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Why didn't the world save Vietnam?

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From the war I mean and stopped America?

And no, I'm not talking about mere protesting only. . . .

A lot of people over and over keep saying that it was wrong and that America was evil for fighting it. . . . . . . . . If that is so, Why didn't the world protect it?

And as for America -> blockade it, Sanction it, Threaten invasion if it still pursues the war. . . .

That could have saved millions of lives. . . .

So why didn't the world do anything and instead just complained about it?
 

beefheart

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From the war I mean and stopped America?

And no, I'm not talking about mere protesting only. . . .

A lot of people over and over keep saying that it was wrong and that America was evil for fighting it. . . . . . . . . If that is so, Why didn't the world protect it?

And as for America -> blockade it, Sanction it, Threaten invasion if it still pursues the war. . . .

That could have saved millions of lives. . . .

So why didn't the world do anything and instead just complained about it?

But....all you are doing is complaining.
 

Logicman

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From the war I mean and stopped America?

And no, I'm not talking about mere protesting only. . . .

A lot of people over and over keep saying that it was wrong and that America was evil for fighting it. . . . . . . . . If that is so, Why didn't the world protect it?

And as for America -> blockade it, Sanction it, Threaten invasion if it still pursues the war. . . .

That could have saved millions of lives. . . .

So why didn't the world do anything and instead just complained about it?

We tried to save Vietnam. I did two tours there during the war and we never lost a major battle. We hit a lick for freedom there and made the lousy Marxist Communists pay a steep price for their Pyrrhic "victory."

We could have won that war if the Jane Fonda liberals weren't such a bunch of bleeding heart pussies.
 

Good4Nothin

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From the war I mean and stopped America?

And no, I'm not talking about mere protesting only. . . .

A lot of people over and over keep saying that it was wrong and that America was evil for fighting it. . . . . . . . . If that is so, Why didn't the world protect it?

And as for America -> blockade it, Sanction it, Threaten invasion if it still pursues the war. . . .

That could have saved millions of lives. . . .

So why didn't the world do anything and instead just complained about it?

It wasn't all that simple. It was anything but simple. Multiple reasons for being there, combined with confusion and misunderstandings. Communism was seen as a major threat, because we didn't understand communism would die on its own. And so on.
 

Angel

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...
And as for America -> blockade it, Sanction it, Threaten invasion if it still pursues the war. . . .

That could have saved millions of lives. . . .
...
Threatening invasion of the USA "could have saved millions of lives"?
Keep smokin' that green, and welcome to the forum.
 

Rich2018

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We tried to save Vietnam. I did two tours there during the war and we never lost a major battle. We hit a lick for freedom there and made the lousy Marxist Communists pay a steep price for their Pyrrhic "victory."

They were fighting for their freedom and their independence.

To them, the price was well worth paying.

All the USA was doing was walking in the shoes of the French colonial masters. As a country that gained its independence from defeating a colonial power, it's strange the USA couldn't understand that.



...we could have won that war if the Jane Fonda liberals weren't such a bunch of bleeding heart pussies.


I've heard this rubbish so many times

Let me ask you, what in your mind would have constituted "winning" ?

Killed every last Vietnamese ?
 

Logicman

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They were fighting for their freedom and their independence.

To them, the price was well worth paying.

All the USA was doing was walking in the shoes of the French colonial masters. As a country that gained its independence from defeating a colonial power, it's strange the USA couldn't understand that.

"...we could have won that war if the Jane Fonda liberals weren't such a bunch of bleeding heart pussies."

I've heard this rubbish so many times

Let me ask you, what in your mind would have constituted "winning" ?

Killed every last Vietnamese ?

Nope, just kill enough of the Marxist Communist butchers to where they decide it's not worth it anymore to continue the fight.

And yes, it was all the whining liberal pussies and hippies and draft-dodging demonstrators who gave the commies the will to continue fighting.

From a 1995 Wall Street Journal publication:

Q: Was the American antiwar movement important to Hanoi’s victory?

A: "It was essential to our strategy. Support for the war from our rear was completely secure while the American rear was vulnerable. Every day our leadership would listen to world news over the radio at 9 a.m. to follow the growth of the American antiwar movement. Visits to Hanoi by people like Jane Fonda and former Attorney General Ramsey Clark and ministers gave us confidence that we should hold on in the face of battlefield reverses. We were elated when Jane Fonda, wearing a red Vietnamese dress, said at a press conference that she was ashamed of American actions in the war and that she would struggle along with us." - Bui Tin, former Communist colonel who served on the general staff of the North Vietnamese army (Snopes.com)
 

Tom Horn

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From the war I mean and stopped America?

And no, I'm not talking about mere protesting only. . . .

A lot of people over and over keep saying that it was wrong and that America was evil for fighting it. . . . . . . . . If that is so, Why didn't the world protect it?

And as for America -> blockade it, Sanction it, Threaten invasion if it still pursues the war. . . .

That could have saved millions of lives. . . .

So why didn't the world do anything and instead just complained about it?
you do know that hat Castro had 800 combat troops in Cambodia during 1963, don’t you?
 

SenorXm/Sirius

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They were fighting for their freedom and their independence.

To them, the price was well worth paying.

All the USA was doing was walking in the shoes of the French colonial masters. As a country that gained its independence from defeating a colonial power, it's strange the USA couldn't understand that.






I've heard this rubbish so many times

Let me ask you, what in your mind would have constituted "winning" ?

Killed every last Vietnamese ?

To hell with the fact that both nuclear China(right in Vietnam's backyard) and the USSR were Vietnam's allies. It was the liberals pinkos fault we didn't bomb Vietnam into the stone age.

There was never any fear the Russians and Chinese might retaliate and WWIII would start. Nooooooooooooo it was all the evil libs fault.. lol
 

Good4Nothin

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The USA was afraid of communism and the domino theory. The communists thought they were fighting for something wonderful.

Both sides turned out to be wrong. Communism was a bad idea that always fails, and was nothing to be afraid of. Now it's dead, except in the minds of some die hard fantasy-dwellers.
 

Skeptic Bob

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I worked there for a few months about 9 years ago. The place seemed to have done a pretty good job of embracing capitalism all on its own. I’m sure that has only increased.
 

Angel

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Proxy war or nuclear war? That was the question.

Why didn't the world save Vietnam?
Vietnam saved the world.
 

Tom Horn

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Proxy war or nuclear war? That was the question.


Vietnam saved the world.
the border battalions where fine until the batteries command and control was taken out in Kontum.
 

Rich2018

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Nope, just kill enough of the Marxist Communist butchers to where they decide it's not worth it anymore to continue the fight....

They were in their own country

They weren't going anywhere

They could stop fighting and recover their strength and start all over.

To you, winning was just a number. Just keep on killing until you figure you've won.

Calgacus: "...they make a desert and call it peace"


Perhaps Cornwallis should have taken your advice and killed as many colonist "butchers" until they quit fighting for independence ?


What was the USA's problem with the Vietnamese trying to shake off colonial rule and unite the country as an independent sovereign state ?


...and yes, it was all the whining liberal pussies and hippies and draft-dodging demonstrators who gave the commies the will to continue fighting.

From a 1995 Wall Street Journal publication:

Q: Was the American antiwar movement important to Hanoi’s victory?

A: "It was essential to our strategy. Support for the war from our rear was completely secure while the American rear was vulnerable. Every day our leadership would listen to world news over the radio at 9 a.m. to follow the growth of the American antiwar movement. Visits to Hanoi by people like Jane Fonda and former Attorney General Ramsey Clark and ministers gave us confidence that we should hold on in the face of battlefield reverses. We were elated when Jane Fonda, wearing a red Vietnamese dress, said at a press conference that she was ashamed of American actions in the war and that she would struggle along with us." - Bui Tin, former Communist colonel who served on the general staff of the North Vietnamese army (Snopes.com)


Hitler used to same "stabbed in the back" excuse to persuade the German people that they hadn't really lost WWI.


The USA became the same thing as the USSR was in the post war period, enforcing its brand of politics on unwilling populations.

In short the USA became a colonial ruler and failed just as badly as the French did in Vietnam and later in Algeria.

Instead of bombing the Vietnamese, why not give them millions of dollars to build schools, hospitals, roads and all the other infrastructure to help them build up their country ?
 

Rich2018

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The USA was afraid of communism and the domino theory. The communists thought they were fighting for something wonderful.

Both sides turned out to be wrong. Communism was a bad idea that always fails, and was nothing to be afraid of. Now it's dead, except in the minds of some die hard fantasy-dwellers.


True about the domino theory - and that it proved false and 58,000 Americans died for nothing.


The communists were fighting for something though - their independence.

Communism isn't working out as you say, to go to Vietnam now you'll see a busy country working hard to make a living.


What the USA should have done was invite Ho Chi-Minh to Camp David and given him a couple of $billion. Yes he was a naive communist but he would have been OUR communist, not Moscow's.
 

Rich2018

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I'm sorry I thought we were talking about the Vietnam War and avoiding WW3

We were talking about the Vietnam War. You seem to think that the PRC was friendly towards Vietnam - an ally as you put it.


Whilst forgetting that only a few years later China invaded Vietnam.


There was no love lost between the Vietnamese and the Chinese.
 

SenorXm/Sirius

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We were talking about the Vietnam War. You seem to think that the PRC was friendly towards Vietnam - an ally as you put it.


Whilst forgetting that only a few years later China invaded Vietnam.


There was no love lost between the Vietnamese and the Chinese.

They were Vietnams ally during the War.

A 3 week war years later doesn't change that.
 

Bullseye

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They may have supplied arms and ammunition to help kill Americans, but China was most definitely not Vietnam's ally.
Well maybe they were.



Along with the Soviet Union, Communist China was an important strategic ally of North Vietnam during the Vietnam War. The Chinese Communist Party provided, arms, military training and essential supplies to help the Communist North defeat Capitalist South Vietnam and its ally, the United States, between 1954 and 1975.[23] During 1964 to 1969, the PRC reportedly sent over 300,000 troops, mostly in anti-aircraft divisions to combat in Vietnam.[24] However, the Vietnamese Communists remained suspicious of China's perceived attempts to increase its influence over Vietnam.[1] Vietnam was an ideological battleground of the Sino-Soviet split of the 1960s. After the Gulf of Tonkin incident in 1964, Chinese Premier Deng Xiaoping secretly promised the North Vietnamese 1 billion yuan in military and economic aid, on the condition that they refused all Soviet aid.[citation needed]
During the Vietnam War, the North Vietnamese and the Chinese had agreed to defer tackling their territorial issues until South Vietnam was defeated.
 

SenorXm/Sirius

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They may have supplied arms and ammunition to help kill Americans, but China was most definitely not Vietnam's ally.

OK. Read up.

However, the new evidence from China suggests that Mao was seriously prepared to intervene. There was a secret agreement between Hanoi and Beijing that if the Americans launched a ground invasion of North Vietnam (at that time, the United States had restricted itself to a bombing campaign), China would send ground troops into North Vietnam and would not allow the United States to defeat Hanoi. If the Americans bombed North Vietnam, China would match the American military action by taking measures to protect North Vietnamese cities and to rebuild roads and bridges. They would also send anti-aircraft artillery units and army engineers to support North Vietnamese troops and help them deal with the air bombing pressure.



https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/china-contributed-substantially-to-vietnam-war-victory-claims-scholar
 

Rich2018

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This is because, like in Korea, China was not prepared to have a major US military presence on its border.


Think Cuba and the USA's refusal to accept Soviet missiles so close to US territory.


Vietnam and China were not allies - there was a "marriage of convenience".

When the USA gave up and left, the Chinese attitude towards Vietnam was shown.
 

Bullseye

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...and then invaded them.


This is the point, China and Vietnam were not natural allies, if anything the total reverse.


The USA was stupid and declared war on Ho Chi Minh's communists when it should have been supporting him.
No such thing as "natural allies". Allegiances come and go all the time. Point is that during the Vietnam war era China WAS an ally as outlined in my link. There's a good book Hue 1968 that discusses Ho Chi Minh's ideology and his views on Communism vs Nationalism.
 
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