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Why do Americans pay more for health care?

Dittohead not!

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Is it because of widespread obesity? Alcohol consumption? an aging population? outrageous malpractice suits? all of the above?

Check it out here:

Now, how can we bring those costs under control?
 
I agree 100% with that well illustrated and highly informative article.

In most socialized health countries, pay rates and proceedures are capped by the gov, so naturally healthcare costs less. Of course do you really want to go to a doctor who feels like he is underpaid, or who can't give you the proceedure that you and him agree that you need because they are rationed?

The issue that we have in America is mostly caused by lack of competition, combined with idiotic government policy concerning healthcare.

There is a very simple solution, very cost effective, that would take advantage of capitalism while ensuring that all Americans have adequate health insurance and can recieve the care that they feel that they need.

I have detailed it out about a zillion times, and it has been totally ignored a zillion times, so I ain't gonna outline the plan again unless some open minded individual is interested enough to ask me about it. I even pitched the idea in person to a congressman, his eyes just glazed over. It's so simple it just seems to go over everyones head.
 
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Medical insurance. The concept of medical insurance is an abomination and that's what is ruining our healthcare system.

It's really very simple. Insurance is a form of gambling. You bet the insurance company that you'll get sick, and they bet you won't. Like any good bookie, they bet the odds. The longer the odds against them, the more money you have to bet against them for them to make money.

And the odds? One hundred percent. Everyone get sick and dies eventually, and you spend more money on healthcare during the last year than you do the entire rest of your life.

So how much do they have to charge you to make money? More than 100% of what it costs to provide everyone with healthcare in the first place.
 
Here's what I'll do when you elect me dictator (just before abdicating, as I don't really want to be dictator):

I'd issue everyone a type of MasterCard that can only be used to pay for medical care. At first, the patient would be billed, just like any credit card, and interest and penalties added in the case of non payment.

The government wouldn't be in charge of collections. That would be contracted out to someone who knows how to collect, like Citibank, for example.

After having paid 10% of their income (total income, including welfare payments), the government would take over and pay the rest.

The provider would neither know nor care who was paying, so everyone would be treated the same.

The patient would have an incentive to shop around, to cut costs, to take the generic when possible, and not to seek unnecessary treatment, as he would be paying for most of it. On the other hand, no one would have to go bankrupt or forgo needed care due to lack of money.

Pay for the system by combining Medicare, Medicaid, and a fee on employers equal to half what they have been paying to cover their employees, plus an equal fee for the deadbeat employers who have been letting the emergency rooms take care of their uncovered employees.

Voila. A simple solution, one that depends on free markets, one that covers everyone, and that brings cost down.

Now, what should I write for the next 2,000 pages in order to come up with a plan that the government would accept?
 
Here's what I'll do when you elect me dictator (just before abdicating, as I don't really want to be dictator):

I'd issue everyone a type of MasterCard that can only be used to pay for medical care. At first, the patient would be billed, just like any credit card, and interest and penalties added in the case of non payment.

The government wouldn't be in charge of collections. That would be contracted out to someone who knows how to collect, like Citibank, for example.

After having paid 10% of their income (total income, including welfare payments), the government would take over and pay the rest.

The provider would neither know nor care who was paying, so everyone would be treated the same.

The patient would have an incentive to shop around, to cut costs, to take the generic when possible, and not to seek unnecessary treatment, as he would be paying for most of it. On the other hand, no one would have to go bankrupt or forgo needed care due to lack of money.

Pay for the system by combining Medicare, Medicaid, and a fee on employers equal to half what they have been paying to cover their employees, plus an equal fee for the deadbeat employers who have been letting the emergency rooms take care of their uncovered employees.

Voila. A simple solution, one that depends on free markets, one that covers everyone, and that brings cost down.

Now, what should I write for the next 2,000 pages in order to come up with a plan that the government would accept?

Great minds think alike. Our plans differ, but I would be willing to vote for yours if I couldn't vote for mine. The personal economic incentive and the downward pressure that price competition would create is virtually identical between our plans, although the exact details in implimentation differ.

You obviously get what most everyone else fails to understand. Two thumbs up!
 
Medical insurance. The concept of medical insurance is an abomination and that's what is ruining our healthcare system.

It's really very simple. Insurance is a form of gambling. You bet the insurance company that you'll get sick, and they bet you won't. Like any good bookie, they bet the odds. The longer the odds against them, the more money you have to bet against them for them to make money.

And the odds? One hundred percent. Everyone get sick and dies eventually, and you spend more money on healthcare during the last year than you do the entire rest of your life.

So how much do they have to charge you to make money? More than 100% of what it costs to provide everyone with healthcare in the first place.

Yup. you get it also. Maybe I have underestimated the brilliance the posters on this site. You understand what no polition is capable of understanding.
 
Yup. you get it also. Maybe I have underestimated the brilliance the posters on this site. You understand what no polition is capable of understanding.

Ah, never underestimate the brilliance of those of us who sit in our recliners, computer on laps, thinking big thoughts. Actually, we could do much better than most of the bozos we send to Washington.

Now, here's why my plan, and probably yours, will never happen. It is because of the problem Victyr has pointed out: Insurance companies. They have a lot of money, therefore a strong lobby, and would never stand aside and allow a workable and cost cutting health care plan to get passed, as then they wouldn't have a lot of money.
 
When I proposed my to the Senator, he had to keep asking his aid if my numbers were correct. The aid kept confirming my numbers, but the Congressman just didn't seem to comprehend how what I suggested was mathmatically possible. The only thing he really said about the plan was that it was "bold". He did mention that "Mildred" wouldn't like it because she likes the current system (Mildred is a waitress in our town, when I told the Congressman that I have know Mildred for over 20 years I think I blew his mind). Regardless, he was chariterising Mildred as his typical constituant and he felt that getting her vote was more important that the concept that I was trying to explain to him.

About a month later I met him again at a debate, he didn't remember me, or meeting with me, or anything that we discussed. After six or seven terms in office, he lost the election, didn't even get the nomination. I guess Mildred was the only person who voted for him.
 
Yup. you get it also. Maybe I have underestimated the brilliance the posters on this site. You understand what no polition is capable of understanding.

Be amazed what a man can't understand when his paycheck relies on not understanding it.
 
*My* healthcare costs are "0"

The amount my insurance has paid out over the year, I'm sure, is astounding considering my husband's health issues and pregnancies - and dental costs.

But I wouln't know how much that comes up to because I don't see a single bill - it's covered 100%. So between the high tech sonogram and mri's done this week on my husband's leg - and the insurance company covering every penny - that pretty much explains why everyone's healthcare coverage is more and most costly - yet costing individuals less and less.
 
*My* healthcare costs are "0"

The amount my insurance has paid out over the year, I'm sure, is astounding considering my husband's health issues and pregnancies - and dental costs.

But I wouln't know how much that comes up to because I don't see a single bill - it's covered 100%. So between the high tech sonogram and mri's done this week on my husband's leg - and the insurance company covering every penny - that pretty much explains why everyone's healthcare coverage is more and most costly - yet costing individuals less and less.

It's funny how people only focus on the instances of what health insurance hasn't paid for, but convienently forget to take note of what they do pay for. I've seen the order list for all the care a patient that just comes through for an elective hip surgery and is in and out in 3 days. There is a laundry list of things that happen in a hospital that get charged to an insurance company that a patient never considers. They just see their co-pay or deductible. They don't see the real cost.
 
It's funny how people only focus on the instances of what health insurance hasn't paid for, but convienently forget to take note of what they do pay for. I've seen the order list for all the care a patient that just comes through for an elective hip surgery and is in and out in 3 days. There is a laundry list of things that happen in a hospital that get charged to an insurance company that a patient never considers. They just see their co-pay or deductible. They don't see the real cost.


I got about 5 grand in bills sitting on my desk right now. I can make my deductible in a week flat! Then of course my monthly payment to high risk insurance pool.

Then there is the 9 pills I take aday.
 
Here's what I'll do when you elect me dictator (just before abdicating, as I don't really want to be dictator):

I'd issue everyone a type of MasterCard that can only be used to pay for medical care. At first, the patient would be billed, just like any credit card, and interest and penalties added in the case of non payment.

The government wouldn't be in charge of collections. That would be contracted out to someone who knows how to collect, like Citibank, for example.

After having paid 10% of their income (total income, including welfare payments), the government would take over and pay the rest.

The provider would neither know nor care who was paying, so everyone would be treated the same.

The patient would have an incentive to shop around, to cut costs, to take the generic when possible, and not to seek unnecessary treatment, as he would be paying for most of it. On the other hand, no one would have to go bankrupt or forgo needed care due to lack of money.

Pay for the system by combining Medicare, Medicaid, and a fee on employers equal to half what they have been paying to cover their employees, plus an equal fee for the deadbeat employers who have been letting the emergency rooms take care of their uncovered employees.

Voila. A simple solution, one that depends on free markets, one that covers everyone, and that brings cost down.

Now, what should I write for the next 2,000 pages in order to come up with a plan that the government would accept?

So let me see if I got this right a person making 10g per year would pay 1g, a person making 100g would pay 10g and a person making 1 mil would pay 100g. Some how I can't see this working especially for the one mil earner, I fail to see how your plan would provide an incentive to individuals to keep cost down their health care costs would be set by the amount they earn not how careful they were with their health
 
*My* healthcare costs are "0"

The amount my insurance has paid out over the year, I'm sure, is astounding considering my husband's health issues and pregnancies - and dental costs.

But I wouln't know how much that comes up to because I don't see a single bill - it's covered 100%. So between the high tech sonogram and mri's done this week on my husband's leg - and the insurance company covering every penny - that pretty much explains why everyone's healthcare coverage is more and most costly - yet costing individuals less and less.

Not if you have to purchase your own insurance, or don't qualify for an insurance plan. you feel the pain (either financially or physically) then.
 
Is it because of widespread obesity? Alcohol consumption? an aging population? outrageous malpractice suits? all of the above?

Check it out here:

Now, how can we bring those costs under control?

we pay more for a variety of reasons. for example, we aren't rationed, like happens in single-payer countries. we have third-party-payments, like they do, but we have our insurance industry keep paying, whereas the governments in those nations have an ability to just say "no screw you." we also consume more healthcare. two surgeries usually costs more than one or none. currently we have the worst of both worlds - socialized costs with privatized benefits, and it encourages massive overconsumption with no price pressure.

how to cut costs? well, the point here is to distinguish between costs and expenditures. costs change with the prices of insuring and providing healthcare are altered. expenditures change when the money coming out of the government alters. now, the two are obviously connected - the lower the costs, the easier to lower the expenditures; but not solid.

the current system of ours, where we each compete to try to get the most healthcare for someone else's money, only leaves us all losing. costs and expenditures rise dramatically each year. there are, however, a few worthy counterexamples; and it is instructive to take note of what they are doing correctly:

Indiana offered HSA's, which have patients save money in tax-free accounts (where it grows and remains theirs forever and ever unless theys pend it) matched with high deductible plans to it's employees. Employees began to respond to price signals, and medical costs per patient were reduced by 33% and expenditures to the state were reduced by 11%.

Safeway has instituted a program that gave financial incentives to people who engaged in healthy behavior by allowing price signals in the insurance side of the market to work (Indiana worked on the medical side), and saw it's per-captia health care costs remain flat from 2005-2009; when most companies saw theirs jump by 38%.

Whole Foods instituted HSA's, and let's the employees choose what they want the company to fund. This institutes price pressure on the medical side (WF covers the high-deductible plan 100%), and their CEO points out that as a result Whole Foods' per-capita costs are much lower than typical insurance programs, while maintaining employee satisfaction.

Medicare Part D utilized market pressure on the insurance side, and saw expenditures come in at 40% UNDER expenditures - the only such government program in history to do so.

Wendy's instituted HSA's, and saw the number of their employees who got preventative and annual checkup care climb even as they saw claims decrease by 14% (in one year).

Wal-Mart's low cost clinics and prescriptions save us oodles of cash. Wal-Mart reports that "half of their clinic patients report that they are uninsured" and that "if it were not for [Wal-Marts'] clinics they would haven't gotten care - or they would have gone to an emergency room". Walmart - reducing costs and expenditures.

all of these utilize the markets to lower costs and expenditures; and they are just the begining. Not using insurance to pay for every procedure, checkup, etc. reduces administrative costs, which in turn reduces medical costs - and as HSA's catch on (assuming that Obamacare - which criminalizes them - is repealed) we will see the positive effects of that on costs and expenditures as well.

Dr Robert Berry runs a practice called PATMOS (payment at time of service). he doesn't take insurance at all - but simply posts the prices of his services. By removing the cost of dealing with mutliple insurance agencies, medicare, and medicaid, the prices he is able to list are one half to ONE THIRD of standard. That's huge.

what do all these programs have in common? They use market price pressure. People start to make better informed, and more conscious decisions once they are compensated for doing so.

current democrat plan is to reduce market pressure and cut straight expenditures, while taking steps that have historically increased prices. The idea is to have the IPAB decide when your care is no longer cost-effective to the government, and cut you off.

current republican plan is to increase market pressure to reduce both costs and expenditures, and do so in a way that lets seniors decide what is or isn't cost-effective. The idea is to put into place some of the strategies outlined above.
 
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So let me see if I got this right a person making 10g per year would pay 1g, a person making 100g would pay 10g and a person making 1 mil would pay 100g. Some how I can't see this working especially for the one mil earner, I fail to see how your plan would provide an incentive to individuals to keep cost down their health care costs would be set by the amount they earn not how careful they were with their health

I agree with your point that the "insurance" portion of this plan shouldn't be based on income. But you are missing the concept. The concept is that individuals would be directly responsible for typical health care costs. I don't have gas insurance or food insurance. It would be rediculous to do that. Health insurance shouldn't cover a $60 doctor visit or a $4 script of bloodpressure pills either. We all should budget our money to account for occasionally moderate healthcare needs.

It's the fact that many of us have insurance that covers a casual trip to the doc, most likely with a flat fee of something like $20 that creates an environment where people go to the doctor when they are not sick, driving up demand, and when they don't shop based on price because it is a flat $x to them. If people don't priceshop, then docs don't compete on price, and the entire capitalistic system gets turned upside down. Capitalism doesn't work without competition.

The posters point is that individuals should be responsible for all of their care, up to the point where the cost of the care is catistrophic to their financial situation. I agree 100%. Insurance, or at least unneeded insurance is part of the problem, not part of the solution. We don't need more people to purchase more insurance, we need everyone to have catistrophic major medical insurance, nothing more, nothing less. Anything more, and we end up with rediculously priced insurance and medical care, anything less and we end up with people dying because they couldn't afford a medical proceedure.

Our government already spends $1.2 trillion dollars a year on health care. Only 30% of Americans benefit from that expense. it averages out to about $12,000 per person who recieves government insurance or medical care, but it also works out to be about the same amount that it would cost the government to purchase a major medical policy for EVERY American from a PRIVATE insurance company.

Major medical policies are fairly inexpensive, I know because I have one. That poster was basically suggesting government insurance for everyone, with basically a means tested deductable, funded by eleminating all other gov medical expenditures. I would suggest that the goverment purchase private insurance for everyone, with an equal high deductable for everyone and requiring the patient to pay out of pocket a very small percent over the deductable (maybe 5% or so), funded by eleminating all other gov medical expenditures. Under my plan, the government could save about $3,000 per person (high deductable major medical plans can cost less than $1000 per year per person), which could be used to reduce our tax rates, or to reduce the federal deficit, or possible to fund a Health Care Savings account for every American. If we went the route of funding HSA's, then when the patient goes to the doc, he would just pay for the medical care with his HSA debit card or check, much like the other poster suggested (he called it a VISA card), but either way, the patient would be paying with his own money, up to a point. I have had an HSA for many years, it is your money, it is never taken away unless you use it, but you can only use it for health care needs. In the unlikely and unfortunant event that all of the money in the HSA is used up, then the insurance would kick in as long as the deductable had been met.

The beauty of individuals paying for their own health care, directly out of their own account, is that most of the time, unless there is a terrible illness, the insurance company would never have to get involved. It reduces adminstrative costs for both the insurance company and the health care provider to virtually nothing for uncatistrophic care. It also encourages the patient to price shop for health care, as he/she is spending his/her own money. It is to the advantage of the patient to conserve the money in the HSA because it can run out, and there could possibly, depending on the situation, be a gap between the HSA and where the insurance would kick in. But since the HSA account would roll over from year to year, it would be very are that a prudent person would run out of funds to pay for healthcare. if they do, it would only be because they didn't price shop or because they wasted their HSA dollars on unnessisary doctors visits. Even if they did run out of money, there would only be a small gap, maybe a couple of grand, before the insurance would kick in. If it is a life or death matter, anyone can come up with a couple of grand.

Anyhow, the competitive price pressure would tend to reduce the price of healthcare, just as it does in every other industry.

It's a win-win-win situation for everyone, especially for employers who would no longer be expected to purchase insurance for employees, for the self employed or other people who have to purchase insurance, for the uninsured because they would automatically have insurance, and for the private insurance companies who would automatically (if they win the competitive bid) get 308 million customers, without having to advertise, without having to have hundreds of different policies, without having to send out a zillion checks for $90 doctor visits. And it's a great deal for people like me who pay taxes, but recieve no government provided healthcare insurance or services for the taxes I pay.
 
we pay more for a variety of reasons. for example, we aren't rationed, like happens in single-payer countries. we have third-party-payments, like they do, but we have our insurance industry keep paying, whereas the governments in those nations have an ability to just say "no screw you." we also consume more healthcare. two surgeries usually costs more than one or none. currently we have the worst of both worlds - socialized costs with privatized benefits, and it encourages massive overconsumption with no price pressure.

how to cut costs? well, the point here is to distinguish between costs and expenditures. costs change with the prices of insuring and providing healthcare are altered. expenditures change when the money coming out of the government alters. now, the two are obviously connected - the lower the costs, the easier to lower the expenditures; but not solid.

the current system of ours, where we each compete to try to get the most healthcare for someone else's money, only leaves us all losing. costs and expenditures rise dramatically each year. there are, however, a few worthy counterexamples; and it is instructive to take note of what they are doing correctly:

Indiana offered HSA's, which have patients save money in tax-free accounts (where it grows and remains theirs forever and ever unless theys pend it) matched with high deductible plans to it's employees. Employees began to respond to price signals, and medical costs per patient were reduced by 33% and expenditures to the state were reduced by 11%.

Safeway has instituted a program that gave financial incentives to people who engaged in healthy behavior by allowing price signals in the insurance side of the market to work (Indiana worked on the medical side), and saw it's per-captia health care costs remain flat from 2005-2009; when most companies saw theirs jump by 38%.

Whole Foods instituted HSA's, and let's the employees choose what they want the company to fund. This institutes price pressure on the medical side (WF covers the high-deductible plan 100%), and their CEO points out that as a result Whole Foods' per-capita costs are much lower than typical insurance programs, while maintaining employee satisfaction.

Medicare Part D utilized market pressure on the insurance side, and saw expenditures come in at 40% UNDER expenditures - the only such government program in history to do so.

Wendy's instituted HSA's, and saw the number of their employees who got preventative and annual checkup care climb even as they saw claims decrease by 14% (in one year).

Wal-Mart's low cost clinics and prescriptions save us oodles of cash. Wal-Mart reports that "half of their clinic patients report that they are uninsured" and that "if it were not for [Wal-Marts'] clinics they would haven't gotten care - or they would have gone to an emergency room". Walmart - reducing costs and expenditures.

all of these utilize the markets to lower costs and expenditures; and they are just the begining. Not using insurance to pay for every procedure, checkup, etc. reduces administrative costs, which in turn reduces medical costs - and as HSA's catch on (assuming that Obamacare - which criminalizes them - is repealed) we will see the positive effects of that on costs and expenditures as well.

Dr Robert Berry runs a practice called PATMOS (payment at time of service). he doesn't take insurance at all - but simply posts the prices of his services. By removing the cost of dealing with mutliple insurance agencies, medicare, and medicaid, the prices he is able to list are one half to ONE THIRD of standard. That's huge.

what do all these programs have in common? They use market price pressure. People start to make better informed, and more conscious decisions once they are compensated for doing so.

current democrat plan is to reduce market pressure and cut straight expenditures, while taking steps that have historically increased prices. The idea is to have the IPAB decide when your care is no longer cost-effective to the government, and cut you off.

current republican plan is to increase market pressure to reduce both costs and expenditures, and do so in a way that lets seniors decide what is or isn't cost-effective. The idea is to put into place some of the strategies outlined above.

Thank you CP! It took some effort to put all that together, I was aware of the Whole Foods situation, but wasnt aware of the rest. It has blown my mind that we now have had 4 people posting pretty much the same concept in one thread. Maybe we (Americans) are waking up. Ive been making the same arguement for years and have become so frustrated with people suddenly changing the subject because they can't understand the concept.

By the way, you may want to add Singapore to that list, they do something very similar, and it has worked out very well.
 
It's funny how people only focus on the instances of what health insurance hasn't paid for, but convienently forget to take note of what they do pay for. I've seen the order list for all the care a patient that just comes through for an elective hip surgery and is in and out in 3 days. There is a laundry list of things that happen in a hospital that get charged to an insurance company that a patient never considers. They just see their co-pay or deductible. They don't see the real cost.

Not if you have to purchase your own insurance, or don't qualify for an insurance plan. you feel the pain (either financially or physically) then.

To both quotes - exactly.

First and foremost - the patient, the person who use to pay every penny - was removed from knowledge of how much is being paid, how much things cost. . . .bar none. . . and the cost of everything else rose after this began (with the institutionalization and commonality of insurance).
 
Insurance regulations and tax breaks have put most people on health care plans where there is no real incentive to control costs. When you combine this with our less than stellar personal health decisions, this leads to the highest per capita health care spending in the world.
 
It's funny how people only focus on the instances of what health insurance hasn't paid for, but convienently forget to take note of what they do pay for.

It took me too long to get my tax information back to the hospital, so I got to see the bill. I don't have insurance now, but my week in the hospital cost over fifteen thousand dollars, and the insurance coverage from my last job would have eaten all but $600.

Harry Guerilla said:
People are just so hell bent on UHC, I don't think reason and facts can hold off the insanity much longer.

If we spent half on UHC as we do on private insurance, we'd have the best healthcare system in the world, just like the countries that spend half of what we do on their healthcare.
 
If we spent half on UHC as we do on private insurance, we'd have the best healthcare system in the world, just like the countries that spend half of what we do on their healthcare.

And while I understand that cost is important, it isn't the only factor.
I'd gladly pay more, for the best possible outcome, even if I went into debt.

I hope the evidence Cpwill posted was enough to at least tease some brains into checking out the economic factors associated with exposure to price and the control of costs.
 
And while I understand that cost is important, it isn't the only factor.
I'd gladly pay more, for the best possible outcome, even if I went into debt.

The problem is that we are paying more, considerably more, and we are not getting the best possible outcome. Our morbidity statistics are abysmal.

If you are in a position to pay for the best possible care, even by going deeply into debt, you are already very, very fortunate.
 
Thank you CP! It took some effort to put all that together, I was aware of the Whole Foods situation, but wasnt aware of the rest. It has blown my mind that we now have had 4 people posting pretty much the same concept in one thread. Maybe we (Americans) are waking up. Ive been making the same arguement for years and have become so frustrated with people suddenly changing the subject because they can't understand the concept.

By the way, you may want to add Singapore to that list, they do something very similar, and it has worked out very well.

Now to get Congress and the insurance lobby on our side.
 
we pay more for a variety of reasons. for example, we aren't rationed, like happens in single-payer countries. we have third-party-payments, like they do, but we have our insurance industry keep paying, whereas the governments in those nations have an ability to just say "no screw you." we also consume more healthcare. two surgeries usually costs more than one or none. currently we have the worst of both worlds - socialized costs with privatized benefits, and it encourages massive overconsumption with no price pressure.

how to cut costs? well, the point here is to distinguish between costs and expenditures. costs change with the prices of insuring and providing healthcare are altered. expenditures change when the money coming out of the government alters. now, the two are obviously connected - the lower the costs, the easier to lower the expenditures; but not solid.

the current system of ours, where we each compete to try to get the most healthcare for someone else's money, only leaves us all losing. costs and expenditures rise dramatically each year. there are, however, a few worthy counterexamples; and it is instructive to take note of what they are doing correctly:

Indiana offered HSA's, which have patients save money in tax-free accounts (where it grows and remains theirs forever and ever unless theys pend it) matched with high deductible plans to it's employees. Employees began to respond to price signals, and medical costs per patient were reduced by 33% and expenditures to the state were reduced by 11%.

Safeway has instituted a program that gave financial incentives to people who engaged in healthy behavior by allowing price signals in the insurance side of the market to work (Indiana worked on the medical side), and saw it's per-captia health care costs remain flat from 2005-2009; when most companies saw theirs jump by 38%.

Whole Foods instituted HSA's, and let's the employees choose what they want the company to fund. This institutes price pressure on the medical side (WF covers the high-deductible plan 100%), and their CEO points out that as a result Whole Foods' per-capita costs are much lower than typical insurance programs, while maintaining employee satisfaction.

Medicare Part D utilized market pressure on the insurance side, and saw expenditures come in at 40% UNDER expenditures - the only such government program in history to do so.

Wendy's instituted HSA's, and saw the number of their employees who got preventative and annual checkup care climb even as they saw claims decrease by 14% (in one year).

Wal-Mart's low cost clinics and prescriptions save us oodles of cash. Wal-Mart reports that "half of their clinic patients report that they are uninsured" and that "if it were not for [Wal-Marts'] clinics they would haven't gotten care - or they would have gone to an emergency room". Walmart - reducing costs and expenditures.

all of these utilize the markets to lower costs and expenditures; and they are just the begining. Not using insurance to pay for every procedure, checkup, etc. reduces administrative costs, which in turn reduces medical costs - and as HSA's catch on (assuming that Obamacare - which criminalizes them - is repealed) we will see the positive effects of that on costs and expenditures as well.

Dr Robert Berry runs a practice called PATMOS (payment at time of service). he doesn't take insurance at all - but simply posts the prices of his services. By removing the cost of dealing with mutliple insurance agencies, medicare, and medicaid, the prices he is able to list are one half to ONE THIRD of standard. That's huge.

what do all these programs have in common? They use market price pressure. People start to make better informed, and more conscious decisions once they are compensated for doing so.

current democrat plan is to reduce market pressure and cut straight expenditures, while taking steps that have historically increased prices. The idea is to have the IPAB decide when your care is no longer cost-effective to the government, and cut you off.

current republican plan is to increase market pressure to reduce both costs and expenditures, and do so in a way that lets seniors decide what is or isn't cost-effective. The idea is to put into place some of the strategies outlined above.

I think all these things are good ideas. My problem is when one confronts a catastrophic situation like a heart transplant. The first year alone in 2008 (it was either 08 or 06) costs on average 787k. And there after drug costs range from 1.5k to 2k per month for life.

And when I say my problem I really do mean my problem. I'm in this situation.
 
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