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Why did the War start?

teacher

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Conflict said:
Libertarians exist all along the economic spectrum.
Libertarians are for the flat tax. Libertarians are very solidly uniform in their economic view. Unless you mean the hippie Libertarians.
I happen to be central on that spectrum while you are considerably right. That's your position and I have nothing against that.. albeit sincere.

You are being a sycophant to the Bush Administration.

You've just missed a few of my posts then. Are you claiming that you're libertarian?
You think Bush has imposed a virtue of minimal government
No.
(simply killing SSI is a needle in a haystack, and likely a political ploy)?
He tried and failed.
Property Rights? Civlil Liberties? :rofl
Oh no doubt he's a tad Nazi. But that's what we need for the mean time to deal with this thing. The pendulum will swing back.


I tend to attempt to stay away from incendiary issues. I am human. At times I get pissed too. Sh!t happens. I try to deal with on a more distinguished level.
Simon Moon, Tashah and Gandhi are distinguished. You are confrontational.

No big deal. If you think it sounds gay that's fine. However I don't see how it relates to carnal interaction between two males... I think that's the schizophrenia chiming in

Just making the point that anyone can call names without calling names. You know that yet you try to bend it. Gay, effeminate. Weren't you just calling me semantical?

Did you just call me insane?
 

Conflict

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teacher said:
Simon Moon, Tashah and Gandhi are distinguished. You are confrontational.

Wether or not I'm distinguished by your standards..... I am distinguished by my own. Yes, I am confrontational. That is MY RIGHT. If you have a problem with that take your ass to the liberal camp.

TEACHER said:
Just making the point that anyone can call names without calling names. You know that yet you try to bend it. Gay, effeminate. Weren't you just calling me semantical?

Do you always require such redundant clarification? It is clear that my implications are quite blunt and direct.

teacher said:
Did you just call me insane?

Schizophrenia is a disorder.... Insanity is a pathology.
 

teacher

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Conflict said:
Wether or not I'm distinguished by your standards..... I am distinguished by my own. Yes, I am confrontational. That is MY RIGHT. If you have a problem with that take your ass to the liberal camp.
I guess we just have diferent dictionaries. I don't associate distinguished with confrontational. I'm also confrontational so don't take it as and insult. To the liberal camp? I don't get that one.
Do you always require such redundant clarification? It is clear that my implications are quite blunt and direct.

See? I don't associate the words blunt and direct with the word implications. Subtle or oblique maybe.

Schizophrenia is a disorder.... Insanity is a pathology.

Your saying I'm a sandwich short of a picnic, aren't you?

You're drunk, admit it.
 

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Ivan The Terrible said:
Your Master has been quite perplexed on this issue for some time... Tell me humans... Why did the war start?

Your master? Okie dokie....

Anyway, if I had to hazard a guess, I would say the war started because Saddam invaded a strategically important US ally, lost, made promises to secure the cessation of the conflict he started (including to disclose the destruction of his WMDs, attempted to assassinate a former US president, was friendly to terrorists, violated his promises and continued to fail to disclose the destruction of the WMDs even as US forces gathered to strike.
 

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Conflict said:
Sure I should be penalized because I view education as a method instead of tactic. To people like you education exists on a piece of paper. Me? I have vested interest in what is happening around me.

Education is based on study and experience. "A vested interest?" Well, so far you have consistently proven to be completely clueless to what is going on around you and have chosen to dwell in the simpleton obtuse sentiments of the blind. Seems to me that your "vested interests" are mired in whining and ignorant understandings. From this, you draw upon for strength? Very sad.

Conflict said:
The funny thing is I have refined myself on this forum to be more amicable to less comprehensive posters. I have yet to use a big word. I'm no einstein.. I just have my beliefs... and I attempt to convey them well. How it is received is entirely your position. I've never stated that I was better than anybody.


Still searching for a way to talk to the adults? Poor fella - self-awareness is not a widespread human trait. Perhaps if you studied about what the more knowledgable of the site have been typing about to each other, you could contribute something worthy of reading instead of tripping all over yourself and constantly hurling your foot in your mouth. Instead, you "have your beliefs" which are not based on study, not based on analysis, not based on essays and books - but instead, based on emotion.

I hope this helps, but I doubt it. After all, you're "no Einstein" (Notice that "Einstein" is capitalized).
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by Conflict:
C'mon America! Be Scared of the Boogey Man.

How can one wage a war on terror and yet be so conducive to it's (terror's) application?

Guess what? We're not scared! MWuahaH!
Are you sure it's the Boogey Man? Maybe its really Chicken Little.
 

Ivan The Terrible

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Jim,


Your master?

Indeed. What... You have not realied it yet?

Anyway, if I had to hazard a guess, I would say the war started because Saddam invaded a strategically important US ally, lost, made promises to secure the cessation of the conflict he started (including to disclose the destruction of his WMDs, attempted to assassinate a former US president, was friendly to terrorists, violated his promises and continued to fail to disclose the destruction of the WMDs even as US forces gathered to strike.

Great answer... This I shall add to my knowledge.

Conflict,

It would be best for you to watch your tongue. If you wish to persent an alternate explain please feel free to do so. But please bring facts the table not conspiracy crap.
 

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Billo_Really said:
Are you sure it's the Boogey Man? Maybe its really Chicken Little.

Do NOT... bring chickens into this. They are more intelligent than anyone on here and deserve respect. I snap my finger at you! >SNAP!<
 

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Several factors led into the result of this war.
1. The administration's inadequancy to take out those truly responsible for the 9-11 attacks resulted in using Iraq as a scapegoat.
2. Suddam Hussein is already a disagreeable character around the U.S. and blaming him again, this time for non-existent WMDs, was a perfect excuse to not only bring freedom to an oppressed people but also to secure worldwide safety.
3. We then had a moral reason for going to war, then let all hell break loose, all in the name of freedom of course.
 

Donkey1499

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liberal1 said:
Several factors led into the result of this war.
1. The administration's inadequancy to take out those truly responsible for the 9-11 attacks resulted in using Iraq as a scapegoat.
2. Suddam Hussein is already a disagreeable character around the U.S. and blaming him again, this time for non-existent WMDs, was a perfect excuse to not only bring freedom to an oppressed people but also to secure worldwide safety.
3. We then had a moral reason for going to war, then let all hell break loose, all in the name of freedom of course.

1. Inadequecy? The world is a wide and far place. It's like looking for a needle in a haystack!

2. Non-existant? I'll bet they're in Syria, Lebannon, or some other place. We sure gave Hussein a lot of time to move those weapons out.

3. What's wrong with Iraqis having freedom? Why don't YOU try living under a brutal dictator and see how well you fare! You won't like it; Ill gurantee that!!!
 

Ivan The Terrible

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liberal number one,

Support your claim with facts!

1. The administration's inadequancy to take out those truly responsible for the 9-11 attacks resulted in using Iraq as a scapegoat.

Explain human! How is this so?

2. Suddam Hussein is already a disagreeable character around the U.S. and blaming him again, this time for non-existent WMDs, was a perfect excuse to not only bring freedom to an oppressed people but also to secure worldwide safety.

Bold add by Your Master....

So how is this a bad thing?

3. We then had a moral reason for going to war, then let all hell break loose, all in the name of freedom of course.

What is "all hell break loose" ?

Human, Your Master, demands that you take the time to full explain your postion!
 

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liberal1 said:
Several factors led into the result of this war.
1. The administration's inadequancy to take out those truly responsible for the 9-11 attacks resulted in using Iraq as a scapegoat.
2. Suddam Hussein is already a disagreeable character around the U.S. and blaming him again, this time for non-existent WMDs, was a perfect excuse to not only bring freedom to an oppressed people but also to secure worldwide safety.
3. We then had a moral reason for going to war, then let all hell break loose, all in the name of freedom of course.


1. Chasing down a speck of terrorists without dealing with the culture that continues to breed terrorists is stupid. 9/11 was a symptom of a larger disease. Educate yourself. How embarrasing for you.

2. "Non existent WMD?" There is much you don't know yet, because it hasn't been widely released. How embarrasing for you.

3. Criticisms from the bench warmers and uninvolved and are always from a "comfortable" position. People need to realize there is no snap answer, no magic wand, to plant a democracy in a geography that knew nothing but blood letting and torture under Saddam Hussein. The Middle East defies solution, but doing nothing is no longer acceptable. How embarrassing for you.

You should try to be constructive, rather than a slave to political masters. "All hell breaking loose" is extremely innacurate.
 

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GySgt said:
1. Chasing down a speck of terrorists without dealing with the culture that continues to breed terrorists is stupid. 9/11 was a symptom of a larger disease. Educate yourself. How embarrasing for you.

2. "Non existent WMD?" There is much you don't know yet, because it hasn't been widely released. How embarrasing for you.

3. Criticisms from the bench warmers and uninvolved and are always from a "comfortable" position. People need to realize there is no snap answer, no magic wand, to plant a democracy in a geography that knew nothing but blood letting and torture under Saddam Hussein. The Middle East defies solution, but doing nothing is no longer acceptable. How embarrassing for you.

You should try to be constructive, rather than a slave to political masters. "All hell breaking loose" is extremely innacurate.

So it is our repsonsibility for cleansing the world of terrorists, sing handed, against the wills of many other countries? Again, it seems the motto "Shot first ans ask questions later" still applies to the world. I agree that we should do our best to install a democracy, but I am against displacing a system of government and killing thousands of people without a just cause. And what reason would the current administration have for witholding such information on WMDs, expecially now that BUsh's approval rating is in the 30's or so. All hell breaking loose is very general, but by no means an inaccurate description of current events. Terrorists trying to take the government. Urban wafare still occuring regularly, car bombs. Also, please specify on this slave business. My views may be close to those of democrats, but by no means are from that political party. Just because I agree with an organization's policies does not mean I take my whole idealogy from that group.
 

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liberal1 said:
So it is our repsonsibility for cleansing the world of terrorists, sing handed, against the wills of many other countries? Again, it seems the motto "Shot first ans ask questions later" still applies to the world. I agree that we should do our best to install a democracy, but I am against displacing a system of government and killing thousands of people without a just cause. And what reason would the current administration have for witholding such information on WMDs, expecially now that BUsh's approval rating is in the 30's or so. All hell breaking loose is very general, but by no means an inaccurate description of current events. Terrorists trying to take the government. Urban wafare still occuring regularly, car bombs. Also, please specify on this slave business. My views may be close to those of democrats, but by no means are from that political party. Just because I agree with an organization's policies does not mean I take my whole idealogy from that group.

No. It is not our "job" to cleanse the world of terrorists. It is our "job" to cleanse the world of the terrorists that murder our people. As the super power, it is our "responsibility" to do what we can. And regardless, we should not be doing it alone, but thanks to our ungreatful allies, we largely are. However, it does no good to rid the earth of the symptoms and leave the disease to fester. The Middle East is a mess. We are witnessing the horrific mutation of a great world religion, and the Islamic world likely will prove the greatest breeding ground of apocalyptic terrorists in history. Their target is the western world and specifically America. The Middle East must change and we cannot afford to continue to look the other way, especially considering that Iran is seeking nuclear weapons. This means all Countries in the region, including Iraq.

Perhaps you remember last year when Marines found an underground bunker the size of three football fields? Well, there were three such findings and they were scattered around the Al-Anbar Province. Simple munitions and conventional weapons were reported as the contents. There was more. There was documents and equipment that implicates more than just Iraq. Other countries are involved and not all "enemy" nations.

This is a lot bigger than the President's polls. He has been taking a beating, because he must. We cannot afford to involve ourselves with other countries...not right now. This is the only reason I can think of why certain information that would raise his silly little polls has not been released. Perhaps we will hear something from these tapes. However, I would be very surprised if all was revealed.
 
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Jim

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liberal1 said:
So it is our repsonsibility for cleansing the world of terrorists, sing handed, against the wills of many other countries? Again, it seems the motto "Shot first ans ask questions later" still applies to the world. I agree that we should do our best to install a democracy, but I am against displacing a system of government and killing thousands of people without a just cause. And what reason would the current administration have for witholding such information on WMDs, expecially now that BUsh's approval rating is in the 30's or so. All hell breaking loose is very general, but by no means an inaccurate description of current events. Terrorists trying to take the government. Urban wafare still occuring regularly, car bombs. Also, please specify on this slave business. My views may be close to those of democrats, but by no means are from that political party. Just because I agree with an organization's policies does not mean I take my whole idealogy from that group.


No but it is our leaders' responsibility to thwart hostile, unstable leaders who are friendly with terrorists and either have WMDS or can acquire them. Saddam had WMDs, failed to disclose what happened to them, was completely unstable (e.g. he invaded a strategically important US ally, attempted to assassinate a former US president and continued to fail to disclose his supposed destruction of his WMDs even as the US forces gathered to take him down). Saddam had no moral limitations on his actions and, even worse, he was not capable of rational calculations.

However, what puts him in an absolutely unique position is that he invaded an ally of ours and lost and then failed to comply with his obligations.

Now, put yourself in the shoes of a foreign despot in the future and consider what you would learn from these events compared to the events that transpired when the last democratic US president was faced with real aggression agains the US or its allies.

Compare and contrast:

1. Iran Hostage Crisis - Lesson Learned: Use proxies to invade US territory and you get to thumb your nose at the US until the very day its wimpy President is finally chased out of office. PS: If a real leader is inaugurated, give the hostages back before the bombs start to fall!

2. Gulf War I - Lesson Learned: Invading an important ally of the United States may not be a good idea.

3. Gulf War II: Lesson Learned: If you invade a strategically important US ally, the United States spends its blood to repel your invasion and you lose the war, be prepared to toe the line in the future.

PS: The US may not trust you as much in the future compared to countries that have refrained from invading US allies.

PSS: Be prepared to document your compliance.
 
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justone

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liberal1 said:
So it is our repsonsibility for cleansing the world of terrorists, sing handed, against the wills of many other countries? .

SySgt did not say anything like this. Man, you are fighting with you own shadows and nightmares.
liberal1 said:
Again, it seems the motto "Shot first ans ask questions later" still applies to the world. .
It is you own shadow - SySgt did not say…. But, I can say: after a voice warning the first shot is in the air, if it does not stop – shoot to kill. And don’t ask questions, please.

liberal1 said:
I agree that we should do our best to install a democracy,

Please do not agree with installation of democracy – it sounds very undemocratic.

liberal1 said:
but I am against displacing a system of government and killing thousands of people without a just cause.

Is it OK to kill thousands if it is for your just cause?

liberal1 said:
And what reason would the current administration have for witholding such information on WMDs, expecially now that BUsh's approval rating is in the 30's or so.

So if approval rating is over 40’s it’s OK?. It’s should be connected to approval ratings?

liberal1 said:
All hell breaking loose is very general, but by no means an inaccurate description of current events.
You have not seen nothing, yet, - baby. I mean – hell.
liberal1 said:
Terrorists trying to take the government. Urban wafare still occuring regularly, car bombs.
What do expect from a war – should it be as pleasant as a gay parade in LA - we walk and everyone falls excited?
 

cnredd

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[PIE]Did someone
say pie?[/PIE]
 

Conflict

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A subservient apologist that calls himself GySgt said:
No. It is not our "job" to cleanse the world of terrorists. It is our "job" to cleanse the world of the terrorists that murder our people.

Where in the world is Osama Bin Laden?

Your political cleansing falls on deaf ears.

You deal with the intricate apology of the Bush Administration.

Your semantics are futile.
 

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Conflict said:
Where in the world is Osama Bin Laden?

Your political cleansing falls on deaf ears.

You deal with the intricate apology of the Bush Administration.

Your semantics are futile.


Still trying to be and adult while recovering from past emberrassments? I'll simply sum it up so that you can reply with yet another reason you are considered a dullard....

The ongoing Global War on Terrorism targets the current generation of terrorists; however, unless the ideology that spawned them is also countered the long-term threat to the U.S. will exponentially grow with time.

So, while you concern yourself soley and obtusely with little akhmed, Muhammed, and Osama...the military is concernig themselves with akhmed, Muhammed, Osama, and the civilization that will continue to breed more Akhmeds, Muhammeds, and Osamas.


Get it? Doubt it.
 

justone

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Jim said:
No but it is our leaders' responsibility to thwart hostile, unstable leaders who are friendly with terrorists and either have WMDS or can acquire them. Saddam ..., even worse, he was not capable of rational calculations.

However, what puts him in an absolutely unique position is that he invaded an ally of ours and lost and then failed to comply with his obligations.

Now, put yourself in the shoes of a foreign despot

.
I would not feel to comfortable in foreign despot shoes but let me use my imagination and put myself in the President’s shoes (just don’t call me Bush, rather give me no name, no party.) And let me say a few words for Saddam. Saddam for me is a very smart, experienced, pre-calculating his moves, and taking risks person, acting in a role of a dictator in Middle East.

Why would I start a war with him?
He inherited a 3 tribe country and did a lot killing in order to unite it, make it and keep it competitive under his leadership. I cannot judge him, because I don’t know, what would happen to those tribes without him. Could it be worse? Very much possible.
I am not even sure, that his cruelty and suppression exceeded many other dictators in the region.
Did he have confrontation with my friend Israel? Who of them did not? And, I bet there were even worse enemies of Israel around him! It is like a Muslim tradition.
Was he acquiring WMD? Of course! Now or later, - it was his duty, his job. Like Iran and all others around. I just had I little bit more useful better intelegence against him.
He also had women and Christians in the government and quite secular education.
Kuwait? It could be his mistake, but I don’t know about his rights. The borders in Middle East were drawn by the West in a very artificial way. And even if it was a mistake, he paid for it. As a good player, he turned it into his victory in view of his people, and should be given a credit.
Was he going to cooperate with terrorists? Sure, - at his will and need... It is a rule of the region. But he certainly was not the worst one. Syria looks a lot more relentless to me.
May be even Jordan, pretending to be my friend.

So, should I start a war with him?
Yes! Sorry, I don’t have a choice. I have to do my job, I have to bit terrorists as soon as possible.

He knew I did not have choice, when Powell did his first talk. The cards were dealt, Saddam picked up his cards, and the game, - war started. For me it was the moment when the war started, and I know he was quite smart to figure out that, too. I must accept he was an excellent player. He played his bribed friends, organized allies in UN, rallied Public Opinion in Europe and US. After Vietnam he knew he had a chance to bit US, even if US army defeated him. He kept me at his borders until the weather started working against me and Army was getting nervously relaxed. He strained my food and water supplies, my tanks were wearing off. If I did not do good job in UN and in America, if restrained by UN, or public opinion in US, I hesitated any longer, it would take a huge toll on troops and the whole war. If I ever retreated under any circumstances or resolutions He would have a victory bigger than Vietnam. He moved again to show everything to the inspectors, to make me stay still for another 6 months, and I had to command the attack. I was doing my job, he was doing his job, nothing personal. But his is good, SoB, he still has cards to play.
 

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Originally posted by Jim:
However, what puts him in an absolutely unique position is that he invaded an ally of ours and lost and then failed to comply with his obligations.
Since you brought up the subject of failed obligations, while we were supposed to be enforcing the no-fly zone, we were busy bombing the crap out of his country to try and provoke him into a war. It's convenient not discuss that part, isn't it?
 

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Billo_Really said:
Since you brought up the subject of failed obligations, while we were supposed to be enforcing the no-fly zone, we were busy bombing the crap out of his country to try and provoke him into a war. It's convenient not discuss that part, isn't it?


Well, that's because there isn't much to that twist of reality.
 
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