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Why do liberals think the police shooting Philando Castile is unjust, but think the police shooting Ashli Babbitt was fine?

Ouroboros

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The FBI never stated the Insurrectionists weren't insurrectionists. The FBI only stated they weren't organized. A statement I agree with.

Please point out where, in the article cited, it says the FBI stated the Insurrectionists are not Insurrectionists. The insurrectionists may not if been organized, being a haphazard collection of cosplay MAGA dimwits. But they certainly did intend to stop the legal transfer of power. And, they did succeed, albeit for a very short amount of time.
Wow, you actually did a little work on your own. But I'm sure that's as far as you can go, since you'll never get how the matter of context comes into play. "Insurrection" is a term used for actual attempts to overthrow authority, "riots" are used for a bunch of idiots making a mess for no real purpose but to vent their frustrations. Except when the term "insurrection" is used by political pundits for their own ends.
 

Ouroboros

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Yes, in the context of a bunch of supporters of the losing presidential candidate storming the capital to prevent the congress from certifying the election results it is even more apparent that it was an insurection.
See post 501.
 

Ouroboros

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Since I'm sure Lursa really wants some history on the Sicknick hoax, here's National Review on how long it took New York Times to retract their unsubstantiated story on the "fire extinguisher death."


During which time, of course, CNN and others also reported the story as absolute, unqualified fact. It took them over a month, just as I stated earlier.
 

Crakhobarbie

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Wow, you actually did a little work on your own. But I'm sure that's as far as you can go, since you'll never get how the matter of context comes into play. "Insurrection" is a term used for actual attempts to overthrow authority, "riots" are used for a bunch of idiots making a mess for no real purpose but to vent their frustrations. Except when the term "insurrection" is used by political pundits for their own ends.
The group that organized the Jan 6th insurrection is named "stop the steal". The disorganized mob of moronic cosplay MAGA dimwits were there to " stop the steal" by interfering with the legal transfer of POTUS power. Therefore, it was an insurrection. The dimwitted cosplay miscreants involved were Insurrectionists. And no matter how long you want to diddle with the semantics, you still will be demonstrably wrong.
 

Lursa

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You’re living in a dream world. If anyone did care to review the way this began, that person would find that what I was refuting, prior to you sticking in your oar, was the idea that the rioters fully intended to hang Mike Pence because they were caught up in their emotional rants. Not surprisingly, you deflected from that point to get off on this oversimplified characterization of the rioters. That’s your privilege here even if you accomplished nothing, but it was really lame when you tried to prove that I was in agreement with you. Thanks for demonstrating your complete dishonesty.
Flaccidly empty post. All you did was use a bunch of words to say 'na huh.'

If you wont stick by the conversation you chose to invest in with me, and havent succeeded in upholding your views, dont blame it on me. Just acknowledge that and move on.

Btw, I didnt try to 'prove' we were in agreement...I was trying to find common ground. In good faith. And instead, you were so offended you were triggered. That's pretty sad. That's just how blind and deep your bias is, you couldnt even recognize it because you're so sure it doesnt exist.
 

Ouroboros

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Your assessment is wrong.

They were trying to "stop the steal", in other words prevent congress from certifying election results. That is the context.That makes it an insurection not a riot

The rioters had no plan beyond venting. Riot.
 

Ouroboros

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The group that organized the Jan 6th insurrection is named "stop the steal". The disorganized mob of moronic cosplay MAGA dimwits were there to " stop the steal" by interfering with the legal transfer of POTUS power. Therefore, it was an insurrection. The dimwitted cosplay miscreants involved were Insurrectionists. And no matter how long you want to diddle with the semantics, you still will be demonstrably wrong.

Still waiting for you to prove why the legal definition of “riot” doesn’t fit the situation as well as your dictionary definition of “insurrection.” If you like definitions so much, you should be able to disprove the applicability of the riot-definition with more than “because I said so.”
 

Ouroboros

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Flaccidly empty post. All you did was use a bunch of words to say 'na huh.'

If you wont stick by the conversation you chose to invest in with me, and havent succeeded in upholding your views, dont blame it on me. Just acknowledge that and move on.

Btw, I didnt try to 'prove' we were in agreement...I was trying to find common ground. In good faith. And instead, you were so offended you were triggered. That's pretty sad. That's just how blind and deep your bias is, you couldnt even recognize it because you're so sure it doesnt exist.

There was absolutely no good faith in the post referenced. It was all about seeking to undermine my position with a false equivalence. That at least is a more legitimate debate tactic than the more common use of straw men seen on many threads here. But now that the tactic failed, you’re the one that needs to move on.

I can link if necessary to clips of CNN declaring unreservedly the truth of the “Sicknick murder” if my essay link (post 503) didn’t satisfy you. Is it still your position that the media treated the unsubstantiated story in a responsible manner?’
 

Crakhobarbie

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Still waiting for you to prove why the legal definition of “riot” doesn’t fit the situation as well as your dictionary definition of “insurrection.” If you like definitions so much, you should be able to disprove the applicability of the riot-definition with more than “because I said so.”
Oh my.....
 

Lursa

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There was absolutely no good faith in the post referenced. It was all about seeking to undermine my position with a false equivalence. That at least is a more legitimate debate tactic than the more common use of straw men seen on many threads here. But now that the tactic failed, you’re the one that needs to move on.

Awwww, how sad. You are so beleaguered on an Internet forum. And you are wrong...your paranoia and blind bias serve you very poorly. Quadrupling down wont fix it.

I can link if necessary to clips of CNN declaring unreservedly the truth of the “Sicknick murder” if my essay link (post 503) didn’t satisfy you. Is it still your position that the media treated the unsubstantiated story in a responsible manner?’
Sure, let's see CNN saying that Sicknick was killed by being beaten with a fire extinguisher...which was your claim that you said was published for days, even weeks, after 1/6. Dont go moving the goal posts...you want to keep going here, stick to the actual subject. All I'm aware of is fake news right-wing media publishing and prolonging that narrative...which you apparently bought into. Well, it seems you dont even learn from clear lessons...that right-wing media is just leading the far-right around by their noses...and you all seem to THANK them for it and demand more :rolleyes:
 

cpwill

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Executed by Capitol Police for trespassing... and that's what she deserved?
Yup. The question isn't that she died in an attempt to use violence and coercion to overthrow the Constitution; it's why more of them didn't. Ultimately only their own failure to achieve their tactical objectives kept us from having to wipe them out.
 

Ouroboros

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Their plan was to stop the steal.

The fact that they were incompetent doesn't mean it wasn't an insurrection.

The correct context of insurrection is not just to disrupt legal authority; it is to usurp it. Since there’s no evidence that the rioters had any plan to seize power, the use of the term “insurrection” falsifies the history.
 

Ouroboros

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Awwww, how sad. You are so beleaguered on an Internet forum. And you are wrong...your paranoia and blind bias serve you very poorly. Quadrupling down wont fix it.


Sure, let's see CNN saying that Sicknick was killed by being beaten with a fire extinguisher...which was your claim that you said was published for days, even weeks, after 1/6. Dont go moving the goal posts...you want to keep going here, stick to the actual subject. All I'm aware of is fake news right-wing media publishing and prolonging that narrative...which you apparently bought into. Well, it seems you dont even learn from clear lessons...that right-wing media is just leading the far-right around by their noses...and you all seem to THANK them for it and demand more :rolleyes:

Speaking of being led around by the nose, you forgot to answer my question: are you currently claiming that the media handled the rumor of Sicknick’s death responsibly, based on your memories of the January 6 aftermath?

You’re not paranoid when the enemy is so manifestly real that you can hear the Mad Libs breathing through their mouths as they watch CNN.
 

Lursa

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Speaking of being led around by the nose, you forgot to answer my question: are you currently claiming that the media handled the rumor of Sicknick’s death responsibly, based on your memories of the January 6 aftermath?

I didnt forget...you didnt honestly answer mine about what you were basing your 'memories' of 1/6 on. There were a few you never answered.

You’re not paranoid when the enemy is so manifestly real that you can hear the Mad Libs breathing through their mouths as they watch CNN.
Wow, there's a whole lot of angry, triggered failure in your post. It's not even coherent. And you've been unable to deny that you were suckered in by the right-wing fake news you watch.
 

NolanVoyd

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The correct context of insurrection is not just to disrupt legal authority; it is to usurp it. Since there’s no evidence that the rioters had any plan to seize power, the use of the term “insurrection” falsifies the history.
Utter fricken nonsense.

You simply don't understand the definition.

The insurectionists had a plan to "stop the steal", i.e. prevent the Congress from certifying the election results, and seating the winner.

That is an insurection.

An insurection need not be successful, the perprators need not be intelligent, or even competent, to be an insurection.

In fact had it been successful it would have been the first coup in American history, not just the first insurection in American history.

Thank God they were a bunch of disorganized morons.

But seriously guy.

Just stop.

Definitions of words matter.
 

Grim17

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Yup. The question isn't that she died in an attempt to use violence and coercion to overthrow the Constitution; it's why more of them didn't. Ultimately only their own failure to achieve their tactical objectives kept us from having to wipe them out.

That narrative is a manufactured falsehood and you damned well know it.

Can't you just admit that you approve of the execution of your political opponents? Because that is precisely what you are advocating for. Murdering the opposition is a central tenet to every communist government that's ever existed, which is exactly what those on the left are trying to usher in.

.
 

NolanVoyd

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That narrative is a manufactured falsehood and you damned well know it.

Can't you just admit that you approve of the execution of your political opponents? Because that is precisely what you are advocating for. Murdering the opposition is a central tenet to every communist government that's ever existed, which is exactly what those on the left are trying to usher in.

.
Dude she was smashing in a barricaded door and climbing through during an insurection at the capital.
 

Grim17

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Dude she was smashing in a barricaded door and climbing through during an insurection at the capital.

That is not a death penalty offense. She did not threaten the physical safety of that officer and she was not armed with a weapon.

.
 

cpwill

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That narrative is a manufactured falsehood and you damned well know it.

It is not - though the excuses, which started on/about Jan 7/8 certainly are.

Can't you just admit that you approve of the execution of your political opponents? Because that is precisely what you are advocating for.

Nope. :) I generally support the suppression of violent mobs - whether they are attacking cities or the peaceful transfer of power. The former because of my instinct to protect victims and peaceful exchange, the latter because of both that instinct and my oath to defend the Constitution from all it's enemies, both foreign and domestic. Babbitt took a similar oath, but, then instead joined the latter group. :( The person who made the decisions that left to her death was her. She can have my sympathy for that, but I'll not trade in my honesty or my values. As a conservative, it's embarrassing and tragic how many of those on the right turned out not to see those as barriers when it came to the all-important need to serve Trump :(

Murdering the opposition is a central tenet to every communist government that's ever existed, which is exactly what those on the left are trying to usher in.
How many of these murder-commies do you know in real life, Grim?
 
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Ouroboros

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I didnt forget...you didnt honestly answer mine about what you were basing your 'memories' of 1/6 on. There were a few you never answered.


Wow, there's a whole lot of angry, triggered failure in your post. It's not even coherent. And you've been unable to deny that you were suckered in by the right-wing fake news you watch.

Why would I admit being “suckered” when
you’re the one being led by the nose by Mad Lib media?
The response is perfectly coherent to anyone paying attention. You accused me of being paranoid, which you could not prove,and I responded with a take on the phrase, “you’re not paranoid if you have real enemies.” How does anyone not know this?
 

Ouroboros

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Utter fricken nonsense.

You simply don't understand the definition.

The insurectionists had a plan to "stop the steal", i.e. prevent the Congress from certifying the election results, and seating the winner.

That is an insurection.

An insurection need not be successful, the perprators need not be intelligent, or even competent, to be an insurection.

In fact had it been successful it would have been the first coup in American history, not just the first insurection in American history.

Thank God they were a bunch of disorganized morons.

But seriously guy.

Just stop.

Definitions of words matter.

Context matters more, and you abandon the context of the actual event when you entertain, even as a hypothesis, that the poorly organized, erratically armed rioters had any chance of pulling off a “coup.”
 

Quag

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Context matters more, and you abandon the context of the actual event when you entertain, even as a hypothesis, that the poorly organized, erratically armed rioters had any chance of pulling off a “coup.”
They dont need to have any chance to pull off a coup for it to be an insurrection
 
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