• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Why close national parks

Does this figure take into account the money saved on the unpaid government salaries???

Or did the government employees still receive their paychecks regardless of the shutdown???

...

The government employees were given back pay after the last shut downs.

From this article:
63. Would federal employees get paid retroactively, even if they didn't work? Maybe. Congress granted retroactive pay to furloughed workers after the shutdowns of the mid-1990s, but that wouldn't necessarily happen again. "I believe this time is going to be much different. This is a much different Congress than the 1995 Congress," said Cox, federal employee union president. "I'm not sure that they'd even want to go back and pay the people who worked."

66 questions and answers about the government shutdown
 
Last edited:
I know the last shut down cost our taxpayers many billions of dollars.

Right now according to this article the shut down is costing the state of Michigan an estimated 18 million dollars a day...and we just have one small national park.

Government shutdown costing Michigan $18 million per day, budget director says | MLive.com

So the article didn't outline where the 18 million per day comes from. It states there were no union furloughs, that WIC and Foodstamps are still funded for another 2 weeks and a month respectively. The states has a 580 million dollars rainy day fund they're NOT willing to use if needed - yet there was no breakdown of how 18 million per day was calculated or where it comes from. I'm a bit skeptical that 18 million is real and it's possible that number is politically motivated. At least, the article doesn't address the 18 million at all, where it comes from, what it's composed of, etc... maybe it's just a badly written article.


Here is a link to an article about how the shutdown is hurting your state.

One Nation Under Shutdown: Here's How Congress Is Hurting Your State

So NJ only has furloughed military base workers (NJ is my state). Since those are federal employees and they were furloughed, they can (and will I would hope) collect unemployment - so basically they get time off and get unemployment for as long as the furlough goes on. That sounds like paid vacation to me.

Federal workers can collect unemployment during shutdown - Oct. 1, 2013
 
Are you in favor of shutting down the govt. or not? The fact is that National Park employees work for the Federal govt. Is that so confusing that you must blame Obama for it? Your minority party shut down the govt. and laid off 800,000 workers because they don't understand what losing an election means. There is no spinning it any other way.

Hint: landforms don't disappear when the government shuts down. I sear! I can see a national forest and a national park by stepping outside in the daytime. Shockingly, they're still there!
 
They need to be guarded whether they are officially open or not and in some cases need even more guards to keep people out now that they are closed.

Not really.

Sandy Hook there's one road on and one road off. And it's just "guarded" with a barrier and a cop who drives a roving patrol (I've snuck on at night, after hours, in order to fish). I'm sure there are Parks personnel out at the end where all the buildings and stuff are but I would suspect that with the shutdown it's just a skeleton crew. I never went out in that direction during non-business hours surreptitiously so I couldn't say. I've been out there after normal hours legally and I saw neither hide nor hair of any employees other than a Parks Police cop driving his usual patrol and the state Fish & Game warden.

Morristown is a collection of buildings in the center of town. They lock the buildings and it's otherwise patrolled by Morristown municipal police. I've worked there in the past and I know the current director/archivist.

So, they hardly need to call out the National Guard and turn these places into hard targets because of a shutdown.

Anyhow, aside from "civilian" guards and Parks Police, consider all of the administrative, maintenance, part-time staff (concessions, gift shops, book stores, etc..) curatorial, interpretive, and other "professional" employees. Not to mention the Rangers.

As with most endeavors that involve people carrying guns the tooth to tail ratio of guns to bean counters is usually very heavily skewed toward the bean counters (and other assorted non-armed, non-sworn employees). Since I can speak knowledgeably about Morristown, there are 2 full-time permanent Parks Police assigned, 12 other employees who work there full-time, and maybe a dozen part-time staff at any given time (not all working at once, but on-the-books doing shift work).

So you keep the two cops on the books, maybe add a third (though I doubt the necessity of it I'll accept the devil's advocate position that it's necessary) and lay off the other 23 employees.

Seems like a "win" to me if your source of funding is cut off and you need to pinch pennies.

Maybe you're correct about there needing to be more guards when it comes to some parks.

I don't really know.

The two that I have personal knowledge/experience of/with it certainly isn't the case, and as I've illustrated, even if they need to add a few more guards or pay their existing guard force some overtime they're still cutting out the great many salaries of the lion's share of the staff that have nothing to do with safety/security.

Look, I don't necessarily agree with what the Tea Party is doing in the House to cause this shutdown, but I think it's a legitimate and perfectly legal (though perhaps unconventional) tactic. I don't fault them for it.

But they're the ones responsible for our National Parks being shut down. They cut off the money and people don't work for free.

You can pretend that it's cool to run our National Parks system with a handful of guards and nobody else but I really just consider that to be dishonest turn-around nonsense.

You're the Party of personal responsibility, take responsibility for the fallout that results from your behavior.
 
Last edited:
I know the last shut down cost our taxpayers many billions of dollars.

Right now according to this article the shut down is costing the state of Michigan an estimated 18 million dollars a day...and we just have one small national park.

Government shutdown costing Michigan $18 million per day, budget director says | MLive.com


Here is a link to an article about how the shutdown is hurting your state.

One Nation Under Shutdown: Here's How Congress Is Hurting Your State

So if shutting down the gov cost more money than it saves why are they shutting it down at all?
 
So if shutting down the gov cost more money than it saves why are they shutting it down at all?

Because if congress can't agree to pass a CR then the government is shut down.
 
would you rather they stop paying workers at nuclear power plants or health inspectors for food testing?

I would rather they would stop paying all Congressional and Administration salaries, all travel and perks, and that the salaries, would be gone, not just delayed.

The WH, parks, monuments, et al, could be staffed by volunteers and welfare, unemployment, and food stamp recipients.

I'd give them a few days of my time.
 
So if shutting down the gov cost more money than it saves why are they shutting it down at all?

You'd have to ask the Tea Party that.

Clearly they feel that fighting the ACA is worth the added expense to the taxpayer.
 
Technically yes but wouldn't it make sense to do things like keep the national parks that are money making machines open, parks like Yosemite, Glacier and jellystone?

You realize the money that they make then goes to people who have to count it, deposit it, account for it, and then cut checks. All of those people are also considered 'nonessential', because their positions probably involve more than just this stuff.

The shutdown should be visible.... and closing National Parks seems to be the only thing the conservatives notice... apparently getting nutrition to women and children is just a minor part of the government...
 
So if shutting down the gov cost more money than it saves why are they shutting it down at all?

Most likely because the T's don't care about spending, they want to bankrupt the govt. to "prove" how bad it is. They are big on self-fulfilling prophecies.
 
Hint: landforms don't disappear when the government shuts down. I sear! I can see a national forest and a national park by stepping outside in the daytime. Shockingly, they're still there!

Really? You mean the world doesn't disappear when I close my eyes? What a relief.
 
Most likely because the T's don't care about spending, they want to bankrupt the govt. to "prove" how bad it is. They are big on self-fulfilling prophecies.

Or not.

PRUDEN: The cheap tricks of the game - Washington Times

Park Service ranger in Washington says of the harassment. “We’ve been told to make life as difficult for people as we can. It’s disgusting.”

 
Last edited:
Yep.

politics as usual for being ordered to "make life difficult." These were not barrycaded off during the last shutdown!
 
The House has funded the government - everything except implementing this imposter Obamacare.

The Obamacare being implemented is NOT the ACA that was passed by congress. And that passage was suspect in its methodology.

NEVER has such a controversial piece of legislation been passed without ONE vote from the opposing party. Never has a piece of legislation with the breadth and scope of the ACA as passed (disregarding the non-constitutional changes made to it since its passage) been passed by relying on outright bribery of its own constituents. Never has such a significant piece of legislation been passed by using legislative trickery and middle of the night sneakery.

Aside from that abortion of ACA called Obamacare - the House is FULLY FUNDING the government. AND they are willing to COMPROMISE even in the defunding of Obamacare, merely delaying it for a year.

it is the POTUS who is shutting down the government. He and he alone is making the decision to 'shut it down.' And not only is he 'shutting it down' he is demanding that the effects be a injurious as possible to regular citizens.

he is doing this because he knows that his biggest ally - the national broadcast media - has his back and will do his bidding, delivering the fallacious misinformation that needs to be made to mislead the ignorant public.

Anyone who does not see the maliciousness on display from the white house on this one is either one of the ignorant 'useful idiots' or is a member of the colluding cabal directing this pathetic agenda.
 
I know the last shut down cost our taxpayers many billions of dollars.

Right now according to this article the shut down is costing the state of Michigan an estimated 18 million dollars a day...and we just have one small national park.

Government shutdown costing Michigan $18 million per day, budget director says | MLive.com


Here is a link to an article about how the shutdown is hurting your state.

One Nation Under Shutdown: Here's How Congress Is Hurting Your State

HAHAHA, Detroit is bankrupt, and michigan is sinking under 30+ years of liberal agendas. Barrack HUSSEIN Obama has doubled the national debt in 4 years, and all that ya'll can talk about is how bad the republicans are for saying NO MORE? This must be laugh at a LIBTARD thursday or something
 
Back
Top Bottom