• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Why Did Marxism/Communism Scapegoat the Middle Class?

YouTube, Facebook and the rest if(sic) your friends software companies have banned thousands for having the ordacity(sic) to mention your friends crimes.

1. Private companies.

2. It's audacity.

3. Do you thing a private company must allow hate speech, holocaust denial and the like on their sites?

4. You keep saying "your friends". Spell it out.

They are or have oassed(sic) legislation which removes the right if free speech to talk of there(sic) atrocities! So much for American exceptionalism, a foreign nation dictates to American as they own the legistive(sic) power.

Cite the legislation you believe impinges on your right of free speech to talk of their "atrocities".

If it's American, especially software, it's dirty, low life, invasive, and certainly not moral!

Ignorant broadbrush BS.

If I could get Chinese software that stopped your ability to count, watch, make decisions, send preferential marketing.... I'd opt for Chinese every single time. I don't agree with what they consider their rights! If I could get Russian google windows type software, which was based on gem, American software would go straight in the bucket where it belongs.

Much of Chinese software is bootleg American software.

Your ignorance is astounding.
 
In some ways yes Russia was better served by the bolsheviks, in other ways not really. Women gained more rights and were able to work in more fields.

In Spain, the country would have been better served by the socialists than the fascist regime that took over and destroyed the prospect of women’s rights by bringing back honor killings.

The promise was there. And in some ways delivered.... Only to be flattened by Stalin, the lure of power and incompetence.
 
Your link!
Goodness me, China let's businesses fail..... dah..... ! I'm not even going to reply to that one!
Fanny Mae.... billions of dollars stolen from the American tax payer to keep bankrupt businesses afloat! That would be called stealing by any normal business man or woman! But you gave friends in the banking fraternity more than willing to legislate to give Americans more debt!
May I point out, again, while America's ecomony(sic) has shrunk, china will increase world trade expidentialky(sic) because they haven't a cancer on their banks as Americans do, and you know exactly who I'm talking about!

I notice you completely glossed over this part....

Chinese has nearly 500 million people living on less than $5.50 a day ($2000 annual), according to the World Bank .

Poverty level in the US is $12,700+ for a single person.

The US has 1.7% living on less than $5.50 a day.

economy, exponentially

And have the balls to spell out who you are talking about.
 
I notice you completely glossed over this part....

Chinese has nearly 500 million people living on less than $5.50 a day ($2000 annual), according to the World Bank .

Poverty level in the US is $12,700+ for a single person.

The US has 1.7% living on less than $5.50 a day.

economy, exponentially

And have the balls to spell out who you are talking about.
Everything is relative!
 
1. Private companies.

2. It's audacity.

3. Do you thing a private company must allow hate speech, holocaust denial and the like on their sites?

4. You keep saying "your friends". Spell it out.



Cite the legislation you believe impinges on your right of free speech to talk of their "atrocities".



Ignorant broadbrush BS.



Much of Chinese software is bootleg American software.

Your ignorance is astounding.
Your Zionist owned media!
 
Evidence COVID19 was "patented" in 2018?
Why, you would say it was lies! It was the jooozs..... or it's because I'm anti Semite..... just look at any post you have attacked, you my rubber boned friend of Zion, protects any Zionist business or profit scheme for Israel!
 
No.

Citation for Americans(sic) women (not all) pay for there eduction(sic) on their back.

Citation for skyscrapers just falling down

Citation for plastic forks and knives taking aircraft down.

Citation for the American flag being a military flag and not the government civilian flag.
You have already been forwarded to you!
 
You have already been forwarded to you!

Please lie again.

Citation for Americans(sic) women (not all) pay for there eduction(sic) on their back.

Citation for skyscrapers just falling down

Citation for plastic forks and knives taking aircraft down.

Citation for the American flag being a military flag and not the government civilian flag.
 
Why, you would say it was lies! It was the jooozs..... or it's because I'm anti Semite..... just look at any post you have attacked, you my rubber boned friend of Zion, protects any Zionist business or profit scheme for Israel!

Evidence COVID19 was "patented" in 2018?
 
Everything is relative!

Numbers mean things.

Your Zionist owned media!

Laughably simplistic.

Do you thing a private company must allow hate speech, holocaust denial and the like on their sites?

Cite the legislation you believe impinges on your right of free speech to talk of their "atrocities".
 
Marxism/communism really is the top 1% control everyone - and everyone else is impoverished peasants. That's what the super rich corporate fascists want too. The control every information outlet. The middle class and religious people are their enemy that must be destroyed.
 
Marxism/communism really is the top 1% control everyone - and everyone else is impoverished peasants. That's what the super rich corporate fascists want too. The control every information outlet. The middle class and religious people are their enemy that must be destroyed.

That is the opposite of Marxism. Unless, of course, the top 1% are the only ones performing any labour, which I suppose would be a 'dictatorship of the proletariat' transition toward Marxism. A society where 1% of the populations performs 100% of the labour and also has absolute political control seems very far fetched though.
 
Marx didnt invent the bourgeois class and proletarian class.
And Hitler invented neither Jews nor blond, blue-eyed aryans, yet here we are.

Fascists also invent internal enemies. It is the oppression of imperialism brought home.
That was what I was getting at. The nature of fascist enemies tend to be such that the group don't fall completely under the fascists' control, and so they can keep blaming them, even after they marginalize the ones under their control.
That matches the pattern of socialism's external enemies, but since socialism paints pictures of classes rather than nationalities or races, it also invents more purely internal enemiees. And replaces them as they are expended.
You don't have to read Solzhenitsyn to notice how practically every month a new internal group of people would be declared the reason for every problem in the Soviet Union. Internal scapegoats tend to run out faster than external ones.
Call it imperialism, class-ism, racism, sexism, or whatever you want. It is still just a matter of how you chose to define your tribes.
 
That is the opposite of Marxism. Unless, of course, the top 1% are the only ones performing any labour, which I suppose would be a 'dictatorship of the proletariat' transition toward Marxism. A society where 1% of the populations performs 100% of the labour and also has absolute political control seems very far fetched though.
It is the inevitable outcome of Marxism and every other collectivist ideology. They have no quality control for individual rights, and so have no safeguards against tyranny. This should be Civics 101, really.
 
It is the inevitable outcome of Marxism and every other collectivist ideology. They have no quality control for individual rights, and so have no safeguards against tyranny. This should be Civics 101, really.

'Collectivist ideology' just means humans cooperating with each other and pooling their assets toward a common goal. I get a vote, along with the other shareholders, on who will represent my interests on the board of directors for a company that I own stock in. The vote doesn't always go my way, and sometimes a company will use my capital to pay for things that I might not think will necessarily benefit me. If I lose enough confidence in the company, my recourse is to sell my shares. That is 'collectivist ideology' and also happens to be how Capitalism works.

The shareholders of a Democratic Republic also get a vote in who will represent their interests. The vote doesn't always go their way, and people who didn't support universal healthcare still end up paying for it. If they lose enough confidence in the nation, their recourse is to expatriate. That is 'collectivist ideology' and doesn't lead to the 1% having control over everyone else, as demonstrated by its success in most of the industrialized world.

None of that has anything to do with Marxism, which shouldn't really be in your Civics 101 curriculum at all. Marxism and Capitalism belong in Economics 101.

A better example of Marxism is open source software, where the labour contribution of each developer is pushed to a commonly held source code repository like GitHub, and each developer receives back their quantum of labour in full, enhanced by the contributions of their fellow developers, with no surplus-labour being siphoned away by the CEO of AutoDesk to fuel up his yacht.
 
Numbers mean things.



Laughably simplistic.

Do you thing a private company must allow hate speech, holocaust denial and the like on their sites?

Cite the legislation you believe impinges on your right of free speech to talk of their "atrocities".
How about, the murder of Americans or there children, in drone strikes and without oversight?


The laws passed after 9/11 to go to any country to commit murder, assassination, bomb, car bomb, recruit terrorists or organisations like the American backed MKO,to incite murder genocide or terror..... for starters.... my German friend of Zion..... notice again the cynical attempt to deflect from Israels dirty fingers on
American foreign policy and strategies.
 
There's a weird relationship between a lot of conservatives, particularly in America, and the word "collectivism".

Many tend to have this impulsive response to the word without even properly understanding its meaning or putting it into context. I don't know if it comes from libertarian philosophy and some of the thinkers from that side of the pond or what, but there is definitely a conditioned response to anything which is outside of the dogmatic hyper-individualism that is professed in most libertarian circles.

I was under the impression that underlying all of "conservatism" was the value of structured hierarchies, order, and necessarily tradition. All of these things are chalk full of collectivist thought and organization, so if you're a conservative, then you necessarily support collectivism.
 
Last edited:
'Collectivist ideology' just means humans cooperating with each other and pooling their assets toward a common goal. I get a vote, along with the other shareholders, on who will represent my interests on the board of directors for a company that I own stock in. The vote doesn't always go my way, and sometimes a company will use my capital to pay for things that I might not think will necessarily benefit me. If I lose enough confidence in the company, my recourse is to sell my shares. That is 'collectivist ideology' and also happens to be how Capitalism works.

The shareholders of a Democratic Republic also get a vote in who will represent their interests. The vote doesn't always go their way, and people who didn't support universal healthcare still end up paying for it. If they lose enough confidence in the nation, their recourse is to expatriate. That is 'collectivist ideology' and doesn't lead to the 1% having control over everyone else, as demonstrated by its success in most of the industrialized world.

None of that has anything to do with Marxism, which shouldn't really be in your Civics 101 curriculum at all. Marxism and Capitalism belong in Economics 101.

A better example of Marxism is open source software, where the labour contribution of each developer is pushed to a commonly held source code repository like GitHub, and each developer receives back their quantum of labour in full, enhanced by the contributions of their fellow developers, with no surplus-labour being siphoned away by the CEO of AutoDesk to fuel up his yacht.
With the greatest respect, a long winded puff of wind!
Profit equals unpaid labour!
All businesses must make profit, I don't think anyone but an idiot would say differently! Or it the business simply wouldn't exist! Detrimental to employer and employee!
But then government steps in, it can either allow greed to exceed or create balance or equilibrium of interest, or legislate to the detriment of the employer.
In U.K. And USA that ideas can be thrown straight in the bucket and that doesn't include preference or ordinary shares and how they can be manipulated or sold short!
Special interests and groups have infiltrated the democratic values and corruptly and by guile undermining any semblence of balance of public and private, legal and illegal, right and wrong!
I know of one company who bought another, the owner thought he could get away with lowering the wages of the business he bought! He told the Rep, they get what my guys get paid! After a year, and twenty driver appeared at court, (after the Rep had been offered a brown envelope of money) the new owner if the company was legally forced to go into his back pocket and pay these drivers over a million pounds of back wages! That my friend, is greed! A loaf of bread costs everyone the same, but because we still have some employment laws still on statute these drivers got redress, since then, the laws have been changed and it's more difficult to any redress in law, and then extreme behaviour becomes the norm! There is nothing good about American or Westminster, the extremes we are at now, the deliberate policy to create hunger and starvation.... is the road millions are on,
In a dictatorship or Pluticracy, the rich win! Society becomes unstable people go hungry and extremists are created to curtail social unrest, or attempts to unify society by creating world war exactly where we are at the moment!
Good on you you have shares, but don't think for one moment unless your owning millions of dollars in shares, your a rich man, you deceive only yourself if you do!
 
There's a weird relationship between a lot of conservatives, particularly in America, and the word "collectivism".

Many tend to have this impulsive response to the word without even properly understanding its meaning or putting it into context. I don't know if it comes from libertarian philosophy and some of the thinkers from that side of the pond or what, but there is definitely a conditioned response to anything which is outside of the dogmatic hyper-individualism that is professed in most libertarian circles.

I was under the impression that underlying all of "conservatism" was the value of structured hierarchies, order, and necessarily tradition. All of these things are chalk full of collectivist thought and organization, so if you're a conservative, then you necessarily support collectivism.
Collectivism is that another word for socialism but the capitalism version? For the rich to pass laws to ensure they stay rich?
 
Collectivism is that another word for socialism?
No. There are parts of socialism which can be described as "collectivist", but the two words have separate meanings. "Socialism" is almost purely political whereas collectivist can be used to describe a number of things inside and outside of politics.
 
No. There are parts of socialism which can be described as "collectivist", but the two words have separate meanings. "Socialism" is almost purely political whereas collectivist can be used to describe a number of things inside and outside of politics.
I concur with your submission but if I can point out, socialism has a different meaning depending on your country of origin.!
 
No. There are parts of socialism which can be described as "collectivist", but the two words have separate meanings. "Socialism" is almost purely political whereas collectivist can be used to describe a number of things inside and outside of politics.

I disagree. Socialism is almost purely economical, and relates only to a mode of production. A Socialist economy could exist within a pure democracy, a democratic republic, an absolute monarchy, or any other type of political establishment.
 
I disagree. Socialism is almost purely economical, and relates only to a mode of production. A Socialist economy could exist within a pure democracy, a democratic republic, an absolute monarchy, or any other type of political establishment.
"Economical" over "political" is probably more descriptive, I think.

So yes I agree.
 
Every political movement must have it's scapegoat, in order to unite the people in feeling a common loathing for a segment of society, or outsiders. The Nazi's enemy was obviously Jews and capitalists. China's enemy is the West. And neoliberal American's scapegoat is cis gendered white people.

But why did Marxism/Communism demonize the middle classes? They literally bypassed the decadent wealthy class, and the usual object of scorn, the peasant class.

Conversely, how did Marxism/Commusim manage to convince people that the proletariat were the shining city on a hill to be admired, when the proles were such cowards that they refused to fight for their own cause?

So much about the appeal of Marxism/Communism boggles the mind, that you wonder how people fell for this.
you must be joking ? for all 75 years ussr couldn't create the middle class at home. the middle classes can exist only in countries with private base economics , how could middle classes agree to become Moscow´s slaves?
 
How about, the murder of Americans or there children, in drone strikes and without oversight?

The laws passed after 9/11 to go to any country to commit murder, assassination, bomb, car bomb, recruit terrorists or organisations like the American backed MKO,to incite murder genocide or terror..... for starters.... my German Ifriend of Zion..... notice again the cynical attempt to deflect from Israels dirty fingers on
American foreign policy and strategies.

Another rant that has nothing to do with the post quoted.

Evidence COVID19 was "patented" in 2018?


Do you thing a private company must allow hate speech, holocaust denial and the like on their sites?

Cite the legislation you believe impinges on your right of free speech to talk of their "atrocities".

Citation for Americans(sic) women (not all) pay for there eduction(sic) on their back.

Citation for skyscrapers just falling down

Citation for plastic forks and knives taking aircraft down.

Citation for the American flag being a military flag and not the government civilian flag
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom