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Why do liberals support drug legalization but favor gun control?

PricklySponge said:
If the general populace of a state wish to have thier right to bear arms abolished in an effort to clean the streets of gun crime, that is their choice.
Typical gun hater logic. Arrest the guns and allow the dangerous criminals to go free. Why not take the dangerous criminals off of the streets? You know the people that do not obey gun bans.
 
Typical gun hater logic. Arrest the guns and allow the dangerous criminals to go free. Why not take the dangerous criminals off of the streets? You know the people that do not obey gun bans.

This is non-logic. Why not take the dangerous criminals off the streets? Because of that same piece of paper you keep defending your right to buy guns with, The Constitution. We can't just abduct people we deem "dangerous criminals" and put them in jail for an inderterminate amount of time. The second amendment does not say that we must make guns easy to get or that we must allow the sale of assault weapons. To me gun control is just making sure the wrong people dont get guns, not banning guns alltogether.
 
OdgenTugbyGlub said:
This is non-logic. Why not take the dangerous criminals off the streets? Because of that same piece of paper you keep defending your right to buy guns with, The Constitution. We can't just abduct people we deem "dangerous criminals" and put them in jail for an inderterminate amount of time.
I think you are stretching here, by taking criminals off of the streets, most people mean by lawful arrest after the commission of a crime, this seems like an attempt to discredit the poster.
The second amendment does not say that we must make guns easy to get or that we must allow the sale of assault weapons. To me gun control is just making sure the wrong people dont get guns, not banning guns alltogether.
Actually, the second amendment does not agree with the above statement "........the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed", gun control does not hamper the criminal; ever hear of a filed gun, a smooth bore barrell, the "psst...come hear" guy, all of these factors render gun control worthless. Finally, there is no such thing as an "assault weapon" that is a created legal term, the classes of small arms fire are; Rifle,handgun,shotgun; these are either semi-automatic(one round per pull) Automatic(hold trigger for continuos fire), or burst fire. Assault rifles subscribe to the burst fire category and are most certainly not "assualt weapons" any representative who uses the term assualt weapon is already discredited in speaking about controlling firearms since they obviously don't know much about them.
 
OdgenTugbyGlub said:
To me gun control is just making sure the wrong people dont get guns, not banning guns alltogether.
How many dangerous criminals has the background check law taken off of the streets of America after they committed another felony by attempting to purchase a gun?

If a person is to dangerous to be trusted with a right why do gun haters want these people out of prison?
 
How many dangerous criminals has the background check law taken off of the streets of America after they committed another felony by attempting to purchase a gun?

If a person is to dangerous to be trusted with a right why do gun haters want these people out of prison?

We come back, again, to that oh so important piece of paper, the Constitution. It would be a gross violation of someones constitutional rights if we arrested them for wanting to own a gun. Whether you think they will do something untoward with a gun or not, you can't throw them in jail before they commit a crime. Justice does not deal in possiblity, only fact and the fact is there is nothing to charge these people with.
 
"To me, this position seems hypocritical. Those that support legalization of marijuana often say that its illegality is what causes the problems, and that we create a bigger problem by making them illegal, causing a rise of the black market (I agree with this, btw.) However, the same people also say that ownership of guns should be illegal. But wouldn't making gun ownership illegal cause the same thing, with a black market for guns instead of drugs? And since the black market has an obvious crime affiliation, the guns wouldn't disappear; they'd just end up in the hands of criminals. So why do liberals support gun control when they also favor decriminalization of drugs?"- Julius Caesar


The fact that people will keep doing it is not a logical reason to decriminalize something. People will keep robbing banks and breaking every other law we have too. That doesn't mean we should overturn all laws.

I think liberals are for legalizing drugs because it "makes people feel good" and that is the extent to which liberals think. But when it comes to guns, those might be used to hurt OTHERS, so set aside any annoying Constitutional considerations or the notion of actually expecting your people to be responsible for their own actions, or the notion of correctly identifying the source of the problem (the behavior, not the weapon). Let's just criminalize anything where people might actually have to rely on their own judgement.


Your "black market" point is true. If you base your position on either of these two issues on the "black market" point, you must also support the parallel side on the other issue. I think liberals are dead wrong on guns and largely wrong about drugs, though I very much sympathize with the Libertarian "government get out of my business" sentiment most drug legalization advocates promote.

There is more to consider than the black market point on drugs... Why, of all the important things this government has on its plate, should it set aside time and resources to provide the public yet another way to poison its mind and body?
 
OdgenTugbyGlub said:
It would be a gross violation of someones constitutional rights if we arrested them for wanting to own a gun.
First off like all gun haters you mis-quoted me. See you are saying”wanting to own a gun”. I posted “attempting to purchase a gun”. This means the felon filled out the required paperwork to purchase a gun. While doing this paperwork the felon did not tell the truth. At the bottom of the required paperwork the purchaser signing it is stating all of the above information is correct. So see gun hater the background check does not remove dangerous criminals from the streets. The fact that a felon or as the gun haters like to call them dangerous criminals attempted to purchase a gun is ground s to arrest that felon.

So it is clear you may not know what you are talking about in regard to purchasing a firearm.
 
First off like all gun haters you mis-quoted me. See you are saying”wanting to own a gun”. I posted “attempting to purchase a gun”. This means the felon filled out the required paperwork to purchase a gun. While doing this paperwork the felon did not tell the truth. At the bottom of the required paperwork the purchaser signing it is stating all of the above information is correct. So see gun hater the background check does not remove dangerous criminals from the streets. The fact that a felon or as the gun haters like to call them dangerous criminals attempted to purchase a gun is ground s to arrest that felon.

So it is clear you may not know what you are talking about in regard to purchasing a firearm

As I have not been legally allowed to purchase a firearm yet (though I plan to out of college so there goes your "gun hater" lable.) I have no practical experience with this process. And you're really stretching when you say I have mis-quoted you; your nit-picking when we both know that "attempting to buy a gun" and "wanting to buy a gun" we're interchangable in the context. But still, the most you could do is jail the person who dishonestly filled out the application for a period of a few months and fine them. Congrats, you have solved nothing. Attempting to buy a gun, even if you are a felon, doesnt equate to commiting a violent crime and as such you can't jail them like they did. The background check is not MEANT to remove "dangerous criminals" from the streets, its meant to keep the questionables from buying a firearm. I'm sure if you really want a new gun you can wait a week for the background check to go through buddy, I know i'll wait for it.
 
OdgenTugbyGlub said:
And you're really stretching when you say I have mis-quoted you; your nit-picking when we both know that "attempting to buy a gun" and "wanting to buy a gun" we're interchangable in the context.
You did it and now you are angry because you have been called on it.
OdgenTugbyGlub said:
Congrats, you have solved nothing. Attempting to buy a gun, even if you are a felon, doesnt equate to commiting a violent crime and as such you can't jail them like they did.
Well once again you may wish to do some reading. The person committed a crime by attempting to purchase a gun. The fact that a person cannot pass a background check means they have been convicted in the past of a dangerous felony crime.
So now to anger you even more. Once this is found out during the process of attempting to purchase a gun the dangerous criminal is allowed to go free.
OdgenTugbyGlub said:
The background check is not MEANT to remove "dangerous criminals" from the streets, its meant to keep the questionables from buying a firearm.
We know this, the background check allows dangerous criminals to go free after they have committed yet another felony. Face it , it is a stupid law.
OdgenTugbyGlub said:
I'm sure if you really want a new gun you can wait a week for the background check to go through buddy, I know i'll wait for it.
You demonstrate your ignorance of the law again.
 
You did it and now you are angry because you have been called on it.
I am irritated because your being a beligerent dick and you insist on harping on this even though you can clearly see my meaning.

Well once again you may wish to do some reading. The person committed a crime by attempting to purchase a gun. The fact that a person cannot pass a background check means they have been convicted in the past of a dangerous felony crime.
So now to anger you even more. Once this is found out during the process of attempting to purchase a gun the dangerous criminal is allowed to go free.

Let me direct you to another part of my post, one you seem to have missed.
me said:
still, the most you could do is jail the person who dishonestly filled out the application for a period of a few months and fine them.
Go ahead and do it, its not going to solve anything, and anything more is a violation of the constitution.

We know this, the background check allows dangerous criminals to go free after they have committed yet another felony. Face it , it is a stupid law.
You can't arrest someone for a crime you think they are going to commit. Make penalties steeper for falsely filling out an application if you want, I would be fine with that, but imprisonment without crime is bullshit no matter how you cut it.


You demonstrate your ignorance of the law again.
Please oh wise one, enlighten me, do I NOT have to wait for my background check to go through before I get my gun?

(BTW, thanks for dropping the "gun hater" lable ;) )
 
OdgenTugbyGlub said:
You can't arrest someone for a crime you think they are going to commit.
Listen up gun hater this person would have committed a crime simply by filling out the paperwork and placing false information on it. The background check allows dangerous criminals to go free after committing another felony.
 
Listen up gun hater this person would have committed a crime simply by filling out the paperwork and placing false information on it. The background check allows dangerous criminals to go free after committing another felony.
:sigh:

I wasn't refering to that "reading comprehension hater". I said you couldn't arrest a person for the fact that you THINK they are going to commit a violent crime with the gun they are trying to purchase. I did NOT say they couldn't be arrested for lying about their criminal record on the application.

ONCE AGAIN:

me said:
Let me direct you to another part of my post, one you seem to have missed.

me said:
still, the most you could do is jail the person who dishonestly filled out the application for a period of a few months and fine them.

Go ahead and do it, its not going to solve anything, and anything more is a violation of the constitution.

I don't like to go so negative, but jesus are you retarded or something?
 
OdgenTugbyGlub said:
I said you couldn't arrest a person for the fact that you THINK they are going to commit a violent crime with the gun they are trying to purchase.
Now the gun hater must throw in the word intent. This is not even the question. It is just the gun haters way of disrupting a post they have lost the argument in.
The crime committed by a felon attempting to purchase a firearm is lying on the paperwork. Nothing more, nothing less. And you may wish to check up on the sentence they can get.

You have shown your ignorance of the law pertaining to purchasing firearms and you are now angry.
 
Now the gun hater must throw in the word intent. This is not even the question. It is just the gun haters way of disrupting a post they have lost the argument in.
The crime committed by a felon attempting to purchase a firearm is lying on the paperwork. Nothing more, nothing less. And you may wish to check up on the sentence they can get.

You have shown your ignorance of the law pertaining to purchasing firearms and you are now angry.

You sir, are a complete and utter moron. Either you are desperatly searching for anyway out of a real debate or you have a strange disease that prevents you from reading anything but what you want to read. I will put this up ONE more time.

me said:
Let me direct you to another part of my post, one you seem to have missed.

me said:
still, the most you could do is jail the person who dishonestly filled out the application for a period of a few months and fine them.

Go ahead and do it, its not going to solve anything, and anything more is a violation of the constitution.

I am NOW angry because I could have a more intelligent conversation with my cat and I am beggining to feel like I'm wasting my time. Begone you buffoon.

And I love the way you talk like your on a stage infront of hundreds of supporters revealing a great evil. Keep on having delusions of grandeur, I'm sure they'll sustain you when you finally crack.

(And BTW, since your such a dick about this sort of thing, I never mentioned intent.)
 
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OdgenTugbyGlub said:
You can't arrest someone for a crime you think they are going to commit. Make penalties steeper for falsely filling out an application if you want, I would be fine with that, but imprisonment without crime is bullshit no matter how you cut it.
Here gun hater is your post. Now gun hater you claim “You can't arrest someone for a crime you think they are going to commit.” this is called intent. I never said you could arrest them for intent.
OdgenTugbyGlub said:
but imprisonment without crime is bullshit no matter how you cut it.
Without a crime? Lying on the paperwork is the crime! There is no need to even mention intent or as you say “You can't arrest someone for a crime you think they are going to commit.”
OdgenTugbyGlub said:
(And BTW, since your such a dick about this sort of thing, I never mentioned intent.)
Gee gun hater you may wish to read the above post and quote.
 
Here gun hater is your post. Now gun hater you claim “You can't arrest someone for a crime you think they are going to commit.” this is called intent. I never said you could arrest them for intent.

And here dipshit, is the crux of the issue. Its not intent, you would be arresting some one on intuition. "Oh, they are a violent criminal! They will commit a crime with this gun! Arrest them!" Thats not intent. If i said "You can't arrest someone because they WANT TO COMMIT A CRIME", that would be intent. I am not speaking about the persons intent, I am speaking about your assumptions about the person.

Without a crime? Lying on the paperwork is the crime! There is no need to even mention intent or as you say “You can't arrest someone for a crime you think they are going to commit.”

Now I'll get into intent. I INTENDED for you to understand that I was refering to the idea expressed in the paragraph not what you WANTED to be talking about. I have acknowledged that falsifing an application is a crime. You want to "take these dangerous criminals off the streets" for trying to buy a gun. Ok, fine. Try and do it through steeper penalties for falsifying the application, not on intuition. Perhaps if you go read the dialogue we had together you would grasp the concepts I am trying to convey.

Gee gun hater you may wish to read the above post and quote.

Gee dipshit, you might want to go back to ****ing your sister and leave the normals alone. Your mind is so dulled by all the gunpoweder you snort you can't even recognize simple irony.
 
OdgenTugbyGlub said:
Its not intent, you would be arresting some one on intuition. "Oh, they are a violent criminal! They will commit a crime with this gun! Arrest them!" Thats not intent. If i said "You can't arrest someone because they WANT TO COMMIT A CRIME", that would be intent. I am not speaking about the persons intent, I am speaking about your assumptions about the person.
The crime is falsely filling out the paperwork. It is called lying.
This is just your lame way of mudding the issue now.

Here gun hater I pulled up the form you fill out when you purchase a firearm. This is what it states:
UNDER THE PENALTIES OF PERJURY, I declare that I have examined this application and the documents submitted in support thereof, and to the best of my knowledge and belief it is true, correct and complete.
 
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Your a ****ing retard. I acknowledged that this was a crime. Your ****ing stupid. I said you could imprison and fine someone for this. You can't ****ing read. I won't reply again.
 
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