no 'and that's OK' either stated or implied. As Valery pointed out to you, the qur'an says, "If you choose any religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted".

I am also getting really tired of the Christian centric arguments coming from you and Tosca. The Bible does not belong to Christians. It involves the Hebrew Bible, which is central to the Jews. The calls to war are more violent, and it has been studied and proven. As the other poster tried to explain, Muslims were never taught to commit genocide. Muslims were taught to spare women and children in war.
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Right. The women and children of the Banu Quraiza tribe were merely enslaved rather than killed. The men and youths were all slaughtered AFTER they surrendered and posed exactly ZERO threat to Mohamed and his band of butchers. Oh, that peace loving Mohamed. What a guy. What a mensch.

The Hebrew Bible commands genocide of enemies, and the killing of women and children.
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A. You're talking about stories rather than on-going commands (unlike the qur'an), and B. don't forget Muslims claim to believe the OT as well.

There is a huge problem with your honesty, because you refuse to acknowledge the facts. The Christians claim they worship the OT god and the same god of the Jews, which is my god. It either is or it is not. The Hebrew Bible applies to the Jews, so why single out Islam? The supremacist and selective attitude towards scriptures, and singling out of Islam, is nothing more than a hateful and supremacist attitude.
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Nope. Singling out Islam is EXPOSING a hateful and supremacist attitude:

98:6 - "those who disbelieve from among the followers of the Book and the polytheists shall be in the fire of hell, abiding therein; they are the worst of men".
98:7 - "those who believe (Muslims) and do good, surely they are the best of men".
 
Valery said:
You said "yes" as though you were about to show what else is lost, but you only wanted to highlight the existence of the capital punishment for apostasy. I accept the laws of Allah.
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I'm showing that yes, Muslims get killed for leaving Islam. We're talking of the physical! It's written in the Quran!

The point is: it's like the cartel. :LOL: Once you're in - you can never leave!
 
Valery said:
No they don't.
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No, Muslims don't believe because they think the Bible is flawed. Like - instead of Isaac, Abraham was instructed by God to sacrifice Ishmael!
Lol - and God had let the Bible get around with so many "fake info!"

They think the Abrahamic God is IMPERFECT that He's a clutch!
Lol - they think God has made so many mistakes - He can't even publish a perfect book! :LOL:

That means.........Mohammad knows more than God. Right?
 
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tosca1 said:
No, Muslims don't believe because they think the Bible is flawed. Like - instead of Isaac, Abraham was instructed by God to sacrifice Ishmael!
Lol - and God had let the Bible get around with so many "fake info!"

They think the Abrahamic God is IMPERFECT that He's a clutch!
Lol - they think God has made so many mistakes - He can't even publish a perfect book! :LOL:

That means.........Mohammad knows more than God. Right?
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:rolleyes: No arguments detected.
 
tosca1 said:
No, Muslims don't believe because they think the Bible is flawed. Like - instead of Isaac, Abraham was instructed by God to sacrifice Ishmael!
Lol - and God had let the Bible get around with so many "fake info!"

They think the Abrahamic God is IMPERFECT that He's a clutch!
Lol - they think God has made so many mistakes - He can't even publish a perfect book! :LOL:

That means.........Mohammad knows more than God. Right?



Valery said:
:rolleyes: No arguments detected.
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Lol. Imagine that - he corrected God!
I'm glad you agree with me. That's what I thought - hence, Mohammad is kinda worshipped as a god.
 
stevecanuck said:
The qur'an contains hundreds of OT references, so, yes they do.
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They are not "OT references". They are references to the previous revelation. Even if we ignored that and we were to say that it contained references to the OT, it would not at all be the same as "Muslims claim to believe the OT as well". Capisce?
 
Valery said:
They are not "OT references". They are references to the previous revelation. Even if we ignored that and we were to say that it contained references to the OT, it would not at all be the same as "Muslims claim to believe the OT as well". Capisce?
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Nope. The 'previous revelations' are said to be true and valid. Fahemtani?
 
stevecanuck said:
Nope. The 'previous revelations' are said to be true and valid. Fahemtani?
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Obviously the previous revelations are true. If they weren't, they wouldn't be revelations, but the OT is not revelation. Förstår du?
 
Valery said:
Obviously the previous revelations are true. If they weren't, they wouldn't be revelations, but the OT is not revelation. Förstår du?
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They are revelations! Lol. How would we know about creation if that wasn't REVEALED in the OT?

The OT talks about the coming of the Messiah, and, what that would mean for mankind!

As an example, Isaiah 53.

The Suffering Servant
53 Who has believed our message?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 For He grew up before Him like a tender [a]shoot,
And like a root out of parched ground;
He has no stately form or majesty
That we should look upon Him,
Nor appearance that we should [b]be attracted to Him.
3 He was despised and forsaken of men,
A man of [c]sorrows and acquainted with [d]grief;
And like one from whom men hide their face
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.

4 Surely our [e]griefs He Himself bore,
And our [f]sorrows He carried;
Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken,
[g]Smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But He was [h]pierced through for our transgressions,
He was crushed for our iniquities;
The chastening for our [i]well-being fell upon Him,
And by His scourging we are healed.
6 All of us like sheep have gone astray,
Each of us has turned to his own way;
But the Lord has caused the iniquity of us all
To [j]fall on Him.

7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted,
Yet He did not open His mouth;
Like a lamb that is led to slaughter,
And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers,
So He did not open His mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment He was taken away;
And as for His generation, who considered
That He was cut off out of the land of the [k]living
For the transgression of my people, to whom the stroke was due?
9 His grave was assigned with wicked men,
Yet He was with a rich man in His death,
Because He had done no violence,
Nor was there any deceit in His mouth.

10 But the Lord was pleased
To crush Him, [l]putting Him to grief;
If [m]He would render Himself as a guilt offering,
He will see His [n]offspring,
He will prolong His days,
And the [o]good pleasure of the Lord will prosper in His hand.
11 As a result of the [p]anguish of His soul,
He will see [q]it and be satisfied;
By His knowledge the Righteous One,
My Servant, will justify the many,
As He will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great,
And He will divide the booty with the strong;
Because He poured out [r]Himself to death,
And was numbered with the transgressors;
Yet He Himself bore the sin of many,
And interceded for the transgressors.
 
RECAP


For those who are just entering the thread, the following evidences/rationale had been given as to why the Quran could not have
come from the Abrahamic God:


It mostly hinges on the angel who appeared to Mohammad.


#1 The angel Gabriel described in the Bible had a certain gentleness about him when dealing with people. He sought to calm and allay their fears.
The angel who appeared to Muhammad (which they claim is Gabriel), is nowhere like the angel Gabriel that is described in the Bible. He assaulted and terrified Mohammad.
post #9



#2 Mohammad had thought the angel was from the devil, that's why he was so terrified. He was hysterical that his wife had tried to comfort and reassure him that the angel was not from the devil. post #10 and 12

The cave encounter was not the first! Mohammad was brutalised by the angel as a child. post#200




#3 It was Mohammad's wife who convinced Mohammad that the angel was not from the devil. However, his wife wouldn't have known that.
She was not in the cave with him when it happened. post #10 and 12




#4 The description of creation of man given by the angel who appeared to Mohammad, is not the same as the creation account
given in the Book of Genesis. post #20

The arabic term used is "alaq." It means a clot of blood.

Then We made the sperm-drop into a clinging clot, and We made the clot into a lump [of flesh], and We made [from] the lump, bones, and We covered the bones with flesh; then We developed him into another creation. So blessed is Allah , the best of creators.
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation


The Abrahamic God made Adam from clay!

Therefore, the Quran refers to a different creator.




#5 It says in the Quran that God taught Jesus Christ how to read and write. (Sura 3:47-48)
Why wasn't Mohammad taught by God to read and write?
 
tosca1 said:
Lol. How would we know about creation if that wasn't REVEALED in the OT?
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Well, the Qur'an tells us about the creation. The Bible contains a significant amount of errors when it comes to its explanation of the creation. Yet, "if it wasn't revelation, how would we know X" is not a valid argument.
 
tosca1 said:
RECAP


For those who are just entering the thread, the following evidences/rationale had been given as to why the Quran could not have
come from the Abrahamic God:


It mostly hinges on the angel who appeared to Mohammad.


#1 The angel Gabriel described in the Bible had a certain gentleness about him when dealing with people. He sought to calm and allay their fears.
The angel who appeared to Muhammad (which they claim is Gabriel), is nowhere like the angel Gabriel that is described in the Bible. He assaulted and terrified Mohammad.
post #9



#2 Mohammad had thought the angel was from the devil, that's why he was so terrified. He was hysterical that his wife had tried to comfort and reassure him that the angel was not from the devil. post #10 and 12

The cave encounter was not the first! Mohammad was brutalised by the angel as a child. post#200




#3 It was Mohammad's wife who convinced Mohammad that the angel was not from the devil. However, his wife wouldn't have known that.
She was not in the cave with him when it happened. post #10 and 12




#4 The description of creation of man given by the angel who appeared to Mohammad, is not the same as the creation account
given in the Book of Genesis. post #20

The arabic term used is "alaq." It means a clot of blood.

Then We made the sperm-drop into a clinging clot, and We made the clot into a lump [of flesh], and We made [from] the lump, bones, and We covered the bones with flesh; then We developed him into another creation. So blessed is Allah , the best of creators.
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation


The Abrahamic God made Adam from clay!

Therefore, the Quran refers to a different creator.




#5 It says in the Quran that God taught Jesus Christ how to read and write. (Sura 3:47-48)
Why wasn't Mohammad taught by God to read and write?
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God taught birds to fly. Why didn't God teach me to fly?
 
Valery said:
God taught birds to fly. Why didn't God teach me to fly?
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Why - are you another "senior" prophet?

You're missing the point.

Mohammad was supposed to be the last prophet, right? That's what he claimed!
Your Quran teaches that God had taught Jesus how to read and write.
So - why wasn't Mohammad taught by God the same way that Jesus was taught?
 
tosca1 said:
Here's another evid3nce why the



Why - are you another "senior" prophet?

Mohammad was supposed to be the last prophet, right? That's what he claimed!
So - why wasn't he taught by God the same way that Jesus was taught?
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Why would he have been taught the same way?
 
Valery said:
Why would he have been taught the same way?
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Why not?


Lol. Why would you believe the claim of an illiterate man just because he claimed something?
Especially so when you see so many contradictions in his claims!
 
tosca1 said:
Why not?

Lol. Why would you believe the claim of an illiterate man just because he claimed something? Especially so when you see so many contradictions in his claims?
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It's not a "why not" question. Or rather, a "why not" is not an argument. You might as well be asking, "but why were we not created with tails?"

Show me a contradiction in his claims. Please, let it not be a continuation of your ramblings about the angel Gabriel.
 
Valery said:
It's not a "why not" question. Or rather, a "why not" is not an argument. You might as well be asking, "but why were we not created with tails?"

Show me a contradiction in his claims. Please, let it not be a continuation of your ramblings about the angel Gabriel.
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I suppose I'll have to create that thread after all.

There. Created.
 
Valery said:
Obviously the previous revelations are true. If they weren't, they wouldn't be revelations, but the OT is not revelation. Förstår du?
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You believe all the stories. They come from the OT. Therefore...........
 
stevecanuck said:
You believe all the stories. They come from the OT. Therefore...........
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We don't believe the stories in the OT. I can't think of a single story that could be believed in as it is in the OT. Therefore...
 
Valery said:
Show me a contradiction in his claims.
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Here's a contradiction I noticed when I reread the qur'an. When allah was whining (yet again) about the hypocrites not joining the expedition to Tabuk, verse 43 clearly claims Mohamed was responsible for allowing them to stay behind, "May God forgive you! (Muhammad), why did you not let them join the army so that you could discern the liars from the truthful ones?" Then verse 46 shows it was actually allah his own self who let them stay behind, "Had they (the hypocrites) wanted to join your army, they would have prepared themselves, but God did not wish to motivate them, so He caused them to linger behind with those whose joining you in battle would be of no use".

Pick a lane, allah. Pick a lane.
 
Valery said:
One could start with the extent of the flood.
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If you believe the Bible is unreliable - I suppose you can't possibly believe that Hagar and Ishmael were indeed blessed by God?
That biblical part about Hagar and Ishmael never happened?

I suppose, hagar was just a slave who simply got lucky when she left Sarah and Abraham. Or, maybe, she never left them at all.....she died a slave.



You see the terrible predicament you're in?
Your Quran tries to discredit the Bible when at the same time, the Quran believes in it! :ROFLMAO:


In other words, you guys cherry-pick on the Bible.


Thus I say, what stopped Mohammad from cherry-picking the Scriptures in creating his own religion?
What's the difference between Islam and other johnny-come-lately religion like Jehovah's Witnesses, or Mormonism? NONE!

There's nothing to support Mohammad's claim!
 
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