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Why do Christians Ignore Science?

tecoyah

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Not all Christians mind you....I know more than a few that try to fit the pieces together (and do a fair job of it), to make science work WITH the faith. But, I regularly see people , mostly christian, who seem to be in denial of what should be obvious to a thinking mind. I dont want to think the worst.....and am trying not to, but would very much like to hear the reasoning behind so called "Blind Faith", as it makes no sense to me at all.

Thank you in advance for any response.
 

dsg94

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I don't think Christians ignore science in its practical application. They use cars, TVs, medicines, and other things that science has made possible. I'm going to read between the lines and assume that the question is why cant Christians accept evolution as a viable alternative or a part of creation. ????
 

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Christians depend on faith more so than logic for a lot of issues, and when new knowledge comes along they perceive it as an attack on their faith.
Look at how much progress was impeded by the early Catholic Popes because new knowledge didn't fit with what they believed. One of the Popes even came up with the concept of infallibility. The faithful were directed to believe the Pope, no matter what.
It is partially a power struggle. Look at this way, if you have a large congregation supporting you in a lavish lifestyle, and someone comes along with knowledge that might cause an exodus of a substantial portion of the flock you are fleecing, it behooves you to attack the new knowledge, and its messengers, vigorously.
Nearly all primitive societies have legends or stories to help explain the unknown, which they fear, and if they don't have enough modern education, the new knowledge is incomprehensible to them. So it is relatively easy for a talented wordsmith (preacher, pastor, priest, witch doctor) to control and manipulate them.
AND, I think more harm than good is done by trying to force the new knowledge on them. As long as they are happy with their beliefs, and are not harming others, let sleeping dumb dogs lie.
 

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Christians aren't the only ones that ignore science, and many scientists are Christian. You'd have to narrow down the question a bit more.

While H.S. education is good, not everyone receives one. College? Even less!
~15% of all adults 25+ do not have a H.S. degree
~72% of all adults 25+ do not have a college degree

Source: http://factfinder.census.gov/jsp/saff/SAFFInfo.jsp?_pageId=tp5_education

And that's not even speaking to the 'quality' of education. Nor to the large majority of the world's population that is uneducated. So one can't really expect that they not ignore science.

Fortunately, they're being guided to some small degree.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051104/ap_on_sc/vatican_science
Vatican: Faithful Should Listen to Science
By NICOLE WINFIELD, Associated Press Writer Fri Nov 4,10:12 AM ET

VATICAN CITY - A
Vatican cardinal said Thursday the faithful should listen to what secular modern science has to offer, warning that religion risks turning into "fundamentalism" if it ignores scientific reason.
 
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UtahBill

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Cloud9 said:
While H.S. education is good, not everyone receives one. College? Even less!
~15% of all adults 25+ do not have a H.S. degree
~72% of all adults 25+ do not have a college degree

Source: http://factfinder.census.gov/jsp/saff/SAFFInfo.jsp?_pageId=tp5_education

And that's not even speaking to the 'quality' of education. Nor to the large majority of the world's population that is uneducated. So one can't really expect that they not ignore science.

Fortunately, they're being guided to some small degree.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051104/ap_on_sc/vatican_science
Vatican: Faithful Should Listen to Science
By NICOLE WINFIELD, Associated Press Writer Fri Nov 4,10:12 AM ET

VATICAN CITY - A
Vatican cardinal said Thursday the faithful should listen to what secular modern science has to offer, warning that religion risks turning into "fundamentalism" if it ignores scientific reason.
Yep, without enough education, it is hard to see the light even when it is shining in your eyes. It is nice to see that the Catholic Church has changed its tune on science. I would hate to see the next great thinker who happens to be a Catholic have to face torture and being burned at the stake.
 

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Plus a lot of the children are raised in families where they are not allowed to explore and ask questions about their natural curiosity. They are force-fed from day one that god is god and if you question this, you will go to hell. So the poor kids grow up and sometimes have exposureonly to other kids in the same boat. Then, just like viscous cycle cliche, they do it to their kids.
Science is never permitted in the household.
 

UtahBill

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ddoyle00 said:
Plus a lot of the children are raised in families where they are not allowed to explore and ask questions about their natural curiosity. They are force-fed from day one that god is god and if you question this, you will go to hell. So the poor kids grow up and sometimes have exposureonly to other kids in the same boat. Then, just like viscous cycle cliche, they do it to their kids.
Science is never permitted in the household.
My experience is that children in that kind of situation will rebel as soon as they are old enough to see for themselves how close minded their parents are. Some will follow in mom and dad's footsteps, but many will think for themselves eventually, and choose another religion, or no religion.
I have seen a few neighbors over the years who have tried to force feed religion to their kids, and it usually has an undesired result.
 

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Christians do not accept evolution (those that don't) because of the arrogant stance that we did not "come from monkeys". That, and a fear of change in personal beliefs and ways of seeing the world. That being said, the solution is to educate, not to reprimand. People can change under an overwhelming mountain of facts to the contrary, but not if you counter their arguments with insults. This will only cause them to defend their position with yet more fervor. And a head stuck farther under the sands of ignorance.
 

UtahBill

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hiker said:
Christians do not accept evolution (those that don't) because of the arrogant stance that we did not "come from monkeys". That, and a fear of change in personal beliefs and ways of seeing the world. That being said, the solution is to educate, not to reprimand. People can change under an overwhelming mountain of facts to the contrary, but not if you counter their arguments with insults. This will only cause them to defend their position with yet more fervor. And a head stuck farther under the sands of ignorance.
Heard it said once that we should never teach our non-human primates to communicate with us, but if we do we should not tell them that we think we evolved from them. They would be insulted.
It could very well be that we devolved from one particular primate, the Bonobos monkey. They maintain order with lots of sex, not violence.
If we get reincarnated, becoming a Bonobos chimp is what I am hoping for.
 

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Some food for thought....

Here's the stats for adults at low literacy levels.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/edu_lit_adu_at_low_lit_lev

In the U.S. it's 49.6%.

Now take a look at religion in the USA.
http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/rel_rel&int=-1&id=us

So think about it, ~27% of the U.S. population has a college degree, while 73% does not while 49.6% have low literacy levels and 90% have a religious affiliation.

That means that for every 1 American, there are 3 other uneducated Americans (please note that I refrain from equating education to intelligence, which in my experience clearly are not one and the same)

And you expect that Christians (or any other religion) not ignore science?
 

walrus

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I don't think most do. I think a vocal minority has once again managed to paint a silent majority with one great brush. I personally have no trouble reconciling a belief in God with a belief in science. To me, they support one another. Many great scientists who understood far more of the universe than any of us on this forum managed to reconcile their belief in God with their knowledge of science.

Somewhat off topic, but why do we agonize so much over what origin story is told to our children? Have your beliefs about the origins of the universe ever affected your life in any meaningful way - regardless of your belief? I have managed to live 31 years without my belief about the origin of the universe ever once being important to my physical, mental, emotional, economic, or social well-being. Would you be more proud that your kid believes that the Earth is a giant dinner plate suspended on the back of a titanic turtle, yet is a successful human being in his daily life; or that your kid can quote chapter and verse of the origin story that you subscribe to, yet cannot read, write, do basic arithmetic or hold down a job? Origin stories should be at the bottom of our priority list of what to teach our kids while we are still producing kids who can neither make change nor explain in 30 words or less the system of government under which they live.
 

UtahBill

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Cloud9 said:
Some food for thought....

Here's the stats for adults at low literacy levels.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/edu_lit_adu_at_low_lit_lev

In the U.S. it's 49.6%.

Now take a look at religion in the USA.
http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/rel_rel&int=-1&id=us

So think about it, ~27% of the U.S. population has a college degree, while 73% does not while 49.6% have low literacy levels and 90% have a religious affiliation.

That means that for every 1 American, there are 3 other uneducated Americans (please note that I refrain from equating education to intelligence, which in my experience clearly are not one and the same)

And you expect that Christians (or any other religion) not ignore science?
What good is a high literacy rate if all we have to read if propaganda?
Castro improved the literacy rate in Cuba, but only allowed the public to read what he wanted them to know. This isn't Cuba, where what they get is limited and tightly controlled, but the USA where there is tons of biased information that it is next to impossible to sort out.
Besides, most Christians I have discussed the NT with don't seem to know much about it, especially the parts that involve Christ. They know a lot of Paul, tho. So even the non-readers are being spoon fed by their church leaders. It's pathetic, I tell you....:3oops:
 

Cloud9

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I readily acknowledge that point, but before we can even get to addressing the propaganda, at a minimum people have to be literate as the first step in the educational process.
 

walrus

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UtahBill said:
What good is a high literacy rate if all we have to read if propaganda?
It's all propaganda. We are just arguing about whose to use.

utahbill said:
Castro improved the literacy rate in Cuba, but only allowed the public to read what he wanted them to know. This isn't Cuba, where what they get is limited and tightly controlled, but the USA where there is tons of biased information that it is next to impossible to sort out.
I know, ain't freedom wonderful. Yet, somehow you say it as if it's a bad thing. I don't spend a lot of time worrying about what people who are unable to think critically are going to believe, and I am always amazed at the number of people who do spend a great deal of time agonizing over it. You have your beliefs - don't worry about everyone else's. And don't give me this crap about your kids. If you are unable to counter what your kid hears in school with your own instruction you aren't much of a parent.

utahbill said:
Besides, most Christians I have discussed the NT with don't seem to know much about it, especially the parts that involve Christ. They know a lot of Paul, tho. So even the non-readers are being spoon fed by their church leaders. It's pathetic, I tell you....:3oops:
I always find it absolutely hilarious when one of you rational, open-minded, free-thinkers comes out with one of these ignorant, prejudiced, stereotypical descriptions of large groups of people. Hypocrisy, thy name is Bill. Tell ya what, I am a Christian and I would be just delighted to have you gauge my level of biblical knowledge by your own impressive yardstick - so whip it out sailor.

You are right about one thing, it is pathetic. We might be talking about two different things, however.
 

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walrus said:
It's all propaganda. We are just arguing about whose to use.



If you are unable to counter what your kid hears in school with your own instruction you aren't much of a parent.



I always find it absolutely hilarious when one of you rational, open-minded, free-thinkers comes out with one of these ignorant, prejudiced, stereotypical descriptions of large groups of people. Hypocrisy, thy name is Bill. Tell ya what, I am a Christian and I would be just delighted to have you gauge my level of biblical knowledge by your own impressive yardstick - so whip it out sailor.

You are right about one thing, it is pathetic. We might be talking about two different things, however.
It is a good idea to keep tabs of what your kids are learning, so you can fend off strange ideas. On the other hand, sometimes the teachers in public schools have to deal with strange ideas that come from the parents.

And what nerve did I step on with you, Walrus? How would you know my level of hypocrisy? I was raised a Baptist back in the 50's and 60's, in southeast Texas, and I heard a lot of ignorance, racism, and bigotry from the members of the many different churches that my mother tried out. I learned that there are a lot of different kinds of Baptist!
The preachers back then found a way to use the Bible to justify what they were teaching. Things are not that much different now, just different targets. Instead of teaching us that Blacks bear the mark of Cain (justifying our bad treatment of them), that Jews are Christ killers (encouraging hatred of them), we hear hatred and venom toward gays, lesbians, pro-lifers, etc.
Tell me that isn't true!!! If you are one of the evangelical types that do those things, show me where the words of Christ, (not Paul, not the OT), justify our being judgemental of others.
That is my issue with modern Christianity, too many are too vocal about things that are between the "sinner" and God. He is the judge, not us.
Does that clarify anything, or muddy up the waters even more?:2wave:
 

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The nerve you stepped on was the one where you made a blanket statement about "most" Christians:

utahbill said:
Besides, most Christians I have discussed the NT with don't seem to know much about it, especially the parts that involve Christ. They know a lot of Paul, tho. So even the non-readers are being spoon fed by their church leaders. It's pathetic, I tell you....
And then go on to state that your opinion about "most" of the 1.5 billion Christians on Earth was formed through:

utahbill said:
I was raised a Baptist back in the 50's and 60's, in southeast Texas, and I heard a lot of ignorance, racism, and bigotry from the members of the many different churches that my mother tried out. I learned that there are a lot of different kinds of Baptist!
So, you have extrapolated various facts about "most" Christians based on Baptists in southeast Texas. What a remarkable cross-section of Christian belief!

utahbill said:
The preachers back then found a way to use the Bible to justify what they were teaching. Things are not that much different now, just different targets. Instead of teaching us that Blacks bear the mark of Cain (justifying our bad treatment of them), that Jews are Christ killers (encouraging hatred of them),
Although I am aware that there are very small minorities of Christians who believe these things, I have never in my life been to a religious service in which anything even remotely similar was espoused (and I have been to a large cross-section of denominations and sects).

utahbill said:
we hear hatred and venom toward gays, lesbians, pro-lifers, etc
There is a great difference between moral disagreement (and even condemnation) and hatred or venom. Although I don't dispute that there is hatred and venom on both sides of each of those issues, it is also rather popular to dismiss any disagreement with regards to the moral implications of abortion, homosexuality, etc... as hatred automatically because that relieves the need for debate about the issue.
 

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walrus said:
The nerve you stepped on was the one where you made a blanket statement about "most" Christians:



And then go on to state that your opinion about "most" of the 1.5 billion Christians on Earth was formed through:

So, you have extrapolated various facts about "most" Christians based on Baptists in southeast Texas. What a remarkable cross-section of Christian belief!

There is a great difference between moral disagreement (and even condemnation) and hatred or venom. Although I don't dispute that there is hatred and venom on both sides of each of those issues, it is also rather popular to dismiss any disagreement with regards to the moral implications of abortion, homosexuality, etc... as hatred automatically because that relieves the need for debate about the issue.
Well, you have misled yourself.You are reading into a post things that were not said. I helped you by not making it very clear for you. I should have said "many of the Christians that I have debated with" instead of "Besides, most Christians I have discussed the NT with". Essentially the same thing. That is a fairly small cross section, and was the sum total of who I was talking about.
From that you derived that I am a rational open minded free thinker, and I thank you for the compliment.
It wasn't just the churches of my youth. I watch the TV, read the news, and debate with other Christians. I spent an entire day during a road trip discussing religion with a co-worker who calls himself a NT Christian, but he was strangely unaware of many of the teachings of Christ. He was my age, mid 50's at the time, and goes to church every Sunday. I jokingly suggested that he get his naps at home from now on, as he was missing a lot. The very foundation of all Christian churches should be the teachings of Christ. So where do the evangelicals get their hate messages? Why do they stand on street corners with signs of hate against other Christian churches? I saw one with a sign about a year ago that said "the Pope is a communist". What the heck is that about?
I agree that the majority of Christians are not like that, but you know how it goes, it only takes a few to give the rest a bad name.
 

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UtahBill said:
Well, you have misled yourself.You are reading into a post things that were not said. I helped you by not making it very clear for you. I should have said "many of the Christians that I have debated with" instead of "Besides, most Christians I have discussed the NT with". Essentially the same thing. That is a fairly small cross section, and was the sum total of who I was talking about.
Fair enough, although I would probably not have had the visceral reation that I had if you had simply left off:

utahbill said:
It's pathetic, I tell you....
Which transformed a rational statement into a statement of disdain and contempt. (or could we say hatred and venom?)

utahbill said:
From that you derived that I am a rational open minded free thinker, and I thank you for the compliment.
The first statement was sarcasm. The jury is still out as to whether it actually applies.

utahbill said:
It wasn't just the churches of my youth. I watch the TV, read the news, and debate with other Christians.
ditto

utahbill said:
I spent an entire day during a road trip discussing religion with a co-worker who calls himself a NT Christian, but he was strangely unaware of many of the teachings of Christ. He was my age, mid 50's at the time, and goes to church every Sunday. I jokingly suggested that he get his naps at home from now on, as he was missing a lot.
I have known Democrats and Republicans who had absolutely no idea what "their" party stands for. I have spoken to protestors who have no idea what they are protesting. There are members of any group which have no idea about that group or in fact why they are members. This is an indictment of that particular member, not the group as a whole.


utahbill said:
The very foundation of all Christian churches should be the teachings of Christ.
Out of curiousity, what is your current religious belief? I always listen with a raised eyebrow when a person who is not a member of a group starts telling that group how they should interpret their beliefs.

utahbill said:
So where do the evangelicals get their hate messages? Why do they stand on street corners with signs of hate against other Christian churches? I saw one with a sign about a year ago that said "the Pope is a communist". What the heck is that about?
First and foremost it is about free speech. You are not required to agree with it, like it, or listen to it. I disagree with it as well, but I can understand some of the beliefs that lead to these messages (even though I don't accept them myself). Always remember, for every Christian you see on a street corner with a hate sign, there are probably 100,000 who would never dream of doing such a thing.

utahbill said:
I agree that the majority of Christians are not like that, but you know how it goes, it only takes a few to give the rest a bad name.
Yes, I know how it goes. It is called stereotyping and prejudice.
 

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walrus said:
Fair enough, although I would probably not have had the visceral reation that I had if you had simply left off:
Which transformed a rational statement into a statement of disdain and contempt. (or could we say hatred and venom?)
The first statement was sarcasm. The jury is still out as to whether it actually applies.
ditto
I have known Democrats and Republicans who had absolutely no idea what "their" party stands for. I have spoken to protestors who have no idea what they are protesting. There are members of any group which have no idea about that group or in fact why they are members. This is an indictment of that particular member, not the group as a whole.
Out of curiousity, what is your current religious belief? I always listen with a raised eyebrow when a person who is not a member of a group starts telling that group how they should interpret their beliefs.
First and foremost it is about free speech. You are not required to agree with it, like it, or listen to it. I disagree with it as well, but I can understand some of the beliefs that lead to these messages (even though I don't accept them myself). Always remember, for every Christian you see on a street corner with a hate sign, there are probably 100,000 who would never dream of doing such a thing.
Yes, I know how it goes. It is called stereotyping and prejudice.
Thank you very much for the sermon. You seem to have a talent for reading into a post things that were not said. People need to have considerable prejudice themselves in order to be good at that.
I never judged all Christians, that was your interpretation.
The leaders of many churches forget the original message of service to their fellow man and turn their churches into businesses, political endeavors, country clubs, etc. A religion's effectiveness in following the teachings of Christ can be judged based on what good it does for the community of man.

I understand the concept of free speech, and freedom of religion, even freedom from religion for those who choose that.
I am not interested in comparing religions or religious beliefs with you. I have my opinions and they follow the essentials as found in the words of Christ (4 gospels) and the writings of the original apostles, and to a lesser extent, Paul.
And I try to practice what I profess to believe by helping my neighbors who are in need.
Concerning "It's pathetic, I tell you", that was a bit of Rodney Dangerfield type humor. It may have been too subtle for the younger set.
 

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Because it's hard to spell.

What a stupid question. Two of my Science Proffessors were Christians.
 

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A better question might have been why do Christians ignore aspects of the Bible.
 

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Its worth noting that in the medeival days the church burnt people alive because astromoners said the earth evolved around the sun, not the other way round. Religion has always attacked science because they feel it lessens their influence, they have felt threaten by it.

As the years go one we are getting more and more prove that we are not that different from other animals. Evolution is nowadays what the movement of the Earth was in those days. Religion seems to have a natural resistance to change.
 

Cloud9

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Fortunately, they're being guided to some small degree.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051104/...atican_science
Vatican: Faithful Should Listen to Science
By NICOLE WINFIELD, Associated Press Writer Fri Nov 4,10:12 AM ET

VATICAN CITY - A
Vatican cardinal said Thursday the faithful should listen to what secular modern science has to offer, warning that religion risks turning into "fundamentalism" if it ignores scientific reason.
 

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GarzaUK said:
Its worth noting that in the medeival days the church burnt people alive because astromoners said the earth evolved around the sun, not the other way round. Religion has always attacked science because they feel it lessens their influence, they have felt threaten by it.

As the years go one we are getting more and more prove that we are not that different from other animals. Evolution is nowadays what the movement of the Earth was in those days. Religion seems to have a natural resistance to change.
Human history is largely a violent contest of gods and the men who served them. Any religion can turn toward the darkness as easily as toward the light and religious intolerance always returns in times of doubt and disorder. When everything an individual believes in is threatend by another thought of reasoning or through science, the immediate response is to defend one's faith, because to many it is not just the faith that is being threatened.

The ease with which today’s Americans of diverse faiths interact in social settings has allowed us to forget that our ancestors, in their homelands, massacred one another over the contents of the communion cup, or slaughtered Jews and called it God’s desire, or delivered their faith to their colonies with Bibles and breech-loading rifles. Some even brought their hatreds to our shores, but America conquered their bigotries over the generations—although even we have not vanquished intolerance completely. Religions change, because men change them. Fundamentalists insist upon an historical stasis, but evolution in the architecture of faith has always been essential to, and reflective of, human progress. Certainty is comforting, but a religion’s capacity for adaptive behavior unleashes the energies necessary to renew both the faith and the society in which it flourishes. Islam is the latest example of this change, but this crisis has never been as intense as it is today in the Middle East, where treasured values and inherited behaviors simply do not work in the 21st century.
 
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