Why do homophobes disbelieve in straight allies?

[Kali]

“So it makes sense to me that the hate/dislike is based on fear due to that religion which is fear based to start with.” - Kali

Perhaps you could show us in the Bible where all of the “fear” comes from and how that translates into “fear” and “dislike” for gay folks.

Hon, read the OT. Nuff Said

 

[winston53660]

I have shared my own Christian beliefs with her and I have tried to be very honest but very respectful at the same time. I genuinely like Tiffany and only wish the best for her and her partner and I honestly do not have any desire to offend her.

What really surprises me about some of our conversations is not that I would talk with her but that she would actively engage in conversation with me regarding this subject knowing what my beliefs are. I have been called so many names due to my beliefs that I’m actually surprised when someone is able to engage me in a rather frank conversation about such a passionate subject and still refer to me as “Hon” (down here in the South that’s short for “honey”, ya’ll) that I can’t help but be taken aback somewhat..

You are not exactly on an even playing field here with this employee of this hotel you are staying at.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Huh? You do not think hell exsist?

You simply cannot toss out comments like "People against same sex marriage aren't homophobes." Because you do not know all people who feel that way and why they are haters.

I suggest you get back to me when you can speak in truth. Thanks

The opposite is also true. You cannot toss out blanket comments like "people against same sex marriage ARE homophobes." You do not know that all people who feel that way DO hate.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Most main stream religions are fear based to start with: believe or you are going to a very bad place to be tormented forever and ever and ever..

So it makes sense to me that the hate/dislike is based on fear due to that religion which is fear based to start with.

There is no hell in my religion and my beliefs are not based on fear. Most people I know who are religious are similar, regardless of whether they are pro- or anti-GM. There are religious fundamentalists who see religion as fear and punishment based. but I have little use for those folks.

 

[Kali]

The opposite is also true. You cannot toss out blanket comments like "people against same sex marriage ARE homophobes." You do not know that all people who feel that way DO hate.

Which is why I use words like most, probably, etc.. Did you miss those or are you trying to defend those that should not be defended?

 

[Kali]

There is no hell in my religion and my beliefs are not based on fear. Most people I know who are religious are similar, regardless of whether they are pro- or anti-GM. There are religious fundamentalists who see religion as fear and punishment based. but I have little use for those folks.

Well good for you.. I never figured you one to defend bigots but whatever.

And I stand by my post: most main stream religions are fear based.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Which is why I use words like most, probably, etc.. Did you miss those or are you trying to defend those that should not be defended?

I disagree with the term "most". I think that most people who are opposed to GM, do so for moral reasons, or are just ignorant to the issue. A minority are folks who are bigotted. I can name you lots of folks at DP who have presented themselves as anti-GM. I could only name a handful of those who I would consider bigotted. Neither BD or digsbe are on that list.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Well good for you.. I never figured you one to defend bigots but whatever.

Don't get snippy. I'm not defending bigots. I'm defending those falsely accused of being bigots.

And I stand by my post: most main stream religions are fear based.

And I stand by my post that they are not. I guess we'll just have to disagree on this.

 

[Kali]

I was not being snippy and with that? I am out of this thread.

BTW, I was not speaking on a personal level and what I think of other posters. That is part of the damn problem!


Well of course so and so is soooooooooooo goddamn nice that they cannot be a homophobe! This is the problem and some people do not understand!

It is like back in the day saying well you know I got me some slaves and love em. I do not hate black folks. Give me a damn break!

 

[CriticalThought]

It's not really fair to argue that everyone who follows a religion does so out of fear of God or fear of the consequences of not obeying God. As I said before, a lot of people don't view hell as fire and brimstone but as an eternity of alienation and separation from God. In a way, it is their love of God that drives them to condemn sin.

 

[Gardener]

I disagree with the term "most". I think that most people who are opposed to GM, do so for moral reasons, or are just ignorant to the issue. A minority are folks who are bigotted. I can name you lots of folks at DP who have presented themselves as anti-GM. I could only name a handful of those who I would consider bigotted. Neither BD or digsbe are on that list.

It is the nature of the "morality" that is the real issue here, as what people are representing aren't true morals, but simply the dogmatic adherence to ancient social mores. There is a difference lost on many between morality and social convention, as morality can be determined by reason, whereas social convention is a construct often based upon arbitrary standards that have nothing to do with morality and everything to do with establishing prejudice based upon conformity.

At such a time when people can explain WHY homosexuality is immoral, and do so by building an actual logical argument, all they are indulging in is an appeal to popularity and/or authority. This does not necessarily indicate hatred, but it does indicate prejudice since they cannot justify their point of view in any way OTHER than claims that since other people hold these views, those on the short end of the stick must remain that way.

 

[middleagedgamer]

Nowhere there does it mention hate.

Then I suggest you also look up the word "aversion."

 

[Paschendale]

You can mince words all you like, but when someone takes direct action to hinder another person on "moral grounds", they're hating. If you go the polls and vote to keep gays from marrying and enjoying the same rights you do, you hate them. You don't have to feel sharp, burning anger. You're screwing with the lives of people you've never met. That makes you a jackass.

Hypothetical you, btw. Not you in particular.

 

[molten_dragon]

Then I suggest you also look up the word "aversion."

Okay, I did that too, and here's the definition:

1. obsolete : the act of turning away

2.
a : a feeling of repugnance toward something with a desire to avoid or turn from it <regards drunkenness with aversion>
b : a settled dislike
c : a tendency to extinguish a behavior or to avoid a thing or situation and especially a usually pleasurable one because it is or has been associated with a noxious stimulus

I still don't see any mention of hate there.

 

[CriticalThought]

I still don't see any mention of hate there.

I'm guess a "settled dislike" and a "repugnance toward" are synonyms for love.

This is getting pretty ridiculous, not that this thread wasn't already. Hate, by definition, is an emotion of dislike. Can we move on from playing the semantic games now?

 

[Singularity]

Wrong. I don't believe because I fear hell. I was no coerced into believing. Why should someone be scared of a place they don't think exists? People against same sex marriage aren't homophobes. Religion isn't based on fear. There is no hate in believing homosexuality is morally wrong and not marriage. I don't hate gay people, in fact I'm friends with several.

Yeah, i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that no, you are not friends with any homosexual people. I honestly wish that you anti-gay marriage folks would drop the "oh, I have friends that are gay" charade, because you are fooling no one.

You may have acquaintances that are gay - Bob that works a few offices down, for example, or the nice lady you say 'hello' to at the post office - but beyond office business or a quick passing, you don't really hang out with any of them. In fact, i'd say you go out of your way to avoid them on a personal level. You see, if you were really friends with any people who happen to be homosexual, then you'd treat them the same as any other friend. Maybe you would go out to dinner with them and their partner once a week, or have them over for a party, or just to hang out on the weekends, or anything else that you and your friends do. The point is, you'd be spending a lot of time getting to know one another, and accepting of each other. And friends tend to support one another - that's why they are called 'friends'. If you were really friends with someone who happens to be homosexual, then you'd have much different views of homosexuality and same-sex marriage, because you would see that the only difference in who they love is gender. You'd probably even be attending their wedding when they get married to their partner, and wishing them the best - the same as you would do to any heterosexual friend, because they are a friend, after all.

However, since you have no problem with the hypothetical homosexual friendship, here's the real challenge. Get to know someone who is gay that you have some common interest(s) with, and cultivate an actual, real-world friendship. Lay off the 'homosexuality is morally wrong' and 'i'm against same sex marriage' crap, because that will ensure that no friendship will develop; instead, spend a little time with them, learn from them, exchange some ideas, and get to know each other - you know, do what friends do. When you do that, I guarantee that you won't be spouting off about how you are against homosexuality, or how you think same-sex marriage is wrong. You can take that to the bank.

 

[The Baron]

“Hon, read the OT. Nuff Said” - Kali

You mean when we get a promise of a Redeemer in the OT? And then in the New Testament the promise is fulfilled and He actually redeems us!

That is no cause for fear but for hope and gratitude.

“And I stand by my post: most main stream religions are fear based.” - Kali

That’s because you don’t know what you’re talking about--unless, of course, you mean Muslims. I gotta admit when they go around screaming Allah Akbar! and then go cut the head off some poor jew or infidel or practice terrorism then I gotta admit….that does scare the hell outta me.

But, hey, they’re only one religion…not most.

“Well of course so and so is soooooooooooo goddamn nice that they cannot be a homophobe! This is the problem and some people do not understand!

It is like back in the day saying well you know I got me some slaves and love em. I do not hate black folks. Give me a damn break! “ - Kali

Guess that whole thing about common-courtesy, simple-decency and a little-respect did go as far as I’d hoped.

Hope I get brownie points for tryin’

"I was not being snippy and with that? I am out of this thread." - Kali

Well, of course, you are my dear. It's what you do at any challenge. Throw your hands up and walk away since you are wholly incapable of defending a position.

 

[Hicup]

Which begs the question what is a true homophobe? Is it guys like Blackdog, or me, or Oscar, or Tex? I mean really? Isn't it meant more as a label, and a rhetorical one at that? If you want me to buy into some label then explain to me how one can oppose homosexual special rights, and NOT be a homophobe?

What are the requirements to pass the homophobe test?


Tim-

 

[The Baron]

"Which begs the question what is a true homophobe? Is it guys like Blackdog, or me, or Oscar, or Tex? I mean really? Isn't it meant more as a label, and a rhetorical one at that? If you want me to buy into some label then explain to me how one can oppose homosexual special rights, and NOT be a homophobe?

What are the requirements to pass the homophobe test?" - Hicup

I think if you are not able to treat human being (gay, straights, whatever) the same way you would treat others, then I think you may have some issue.

If you are unable to treat people like the child-of-God that they truly are then you've got issue. And if you use the Bible to justify condemning or prosecuting gay folks then you simply don't understand what the Bible says.


But I think if you simply disagree with homosexuality for religious grounds then I think if's timeto remind those on the left about tolerance.

 

[Black Dog]

Yeah, i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that no, you are not friends with any homosexual people. I honestly wish that you anti-gay marriage folks would drop the "oh, I have friends that are gay" charade, because you are fooling no one.

You may have acquaintances that are gay - Bob that works a few offices down, for example, or the nice lady you say 'hello' to at the post office - but beyond office business or a quick passing, you don't really hang out with any of them. In fact, i'd say you go out of your way to avoid them on a personal level. You see, if you were really friends with any people who happen to be homosexual, then you'd treat them the same as any other friend. Maybe you would go out to dinner with them and their partner once a week, or have them over for a party, or just to hang out on the weekends, or anything else that you and your friends do. The point is, you'd be spending a lot of time getting to know one another, and accepting of each other. And friends tend to support one another - that's why they are called 'friends'. If you were really friends with someone who happens to be homosexual, then you'd have much different views of homosexuality and same-sex marriage, because you would see that the only difference in who they love is gender. You'd probably even be attending their wedding when they get married to their partner, and wishing them the best - the same as you would do to any heterosexual friend, because they are a friend, after all.

However, since you have no problem with the hypothetical homosexual friendship, here's the real challenge. Get to know someone who is gay that you have some common interest(s) with, and cultivate an actual, real-world friendship. Lay off the 'homosexuality is morally wrong' and 'i'm against same sex marriage' crap, because that will ensure that no friendship will develop; instead, spend a little time with them, learn from them, exchange some ideas, and get to know each other - you know, do what friends do. When you do that, I guarantee that you won't be spouting off about how you are against homosexuality, or how you think same-sex marriage is wrong. You can take that to the bank.

This whole statement is a load of crap. Not only have I had and do have friends that are gay, I lived in his house as a friend and guest. We have been friends for over 20 years.

Unless you are a mind reader or have some spacial time travel ability to read into Digsbe's life your statement is just conjecture based on hot air.

 

[CriticalThought]

Which begs the question what is a true homophobe? Is it guys like Blackdog, or me, or Oscar, or Tex? I mean really? Isn't it meant more as a label, and a rhetorical one at that? If you want me to buy into some label then explain to me how one can oppose homosexual special rights, and NOT be a homophobe?

What are the requirements to pass the homophobe test?


Tim-

In a pathological sesne, it is an irrational fear or aversoin towards homosexuals.

 

[molten_dragon]

I'm guess a "settled dislike" and a "repugnance toward" are synonyms for love.

This is getting pretty ridiculous, not that this thread wasn't already. Hate, by definition, is an emotion of dislike. Can we move on from playing the semantic games now?

I'm playing stupid games because your OP was ridiculous and shouldn't be taken seriously.

 

[Singularity]

This whole statement is a load of crap. Not only have I had and do have friends that are gay, I lived in his house as a friend and guest. We have been friends for over 20 years.

Unless you are a mind reader or have some spacial time travel ability to read into Digsbe's life your statement is just conjecture based on hot air.

And your views are what? Do you believe homosexuality is morally wrong? Are you one of those 'marriage is between a man and a woman only' types? Because if so, then you can stop with the 'I have a gay friend' defense.

Oh, i'm sure you may have an acquaintance who is homosexual - who doesn't nowadays? But if your views are really that homosexuality is wrong, and you are an ardent opponent of same sex marriage, then your homosexual 'friend' doesn't know this. In fact, i'd say you probably never discuss the issue, or he honestly believes that you support his partnership and think that his lifestyle is perfectly acceptable. What most of you anti-gay marriage and 'homosexuality is wrong' types do is try and paint yourselves as folks who have gay friends that you hang out with, and that your condemnation of their lifestyle and opposition to them getting married is mere disagreement or difference of opinion. You can spare us that silliness, because we all know it isn't the least bit true. If you had a 'gay friend' - a real friend, not an acquaintance - then you wouldn't be carrying on about how the lifestyle is wrong, or how you don't want them to be happy in their own marriage.

And if you do have a homosexual acquaintance that knows your position on homosexuality, rest assured that you aren't friends, and i'm quite sure you don't care for him much, either.

 

[Black Dog]

And your views are what? Do you believe homosexuality is morally wrong? Are you one of those 'marriage is between a man and a woman only' types? Because if so, then you can stop with the 'I have a gay friend' defense.

It's not a defense for anything. It is however a simple fact.

Yes I believe it is between a man and woman. It has little to do with anything. I also have friends and family who are liberal. I have family who is gay who again I love and like allot. Do I approve of his life style? No. Does he tease me about it? Yes. Do we really care one way or the other? No.

Oh, i'm sure you may have an acquaintance who is homosexual - who doesn't nowadays? But if your views are really that homosexuality is wrong, and you are an ardent opponent of same sex marriage, then your homosexual 'friend' doesn't know this. In fact, i'd say you probably never discuss the issue, or he honestly believes that you support his partnership and think that his lifestyle is perfectly acceptable. What most of you anti-gay marriage and 'homosexuality is wrong' types do is try and paint yourselves as folks who have gay friends that you hang out with, and that your condemnation of their lifestyle and opposition to them getting married is mere disagreement or difference of opinion. You can spare us that silliness, because we all know it isn't the least bit true. If you had a 'gay friend' - a real friend, not an acquaintance - then you wouldn't be carrying on about how the lifestyle is wrong, or how you don't want them to be happy in their own marriage.

Again you are not a mind reader and have no time machine. Your statement is nothing more than a senseless rant based on hot air.

And if you do have a homosexual acquaintance that knows your position on homosexuality, rest assured that you aren't friends, and i'm quite sure you don't care for him much, either.

Oh I am so sorry. I did not realize you were the anointed one King Homosexual, and speak for all gays. :roll:

 

[Gardener]

Oh I am so sorry. I did not realize you were the anointed one King Homosexual, and speak for all gays. :roll:

Why would you assume that a person supporting Gay rights is necessarily homosexual?