ptsdkid said:Paying off the National debt? Could you explain to me what this National Debt is? Explain to me what this debt includes and who owes who the money? And if you figure who it is that is owed money from who--then tell me why you think it wise for the debtors to pay these mysterious debtees. Is it the government that owes money to someone? You do know that 'we tax payers' are the government. So if it is so important for you to feel somehow more secure or vindicated by paying out huge amounts of money to some unknown source--then you must be advocating for Bush and our Congress to impliment a tax increase to pay this troubling debt. This post is probably as clear to you as paying off this National debt is to the average tax paying American citizen....that is, not very clear or wise at all.
nkgupta80 said:its not an unknown source..its only unknown to you. The debt belongs to foreigners, the public, etc.
Read up the US public debt on wikipedia or something and its implications.
ptsdkid said:I still don't get what you mean by this debt owed to the public. By public you are referring to me and yourself. So am I going to be considered one of these payees? And by foreign debt, does that compare to the unpaid foreign debt owed to us by countries like France and Germany from WWII? They never paid their foreign debt to us, and it didn't seem to affect their financial or worldwide standing one bit. So I repeat, why not just renage on paying this foreign debt? What country do you suppose would punish us if we were to tell them to kiss off--you're not getting one penny?
ptsdkid said:I still don't get what you mean by this debt owed to the public. By public you are referring to me and yourself. So am I going to be considered one of these payees?
ptsdkid said:And by foreign debt, does that compare to the unpaid foreign debt owed to us by countries like France and Germany from WWII? They never paid their foreign debt to us, and it didn't seem to affect their financial or worldwide standing one bit. So I repeat, why not just renage on paying this foreign debt? What country do you suppose would punish us if we were to tell them to kiss off--you're not getting one penny?
Mikkel said:I'd imagine that China (one of the bigger, if not the biggest, countries to buy up our national debt) might be a little peeved if we didn't pay them back at some point. Especially since, you know, they're communist and have a lot of nukes and stuff.
American arrogance doesn't solve every problem known to man, unfortunately, so I don't think your plan will work. Believe me when I tell you that the global economy is the biggest factor preventing WW3 right now, and if we shrug off our trading partners like you suggest it will hurt, and it will hurt bad.
ptsdkid said:Excuse me, but I'm lost again...my bad. Are you saying that we owe China the biggest portion of our debt...if not all? Or are you saying that China would be kind enough to pay off our foreign debt just because they're thankful and apreciative for us turning them onto bluejeans and McDonalds restaurants?
The global economy is not the biggest factor in preventing WWIII. We are currently in WWIII as I write. The muslim world has clearly stated that they are going to kill we westerners. The holy war (jihad) is seen daily in the form of worldwide terrorist attacks. The call has already gone out to create a new 21st century Caliphate to assume the leadership role to these modern day Crusades. I don't think they have to look very far to annoint Louis Farrakhan to the position of Caliphate. You hear nothing but hate and destruction for the westerner from dear old Louis.
So back to your insistance to paying off this huge debt that so concerns you. Could you be a little more specific on what foreign entity we owe this money to, and approximately how much money we owe to each entity--and why we owe this money, and why you feel the need to pay up?
I haven't heard anything more on this national debt owed to the public. I just don't get that one either. If I'm the public, and I pay taxes to the government--wouldn't I be paying myself if I were to help pay down this public debt?
TimmyBoy said:Generally, when people go to work, they go to work for themselves and for their loved ones. They do not go to work because they want to make money for the government. Though some taxation is certainly justified because government needs money to run and pay it's workers to protect personal and property rights of citizens, the current taxation is not justified. Here is why:
1. Politicans at the current time, must now raise taxes or come up with a plan to completely and totally wipe out the national debt. By allowing the national debt to exist, it has the potential to harm economic growth. The national debt should be totally paid off otherwise, the current level or possible higher level of taxation must continue indefinately.
2. The current level of taxation, though it doesn't take away completely the incentive for productive members of society to work it certainly does place an unjust penalty, a burden and has the effect of discouraging the productive members of society to work harder because by working harder it places them in a higher tax bracket which punishes them more for being productive. The current taxation is punishment and not payment of legitimately needed government services. This current level of taxation shouldn't exist because if the political leadership in Washington did it's job properly, their would be no national debt, nor the expansion of government to it's current levels that would require such a high and punishing level of taxation. When you punish the productive members of society with the current high level of taxation, you take away their incentive to be productive, innovative and to take risks because alot of the rewards would go to the government rather than the productive individual. This also has the effect of crushing jobs creation and causing a higher unemployment level for the poor.
3. The current level of taxation and national debt also hurts the poor since it hurts the more productive members of society because it discourages jobs creation. It causes the poor to stay in the state of being poor and much more difficult to move up. It also has the effect of creating more poverty.
A higher level of taxation could be justified IF that higher level were to go to completely and totally pay off the national debt and IF after the national debt was paid off, a dramatic reduction in taxes were imposed in order to encourage productivity. The ideal situation is to find a way to pay off the national debt without harming economic growth if at all possible and once that is accomplish, scale back the size of government and taxation to encourage people to work, since, with much less taxation hypothetically speaking that is lower than today's current level, people would have more incentive to go work and be more productive, plus more money would be available for the economy to invest or to start new businesses with since the government didn't swallow it up through excessive taxation. This would also have the effect of more jobs creation and the poor being able to make more money and move up the class ladder.
ptsdkid said:Excuse me, but I'm lost again...my bad. Are you saying that we owe China the biggest portion of our debt...if not all? Or are you saying that China would be kind enough to pay off our foreign debt just because they're thankful and apreciative for us turning them onto bluejeans and McDonalds restaurants?
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