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Why didn't the world save Vietnam?

Bullseye said:
No such thing as "natural allies"....
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So the USA has no natural allies?

None of NATO is naturally allied with the USA ?

No shared beliefs and culture ?

OK, good to know your viewpoint


...allegiances come and go all the time. Point is that during the Vietnam war era China WAS an ally as outlined in my link...
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China has never been an ally of Vietnam.

It was a case of my enemy's enemy is my friend.


But again you're missing the point - Vietnam should have been an ally of the USA in the same way that South Korea and Japan are today.
 
SmokethatGreen said:
From the war I mean and stopped America?

And no, I'm not talking about mere protesting only. . . .

A lot of people over and over keep saying that it was wrong and that America was evil for fighting it. . . . . . . . . If that is so, Why didn't the world protect it?

And as for America -> blockade it, Sanction it, Threaten invasion if it still pursues the war. . . .

That could have saved millions of lives. . . .

So why didn't the world do anything and instead just complained about it?
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Vietnam was a proxy war between the world's nuclear super powers. I don't think any other country wanted to stick their neck out.
 
Rich2018 said:
So the USA has no natural allies?

None of NATO is naturally allied with the USA ?

No shared beliefs and culture ?

OK, good to know your viewpoint
Click to expand...
NATO came about because of WW II not because of any natural affinity between the US and various European countries? Germany and Italy were ENEMIES of US during the war. Don't sound like "natural allies to me". Oh, and Russia was an ally back then.



Rich2018 said:
China has never been an ally of Vietnam.

It was a case of my enemy's enemy is my friend.
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And the difference between a friend providing military aid and an ally is . . .?

Rich2018 said:
But again you're missing the point - Vietnam should have been an ally of the USA in the same way that South Korea and Japan are today.
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Half of Vietnam WAS an ally of the USA.
 
Logicman said:
We tried to save Vietnam. I did two tours there during the war and we never lost a major battle. We hit a lick for freedom there and made the lousy Marxist Communists pay a steep price for their Pyrrhic "victory."

We could have won that war if the Jane Fonda liberals weren't such a bunch of bleeding heart ******s.
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LOL! So, IOW, you know nothing about Vietnam or why it was impossible to win.
 
iguanaman said:
Vietnam was a proxy war between the world's nuclear super powers. I don't think any other country wanted to stick their neck out.
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We had several allies during Vietnam war including, Australia, South Korea, Philippines, and New Zealand.
 
Bullseye said:
NATO came about because of WW II not because of any natural affinity between the US and various European countries...
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Well let's see, France is the USA's oldest ally
The USA fought alongside France, the UK, Belgium in WWI
The USA fought alongside the UK, France and all the European democracies (plus Canada, New Zealand, Australia) in WWII
The USA fought alongside these democracies in Korea

So yeah, I'd say the USA and the Western European democracies have a long history of mutual co-operation and defense


The USA didn't fight along side France in 1918 and promptly invade it in 1925 for instance.


...Germany and Italy were ENEMIES of US during the war....
Click to expand...


Italy was an ally in WWI and for the latter part of WWII

Germany wasn't a democracy during either war...otherwise there would have been no WWI or WWII


...and Russia was an ally back then...
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You mean USSR...well I'm not sure too many people in Congress or the Pentagon would describe them as allies during WWII

FDR called the USSR "a dictatorship as absolute as any other dictatorship in the world” after the invasion of Finland

Yet when the USA was forced into WWII, it was recognized that support for the USSR was essential if Nazi Germany was to be defeated.

Basically the USA chose to support the lesser of two evils.

A bit like sending Stinger missiles to the Muj during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.


...and the difference between a friend providing military aid and an ally is . . .?
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Motivation

The USA gave Stinger missiles to Muslim Afghans not because they were allies but because they wanted them to kill Soviet soldiers. Pay back for the USSR supplying AK-47's to North Vietnam a decade or so earlier.


...half of Vietnam WAS an ally of the USA.
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Which half were Americans safe from attack ?
 
Rich2018 said:
Well let's see, France is the USA's oldest ally
The USA fought alongside France, the UK, Belgium in WWI
The USA fought alongside the UK, France and all the European democracies (plus Canada, New Zealand, Australia) in WWII
The USA fought alongside these democracies in Korea

So yeah, I'd say the USA and the Western European democracies have a long history of mutual co-operation and defense


The USA didn't fight along side France in 1918 and promptly invade it in 1925 for instance.





Italy was an ally in WWI and for the latter part of WWII

Germany wasn't a democracy during either war...otherwise there would have been no WWI or WWII




You mean USSR...well I'm not sure too many people in Congress or the Pentagon would describe them as allies during WWII

FDR called the USSR "a dictatorship as absolute as any other dictatorship in the world” after the invasion of Finland

Yet when the USA was forced into WWII, it was recognized that support for the USSR was essential if Nazi Germany was to be defeated.

Basically the USA chose to support the lesser of two evils.

A bit like sending Stinger missiles to the Muj during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.





Motivation

The USA gave Stinger missiles to Muslim Afghans not because they were allies but because they wanted them to kill Soviet soldiers. Pay back for the USSR supplying AK-47's to North Vietnam a decade or so earlier.





Which half were Americans safe from attack ?
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LOL, nice collection of thoughtless jabberwocky.
 
Good4Nothin said:
It wasn't all that simple. It was anything but simple. Multiple reasons for being there, combined with confusion and misunderstandings. Communism was seen as a major threat, because we didn't understand communism would die on its own. And so on.
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No, we knew full well communism would die on it's own, we just knew it would take hundreds of millions with it. unfortunately communists also funded left wing politics in the US
 
Rich2018 said:
To you, winning was just a number. Just keep on killing until you figure you've won.
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That's what war is, Rich. Winning by attrition. Duh.

Liberals don't win a war by waving their bongs and dildos at the enemy while trying to figure out which bathroom to use.
 
Logicman said:
That's what war is, Rich. Winning by attrition. Duh...
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Well it's one way I suppose

Of course another way is by movement


But in Vietnam it was just that: a war of attrition.
The Vietnamese counted their losses in millions
The USA counted its losses in $billions of tax dollars.


The USA just didn't have the means to win short of mass genocide.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
No, we knew full well communism would die on it's own, we just knew it would take hundreds of millions with it. unfortunately communists also funded left wing politics in the US
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Ok, that's true. Communists doesn't die until it runs out of the wealth it stole, and that can take decades.
 
Logicman said:
You weren't even there. I seriously doubt you've ever served anywhere either.
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LOL! There's absolutely no credible reason to believe that you were ever in the VN or the armed services.

Given your history of dishonesty, you'll understand is people don't take your claims seriously.
 
SmokethatGreen said:
From the war I mean and stopped America?

And no, I'm not talking about mere protesting only. . . .

A lot of people over and over keep saying that it was wrong and that America was evil for fighting it. . . . . . . . . If that is so, Why didn't the world protect it?

And as for America -> blockade it, Sanction it, Threaten invasion if it still pursues the war. . . .

That could have saved millions of lives. . . .

So why didn't the world do anything and instead just complained about it?
Click to expand...

What about Korea? Should we have just let the North Koreans run roughshod over South Korea in 1950?
 
Logicman said:
We tried to save Vietnam. I did two tours there during the war and we never lost a major battle. We hit a lick for freedom there and made the lousy Marxist Communists pay a steep price for their Pyrrhic "victory."

We could have won that war if the Jane Fonda liberals weren't such a bunch of bleeding heart ******s.
Click to expand...

The Vietnam war was an attempt to save the 'great deal' the French went there to 'give' them...for Michelin tire.

(Vietnam at the time, supplied more than 1/3 of the world's rubber)

Then it was a profit center, was to never end and why Nixon like trump, had a plan to end it.

However, it just took billion$ more, 6 more years and another 30,000 American lives.

And Jane Fonda had absolutely nothing to do with Nixon having told Kissinger to go to Hanoi

and tell them not to make peace with LBJ. Yes...not to make peace ?

So they could get a better deal with Nixon. Repubs, make you sick over their traitorous acts.

Oh and the rest of the world didn't care.
 
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Logicman said:
That's what war is, Rich. Winning by attrition. Duh.

Liberals don't win a war by waving their bongs and dildos at the enemy while trying to figure out which bathroom to use.
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No, wars are won when one side surrenders or withdraws. There was no plan to defeat and occupy North Vietnam. It was a police action to keep South Vietnam out of Communist control. It was a civil war more than a war intended to defeat an enemy and neutralize them.
 
devildavid said:
No, wars are won when one side surrenders or withdraws. There was no plan to defeat and occupy North Vietnam. It was a police action to keep South Vietnam out of Communist control. It was a civil war more than a war intended to defeat an enemy and neutralize them.
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The USA learned none of the lessons that the British used and learned in Malaya.

Then again the British had several advantages in Malaya that the USA didn't have in Vietnam.
 
Rich2018 said:
Expand please.
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You said the situation in Korea today justifies military intervention in the case of a North Korean intervention... but my original post was about the US intervention during the 1950 invasion - I was asking you if the same principle held true then.
 
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