Why do gender personalities exist? (1 Viewer)

[Patriotic Voter]

When I was growing up, men wearing jewelry and the color pink was unheard of. Ireland is famous for men wearing kilts because they do not wear skirts anywhere else. Even there, males have no choice on skirt styles; they are all kilts. Even today, we never see boys dressing up in makeup or dresses. No men's shoes are fancy unless you count the shiny pairs sometimes worn with tuxedos. Conversely, you never see women wearing tuxedos or similar suits; the closest they come is "pant suits" without ties or collars - which men never wear.

Look at their hairstyles too. How many men have you seen with one braid or ponytail, or bun in the back? How many women have you seen with dreadlocks (a common style for football players) instead of one big braid? Then there are the fancy updos. I understand afros being favored by the male gender: it requires shaving both sides of the head. But why don't guys with long hair (which used to be a rarity outside Polynesia) go beyond dreadlocks and ponytails? Whey don't guys who never trim their beards get creative with them?

Then there is the type of jewelry. Men who wear earrings never get dangling styles. I had never heard of men wearing earrings, necklaces, or bracelets while growing up. I still do not see men wearing bracelets or watches with gemstones.

All of this stuff follows both girls and boys learning to play with specific toys. Soldiers and cars/trucks for boys; stuffed animals and dolls for girls. Why don't both girls and boys play with every kind of toy?

Of course, I am not saying cultures should be like this. It is just totally illogical to teach children, "This is feminine and that is masculine," except for anatomical necessities like bras and swim trunks.

 

[Josie]

When I was growing up, men wearing jewelry and the color pink was unheard of.

We're about the same age. Men wearing earrings and necklaces was very popular when we were growing up.

Ireland is famous for men wearing kilts because they do not wear skirts anywhere else. Even there, males have no choice on skirt styles; they are all kilts. Even today, we never see boys dressing up in makeup or dresses.

Uh, yes we do. Now more than ever.

No men's shoes are fancy unless you count the shiny pairs sometimes worn with tuxedos. Conversely, you never see women wearing tuxedos or similar suits; the closest they come is "pant suits" without ties or collars - which men never wear.

Why do you say "never" when you're posting? You know you're going to be wrong.

Look at their hairstyles too. How many men have you seen with one braid or ponytail, or bun in the back? How many women have you seen with dreadlocks (a common style for football players) instead of one big braid? Then there are the fancy updos. I understand afros being favored by the male gender: it requires shaving both sides of the head. But why don't guys with long hair (which used to be a rarity outside Polynesia) go beyond dreadlocks and ponytails? Whey don't guys who never trim their beards get creative with them?

Then there is the type of jewelry. Men who wear earrings never get dangling styles.

Yes, they do.

I had never heard of men wearing earrings, necklaces, or bracelets while growing up. I still do not see men wearing bracelets or watches with gemstones.

You don't get out much or watch much social media, eh?

 

[Ginger Ale]

I do think we are bound to have male female personalities based on social structure, and the fact that male and female genitalia are identical until the last months of pregnancy. Therefore, the type of junk in the trunk has little to do with the desires we have in regards to style, or type of outer wear.

I think we've come along way, but I still see and hear derogatory comments regarding gender norms. This is a societal problem I think we will be working on for quite some time.

 

[ttwtt78640]

When I was growing up, men wearing jewelry and the color pink was unheard of. Ireland is famous for men wearing kilts because they do not wear skirts anywhere else. Even there, males have no choice on skirt styles; they are all kilts. Even today, we never see boys dressing up in makeup or dresses. No men's shoes are fancy unless you count the shiny pairs sometimes worn with tuxedos. Conversely, you never see women wearing tuxedos or similar suits; the closest they come is "pant suits" without ties or collars - which men never wear.

Look at their hairstyles too. How many men have you seen with one braid or ponytail, or bun in the back? How many women have you seen with dreadlocks (a common style for football players) instead of one big braid? Then there are the fancy updos. I understand afros being favored by the male gender: it requires shaving both sides of the head. But why don't guys with long hair (which used to be a rarity outside Polynesia) go beyond dreadlocks and ponytails? Whey don't guys who never trim their beards get creative with them?

Then there is the type of jewelry. Men who wear earrings never get dangling styles. I had never heard of men wearing earrings, necklaces, or bracelets while growing up. I still do not see men wearing bracelets or watches with gemstones.

All of this stuff follows both girls and boys learning to play with specific toys. Soldiers and cars/trucks for boys; stuffed animals and dolls for girls. Why don't both girls and boys play with every kind of toy?

Of course, I am not saying cultures should be like this. It is just totally illogical to teach children, "This is feminine and that is masculine," except for anatomical necessities like bras and swim trunks.

I’m not sure what you mean by “gender personalities”. You seem to be mainly addressing gender based styles of clothing, jewelry and hair. There are still “gender based norms” in those areas as well as numerous (and thus notable) exceptions to them.

 

[Josie]

I do think we are bound to have male female personalities based on social structure, and the fact that male and female genitalia are identical until the last months of pregnancy. Therefore, the type of junk in the trunk has little to do with the desires we have in regards to style, or type of outer wear.

I think we've come along way, but I still see and hear derogatory comments regarding gender norms. This is a societal problem I think we will be working on for quite some time.

Does "junk in the trunk" have a different definition now? LOL

Male and female genitalia are identical until the last months of pregnancy? I thought people found out the gender of their baby around 20 weeks?

 

[Patriotic Voter]

You don't get out much or watch much social media, eh?

I thought you understood I can't get out much and do not like any social media except message boards.

 

[The Mark]

When I was growing up, men wearing jewelry and the color pink was unheard of. Ireland is famous for men wearing kilts because they do not wear skirts anywhere else. Even there, males have no choice on skirt styles; they are all kilts. Even today, we never see boys dressing up in makeup or dresses. No men's shoes are fancy unless you count the shiny pairs sometimes worn with tuxedos. Conversely, you never see women wearing tuxedos or similar suits; the closest they come is "pant suits" without ties or collars - which men never wear.

Look at their hairstyles too. How many men have you seen with one braid or ponytail, or bun in the back? How many women have you seen with dreadlocks (a common style for football players) instead of one big braid? Then there are the fancy updos. I understand afros being favored by the male gender: it requires shaving both sides of the head. But why don't guys with long hair (which used to be a rarity outside Polynesia) go beyond dreadlocks and ponytails? Whey don't guys who never trim their beards get creative with them?

Then there is the type of jewelry. Men who wear earrings never get dangling styles. I had never heard of men wearing earrings, necklaces, or bracelets while growing up. I still do not see men wearing bracelets or watches with gemstones.

All of this stuff follows both girls and boys learning to play with specific toys. Soldiers and cars/trucks for boys; stuffed animals and dolls for girls. Why don't both girls and boys play with every kind of toy?

Of course, I am not saying cultures should be like this. It is just totally illogical to teach children, "This is feminine and that is masculine," except for anatomical necessities like bras and swim trunks.

I think you need to check your perspective, because while I haven't seen much of what you mention personally, I know that every single thing you mentioned exists and has existed for quite some time.

It's not new.

Moving on to your question about kids, I personally think parents or educators who instruct children which toys to play with based on some notion they have about which toys are masculine and which feminine...well they're wrong.
Telling a kid not to play with something that might hurt them physically, at least until they understand it, depending on the case, makes sense. But that's a different question.

 

[Jkca1]

"males' and females' genitals actually start out the same. You see, just like the internal gonads, the testes and ovaries, developed from the same fetal structure, the external reproductive organs also develop from the same set of tissues. Up until about 2-2.5 months after conception (or fertilization), males and females look the same"

 

[Ginger Ale]

Does "junk in the trunk" have a different definition now? LOL

Male and female genitalia are identical until the last months of pregnancy? I thought people found out the gender of their baby around 20 weeks?

Half way through I believe it's fully noted, I'm not qualified enough to be specific. You're only seeing the development early on.


You can see the penis (so to speak) laying down to form what we call a girl. It starts out the same junk tho. Pardon my crudeness.

 

[Josie]

I thought you understood I can't get out much and do not like any social media except message boards.

And that’s fine. But why make these “never” comments if you actually have no idea what the outside works is like?

 

[ProgressPlease]

As far as I am concerned we have regressed when it comes to gender stereotypes.
When I was growing up gender non-conformity was very cool. Men with long hair and makeup was considered sexy. There was a trend for girls of short hair and ties/men's jackets. There was no talk about labeling any of it. Men could present themselves "femininely" and it did not mean more than a fashion statement. There was no identity language involved.

We seem to have regressed. I know a lot of it has to do with marketing strategies around toys and clothing but there are other reasons as well.

We have people altering their bodies in an attempt to mimic the other sex cosmetically. We have a growing set of labels to categorize people based on how they present themselves or on what personality traits they have - which all must fit a label and are based on stereotypes. I have seen too many adolescents struggle horribly - feeling they absolutely must pick a label.
Societal acceptance of differences and certainly of people presenting themselves however they feel comfortable would be very freeing and in the best interest of kids and young people developing.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

I do think we are bound to have male female personalities based on social structure, and the fact that male and female genitalia are identical until the last months of pregnancy. Therefore, the type of junk in the trunk has little to do with the desires we have in regards to style, or type of outer wear.

Usually an obstetrician can see during the 15th week if the fetus is a boy or a girl. Then everyone goes crazy saying the baby must have a blue or pink nursery instead of one that is blue and pink.

I think we've come along way, but I still see and hear derogatory comments regarding gender norms. This is a societal problem I think we will be working on for quite some time.

The derogatory stuff is mostly focused on transgender people now, but I have a never-ending argument with my mom over wearing shorts in public. "Women your age don't wear shorts." Not people - women. That sounds sexist even if it was not the intent.

 

[Josie]

"males' and females' genitals actually start out the same. You see, just like the internal gonads, the testes and ovaries, developed from the same fetal structure, the external reproductive organs also develop from the same set of tissues. Up until about 2-2.5 months after conception (or fertilization), males and females look the same"

Yes, not the same until the last months of pregnancy. And gender is assigned at conception anyway.

 

[Josie]

Half way through I believe it's fully noted, I'm not qualified enough to be specific. You're only seeing the development early on.


You can see the penis (so to speak) laying down to form what we call a girl. It starts out the same junk tho. Pardon my crudeness.

Yes, but is usually clearly differentiated by 20 weeks, not the last months of pregnancy. Gender is assigned by genetics at conception.

 

[Josie]

Usually an obstetrician can see during the 15th week if the fetus is a boy or a girl. Then everyone goes crazy saying the baby must have a blue or pink nursery instead of one that is blue and pink.

Actually it used to be switched -- blue was more for a girl and pink for a boy.

But not everyone uses those colors. Some like a neutral nursery or green or yellow or purple.

The derogatory stuff is mostly focused on transgender people now, but I have a never-ending argument with my mom over wearing shorts in public. "Women your age don't wear shorts." Not people - women. That sounds sexist even if it was not the intent.

That's sexist and ageist. Wear what you want.

 

[Ginger Ale]

Usually an obstetrician can see during the 15th week if the fetus is a boy or a girl. Then everyone goes crazy saying the baby must have a blue or pink nursery instead of one that is blue and pink.



The derogatory stuff is mostly focused on transgender people now, but I have a never-ending argument with my mom over wearing shorts in public. "Women your age don't wear shorts." Not people - women. That sounds sexist even if it was not the intent.

Yeah, glad you cleared that up and you have my apology for not paying closer attention to when this occurred. The point was not that, it was that we all start out the same, and the need to separate apparel by sex is just societal.

I feel for you about the shorts. I get it for having long hair in my fifties. It should be short for a woman at my age. lol So ageist and sexist.

 

[soylentgreen]

In nature it is the male who displays for the female.

So why would it be that among humans the males want the females to display for them?

 

[BirdinHand]

"males' and females' genitals actually start out the same. You see, just like the internal gonads, the testes and ovaries, developed from the same fetal structure, the external reproductive organs also develop from the same set of tissues. Up until about 2-2.5 months after conception (or fertilization), males and females look the same"

You can sex embryos. It is done today.

That’s 3-5+ cells.

 

[MamboDervish]

Why do gender personalities exist?​

You don't get out enough.

 

[Lisa]

Does "junk in the trunk" have a different definition now? LOL

Male and female genitalia are identical until the last months of pregnancy? I thought people found out the gender of their baby around 20 weeks?

It's about 15-20 weeks when gender becomes physically apparent.

That definition of Junk In The Trunk is very new to me.

Gender personalities exist because human gender is not a black and white binary, but many shades of grey, even among CIS people. LGBTQ people can have just as varied gender personalities as CIS or heterosexual people.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

Actually it used to be switched - blue was more for a girl and pink for a boy.

But not everyone uses those colors. Some like a neutral nursery or green or yellow or purple.

I figured out yellow is the color used if the expecting mom prefers not to know her baby's sex before she gives birth (which still happens).

When was pink a boy color?

That's sexist and ageist. Wear what you want.

I do where what I want to whenever possible. The only reason I have capris at all is my mom requires them. You are right - this crap about "women don't wear shorts" is both sexist and ageist.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

Yeah, glad you cleared that up and you have my apology for not paying closer attention to when this occurred. The point was not that, it was that we all start out the same, and the need to separate apparel by sex is just societal.

I feel for you about the shorts. I get it for having long hair in my fifties. It should be short for a woman at my age. lol So ageist and sexist.

Like I said in the OP, long hair is still mostly a feminine thing (even with more men growing it out now).

 

[Patriotic Voter]

You can see the penis (so to speak) laying down to form what we call a girl. It starts out the same junk though. Pardon my crudeness.

Are you confusing a penis with the embryonic tail? Both girls and boys get them. It is why we usually call the coccyx our tailbone.

 

[Josie]

I figured out yellow is the color used if the expecting mom prefers not to know her baby's sex before she gives birth (which still happens).

Or just because she wants to decorate with yellow.

When was pink a boy color?

I do where what I want to whenever possible. The only reason I have capris at all is my mom requires them. You are right - this crap about "women don't wear shorts" is both sexist and ageist.

Your mom requires them? Wut?

 

[Patriotic Voter]

Or just because she wants to decorate with yellow.

I was referring to the welcome baby stork on congratulations cards and banners. If people do not know whether to get pink or blue for the baby, they get yellow. That has nothing to do with parents choosing yellow for the baby's nursery.

Your mom requires them? What?

You read that correctly. I can wear shorts unless she tells me not to. This is life for people who can't live in their own apartments.