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Why Democrats fear the Trump wall

I’m not saying that there is no merit at all to a wall, but using fake stats undermines one’s position.

I don’t know what the magic number is for Democrats. I doubt they have one. But then people on both sides of the aisle accept some risk and casualties in the name of economics or liberty. Plenty of conservatives believe climate change is real but believe the proposed fixes aren’t economically worth while. Conservatives, and I, oppose all sorts of regulations that save some lives because it is economically problematic. I think the wall would stop some, but not most, illegals. I and many others just don’t think it is economically worth while.

I feel like a lot of pro-wall people use a different cost/benefit analysis than they use for just about every other thing in their life. Which leads me to believe that for many of them their motives are based in ideology instead of practicality. And yes, many of those on the left are guilty of the the same inconsistency. They are willing to spend tons of money and restrict liberty in other areas in exchange for marginal benefits but aren’t willing to do the same for the wall, which would also cost a lot of money and would also have some marginal benefits.

Why can’t everyone just be consistent in how they weigh issues?

The only way trump gets his wall is if he offers up something big in return.

The most likely item to be exchanged for the wall: DACA.
 
How many terrorists and illegal invaders (rapists, murderers, gang bangers) are acceptable to Democrats?

Based on the link, seems like we need two walls. Maybe Canada and Mexico can pay as part of the new (same old) NAFTA. Then, of course, we can mine our harbors to keep the Haitians and Cubans out.

Used to have a prof, who when a student made a statement like Trump did about the terrible ten, would say what Nancy should have, “name three.”
 
This is why Pelosi wants this discussed behind closed doors.

It is a losing proposition for Democrats...

3029 illegal invaders isn’t a crisis for Democrats either... for them the invasion is desired.

10 terrorists a day is simply collateral damage.

Unfortunately for them, Trump will squeeze the Open Border Party... publicly and often.

There are no 10 terrorists a day. Its another Trump fantasy like the French protestors are shouting "We want Trump".
 
This post is a great example of right-wing nut paranoia.

12 to 30 million illegals.

The courts and cities protecting criminal illegals.

Illegals murdering and raping US citizens.

The hundreds of billions in costs to the US taxpayer.

And... an open border for terrorists.

Nice to know that’s the hill Democrats are going to die on in protecting their desire for an open border.
 
How many are to you, considering you aren't clamoring for a wall on the northern border?

There isn’t a need for one there. North of the border, that 3rd rate country called Canada (which I am posting from at the moment), is halfway civilized and educated.

It’s the invaders from the ****hole countries south of the border that are the problem.
 
The only reason to fear Trump's {so far imaginary] wall is they'll have egg on their faces. For so long it's looked like a pie in the sky project, a fake promise and an impractical use of budget, for so long have the Dems been trading on the fact that it makes Trump look stupid, that if he gets what he wants it'll be a big loss of face for them.

However since they'll hold the purse strings come January I can;t possibly see them forking over the cash. So, no wall.

It's a stupid idea. It grew out of a riff Trump tossed out at a campaign rally that caught on. Why should taxpayers fund nonsense just because Trump got his dinkie-winkie wrapped up in it?
 
The only reason to fear Trump's {so far imaginary] wall is they'll have egg on their faces. For so long it's looked like a pie in the sky project, a fake promise and an impractical use of budget, for so long have the Dems been trading on the fact that it makes Trump look stupid, that if he gets what he wants it'll be a big loss of face for them.

However since they'll hold the purse strings come January I can;t possibly see them forking over the cash. So, no wall.

Watch Trump shut down the government and make life miserable for democrats.

You must recall... Trump won based largely on this one issue... and he’s not fearful of what the Goebbels Media and their party screeches.

The longer it goes on, the worse for Democrats.

History, the associated stories, criminalities, murders, drug trafficking all work in Trump’s favor. It’s why Pelosi was pleading to have that discussion behind closed doors.
 
12 to 30 million illegals.

The courts and cities protecting criminal illegals.

Illegals murdering and raping US citizens.

The hundreds of billions in costs to the US taxpayer.

And... an open border for terrorists.

Nice to know that’s the hill Democrats are going to die on in protecting their desire for an open border.

More absolute bull****. Democrats are as concerned about National Security as right-wing nuts are. We just thing the blowing hundreds of billions on just a symbolic gesture that won't do anything to curb illegal immigration is stupid.

Thanks.
 
How many terrorists and illegal invaders (rapists, murderers, gang bangers) are acceptable to Democrats?

You can easily ask Republicans exactly the same question because Trump's "solution" is no solution to illegal immigration or asylum seekers and the whole rapists, murderers and gang bangers thing as it relate to the border is a red herring.

It is not an issue of "fearing" the Wall. It is an issue of pouring money down a rathole without solving any of the issues Trump points to.

What we need is:
- soundly considered border security which will and should include physical barriers integrated into a complete system
- Bollard Fencing of differing heights, differing lengths and in the right places is very likely the best physical barrier piece to a complete border security puzzle
- while Bollard Fencing should be effective as a physical barrier it does not offer the same sort of geopolitical optics that only the autocrat loving Donald prefers but that every American should detest
- 1,100 new miles of any physical barrier atop what we already have is likely unrealistic and ineffective and nobody knows if Donald Duck thinks 1,100 miles is enough. In fact Donald does not know. He will toss 1,100 miles of something out there eventually and wait to see if his base cheers or not

If we really care about illegal immigration and asylum seekers and drug addiction we need to spread money around between:
- sensible aid to Central American countries aimed at keeping those people home
- soundly considered border security and an integrated system of technology, physical barriers and personnel
- a better system of processing for asylum seekers including about 400 more judges (not the thousands Donald Duck blathers on about)
- dealing with drug addition at the demand side of the equation. The bulk of drugs entering this country by far comes through ports of entry. Wall does nothing.


The gang bangers, rapists and murders are already here...many of them tonally lighter in color than Central American immigrants and asylum seekers who are for the most part less afraid of the US government than they were of the corrupt governments they left but are none the less scared to death of the US government and as such living in the shadows afraid to expose themselves to possible legal problems.

Once the Right stops yammering about nonsense we might have something to talk about.
 
This is why Pelosi wants this discussed behind closed doors.

It is a losing proposition for Democrats...

3029 illegal invaders isn’t a crisis for Democrats either... for them the invasion is desired.

10 terrorists a day is simply collateral damage.

Unfortunately for them, Trump will squeeze the Open Border Party... publicly and often.

The numbers may grow no thanks to the liberal/Demos.
 
More absolute bull****. Democrats are as concerned about National Security as right-wing nuts are. We just thing the blowing hundreds of billions on just a symbolic gesture that won't do anything to curb illegal immigration is stupid.

Thanks.

The Modern Democrat Party history is one of hostility to our intel services, our military and national security.

They’re more interested in serving illegal invaders than American citizens.

If you don’t like it, change your party... or change parties.
 
You can easily ask Republicans exactly the same question because Trump's "solution" is no solution to illegal immigration or asylum seekers and the whole rapists, murderers and gang bangers thing as it relate to the border is a red herring.

It is not an issue of "fearing" the Wall. It is an issue of pouring money down a rathole without solving any of the issues Trump points to.

What we need is:
- soundly considered border security which will and should include physical barriers integrated into a complete system
- Bollard Fencing of differing heights, differing lengths and in the right places is very likely the best physical barrier piece to a complete border security puzzle
- while Bollard Fencing should be effective as a physical barrier it does not offer the same sort of geopolitical optics that only the autocrat loving Donald prefers but that every American should detest
- 1,100 new miles of any physical barrier atop what we already have is likely unrealistic and ineffective and nobody knows if Donald Duck thinks 1,100 miles is enough. In fact Donald does not know. He will toss 1,100 miles of something out there eventually and wait to see if his base cheers or not

If we really care about illegal immigration and asylum seekers and drug addiction we need to spread money around between:
- sensible aid to Central American countries aimed at keeping those people home
- soundly considered border security and an integrated system of technology, physical barriers and personnel
- a better system of processing for asylum seekers including about 400 more judges (not the thousands Donald Duck blathers on about)
- dealing with drug addition at the demand side of the equation. The bulk of drugs entering this country by far comes through ports of entry. Wall does nothing.


The gang bangers, rapists and murders are already here...many of them tonally lighter in color than Central American immigrants and asylum seekers who are for the most part less afraid of the US government than they were of the corrupt governments they left but are none the less scared to death of the US government and as such living in the shadows afraid to expose themselves to possible legal problems.

Once the Right stops yammering about nonsense we might have something to talk about.

Democrats and their idiotic schemes have burdened the country and its future citizens with 205 TRILLION in unfunded liabilities and 20 TRILLION in debt.

The Democrat stand on illegal invaders has cost America hundreds of billions.

Walls work.

Democrats know this.


But, instead of protecting the border (they swore an oath to protect America from foreign enemies), Democrats choose to cater to the illegal invaders. This is the Democrat Party history. It’s a stink Democrats cannot wash off, and one Trump will smash you with...

...and rightly so.

For the good of the nation.

You want Open Borders... OK. Own it... and you do want them, and Pelosi illustrated how uncomfortable these facts are. Pleading Pelosi cowered in front of the camera’s... begging to discuss their weakness on this issue behind closed doors.

If Democrats had a strong hand, Pelosi wouldn;t have pleaded to Trump.

She did... and it will make a wonderful political ad.
 
The Modern Democrat Party history is one of hostility to our intel services, our military and national security.

The "Democrat Party" is hostile to intel agencies, huh?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...cies-expect-them-to-strike-back-idUSKBN1K82AB

The foundations of American national security are under assault. The battle lines are drawn. On one side stand the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Central Intelligence Agency, the National Security Agency. On the other: the commander-in-chief of the United States. Trump called the investigation of the Russian operation by special counsel Robert S. Mueller “a disaster for our country.” He accepted Vladimir Putin’s denial that anything of the kind ever happened. Trump likewise leapt at and embraced Putin’s cynical and empty proposal to cooperate with Mueller – “an incredible offer,” he said. The likelihood of Moscow’s spies willingly sharing secrets with the FBI is nil.

I guess you don't follow current events very closely, my misguided friend

They’re more interested in serving illegal invaders than American citizens.

If you don’t like it, change your party... or change parties.

And your party turns it's back on National security by being ok with trump bending over for Russia and his toadies like Nunes and Graham defending him. I'm fine with my party, zimster! The question is - why are you fine with yours?
 
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Democrats and their idiotic schemes have burdened the country and its future citizens with 205 TRILLION in unfunded liabilities and 20 TRILLION in debt.

The Democrat stand on illegal invaders has cost America hundreds of billions.

Walls work.

Democrats know this.


But, instead of protecting the border (they swore an oath to protect America from foreign enemies), Democrats choose to cater to the illegal invaders. This is the Democrat Party history. It’s a stink Democrats cannot wash off, and one Trump will smash you with...

...and rightly so.

For the good of the nation.

You want Open Borders... OK. Own it... and you do want them, and Pelosi illustrated how uncomfortable these facts are. Pleading Pelosi cowered in front of the camera’s... begging to discuss their weakness on this issue behind closed doors.

If Democrats had a strong hand, Pelosi wouldn;t have pleaded to Trump.

She did... and it will make a wonderful political ad.

Right wing false narrative alert.....That said, I can usually post the same thing in response to most of what the New Right posts up. The "dems" want open borders thing is quite possibly the largest conflation of the decade. If anything Corporatists might want open borders and there are actually more Republican Corporatists and Dem Corporatists even if only marginally so.
 
The "Democrat Party" is hostile to intel agencies, huh?

I guess you don't follow current events very closely, my misguided friend

I'm fine with my party, zimster! The question is - why are you fine with yours?

Yes... Democrats have a long, perfect history of hostility to the intel services and military.

How many in the upper echelon of the intel community have been removed? How many tried to bring Trump down?

Yep, he’s been hard on the corrupt deep staters who tried to **** him... and rightly so.

That’s not hostility to the rank & file, but the corrupt brass.

And Democrats illustrate their hostility to national security often.

Like their wanting to kill ICE.

Their weakness on the border and disdain for border agents.

Their hostility to cops... and thanks to Obama, many have been killed due to his idiocies.

The military... you folks spit on the troops.

You gut the military every chance you get.

And then you feign support... ROTFLOL... only a retard would believe you, and your party is replete with retards.
 
This is why Pelosi wants this discussed behind closed doors.

It is a losing proposition for Democrats...

3029 illegal invaders isn’t a crisis for Democrats either... for them the invasion is desired.

10 terrorists a day is simply collateral damage.

Unfortunately for them, Trump will squeeze the Open Border Party... publicly and often.

I fear throwing money down a ****hole to placate the brain-fart of America's first moron president
 
Right wing false narrative alert.....That said, I can usually post the same thing in response to most of what the New Right posts up. The "dems" want open borders thing is quite possibly the largest conflation of the decade. If anything Corporatists might want open borders and there are actually more Republican Corporatists and Dem Corporatists even if only marginally so.

Democrats, after amnesty in 1985 or 86... were supposed to secure the border. They didn’t.

You “can’t post the same thing”.

The Democrat Party is the Open Borders Party... just as it is the tax & spend, and hostile to the military party.
 
I fear throwing money down a ****hole to placate the brain-fart of America's first moron president

Democrats fear the wall... because they know it works.
 
Yes... Democrats have a long, perfect history of hostility to the intel services and military.

How many in the upper echelon of the intel community have been removed? How many tried to bring Trump down?

Yep, he’s been hard on the corrupt deep staters who tried to **** him... and rightly so.

That’s not hostility to the rank & file, but the corrupt brass.

And Democrats illustrate their hostility to national security often.

Like their wanting to kill ICE.

Their weakness on the border and disdain for border agents.

Their hostility to cops... and thanks to Obama, many have been killed due to his idiocies.

The military... you folks spit on the troops.

You gut the military every chance you get.

And then you feign support... ROTFLOL... only a retard would believe you, and your party is replete with retards.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! I love the smell of right-wing nut revisionist history in the morning!
 
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! I love the smell of right-wing nut revisionist history in the morning!

Nothing revisionist about it.

There is long established history there. Nobody forced Democrats to behave this way... they chose to be hostile to national security entities.

And then there is the Deep State behavior related to trying to usurp Trump.

When the top echelon of the Deep State is looking at an “insurance policy” related to Trump... you have a corrupt top echelon.
 
Nothing revisionist about it.

There is long established history there. Nobody forced Democrats to behave this way... they chose to be hostile to national security entities.

And then there is the Deep State behavior related to trying to usurp Trump.

When the top echelon of the Deep State is looking at an “insurance policy” related to Trump... you have a corrupt top echelon.

Dude, I don't even thing you believe the things you post.
 
This guy said it best:

You cannot claim law and order as a principle for your stance on immigration, Clinton emails, etc. while defending a president who flouts the law by telling others like Tillerson, Comey, and Cohen to break the law for him. You either value the law or you don't. So can we stop pretending that Trump supporters have any principles or morals? They are trying to maintain a power hierarchy that favors white, Christian males. That is all they are as evidenced by how they are now rationalizing yet another amoral and unlawful action by their chosen leader.
 
Trump's immigration stance in this caravan episode has been
tactically splendid. He has them
flanked by beefed up border security on one side and an angry
large city that doesn't want them around
on the other. No president since Eisenhower has been as
impressive in stopping illegal intrusions into the USA.

Orban of Hungary has been far more effective than Trump but Hungary like the USA
used to be, is Fueled by ethnonationalism, he has therefore a much easier task, even though
the big sister of Europe tried to fine Hungary for not taking migrants.

Péter Szijjártó his top minister: What a patriotic statement

“What we don’t want is a massive illegal influx coming from the
south to us. We want to keep Hungary a Hungarian country. And we
don’t think multiculturalism is by definition good,” he
explained. “I understand that the liberal mainstream doesn’t like
our laws. But it is the Hungarian voters whose expectations we
have to fulfill.”
 
Trump's immigration stance in this caravan episode has been
tactically splendid. He has them
flanked by beefed up border security on one side and an angry
large city that doesn't want them around
on the other. No president since Eisenhower has been as
impressive in stopping illegal intrusions into the USA.

Orban of Hungary has been far more effective than Trump but Hungary like the USA
used to be, is Fueled by ethnonationalism, he has therefore a much easier task, even though
the big sister of Europe tried to fine Hungary for not taking migrants.

Péter Szijjártó his top minister: What a patriotic statement

“What we don’t want is a massive illegal influx coming from the
south to us. We want to keep Hungary a Hungarian country. And we
don’t think multiculturalism is by definition good,” he
explained. “I understand that the liberal mainstream doesn’t like
our laws. But it is the Hungarian voters whose expectations we
have to fulfill.”

Barack Obama reduced illegal border crossings by a much larger margin than Trump has. Check the stats on illegal border crossings for 2008 to 2016 vs the last 2 years. Trump should be asking Obama what his secret was.
 
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