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Why can't we have online voting?

AtlantaAdonis

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You can do just about anything online today. So why can't we vote? It's simple...we have to major parties, and one of them wants as many people as possible to vote, and the other only wants right wingers who have no lives and have time to go down to the precinct and stand in line to vote. We could have record turnouts if people could vote from the comfort of their own home without having to worry about voter suppression, but as you well know anything that makes voting easy a certain political party will oppose. They also know more online voters will mean more minority, single mom, and young hip voters and they can't have that.
 
Why Can't Americans Vote Online? CNN

Priit Vinkel, an adviser to Estonia's National Electoral Committee, said security is of the utmost concern.
"Internet voting relies basically on a single factor: trust," Vinkel said. "Building and stabilizing this trust is the most important but also the most difficult task of the state."
In Estonia, that security includes a national ID card that can be used remotely and a voting system built to recognize unusual activity, Vrinkel said. He said security officials have detected no serious attempts to tamper with the votes.
But, in Rubin's mind, that's not enough.
He says the Internet's known security risks alone could be enough to call an election's results into question.
"In any election, it's important that the public perceive that the election is held fairly," Rubin said. "If you allow online voting and you're unable to detect any fraud, but it turns out later that many computers were compromised ... there's no way to audit or backtrack or recount or do anything to figure out what actually happened.
"The real question is whether you're interested in providing more questions about the outcome of an election or less."
Weber, who writes his blog from New York, acknowledges the difficulties but says they shouldn't be enough to stop progress on Internet voting -- which he and others believe will increase participation, particularly among younger voters.
"If there are concerns about any of this, the answer is to further work on those concerns, not declare that the Internet is entirely dangerous and will always be entirely dangerous, and you can never trust it," he said.
He notes that trillions of dollars have been moved around via online banking and that functions as sensitive as air-traffic control take place on the Internet.
He also said that for critics to hold up the current U.S. voting system as a model of safety is laughable.
"Machines, memory cards, even things on paper" can be manipulated, he said. "How many times in our history have we found a box of ballots in someone's garage a couple of weeks after an election?"

Seems to me we'd have a replay of 2000 every four years. As our politics become more and more combative, it's easy for the losing party to file complaints regarding the integrity of online votes, regardless of whether or not those concerns are valid. It might become a political tool for the loser to wield against the winner.
 
Surely things will head that way over time. If I can bank, and do my taxes, and pay all my bills online, I see no reason why I can't vote online.

It might take some retina recognition, or perhaps a fingerprint scan kind of thing to verify who is actually voting, but I don't see how that's impossible anymore.

If people can mail in their votes, I see no reason why people can't log in their votes.
 
I'll support it just as soon as somebody can guarantee that it is 100% hack-proof. And that I can be sure that what I submit as a vote is what is recorded. We are talking millions and millions of votes, not a few thousand transactions of another type.
 
The potential for abuse is extremely high as well as the potential to hack the system. Personally, I think we should always stick with voting booths at voting places.
 
The potential for abuse is extremely high as well as the potential to hack the system. Personally, I think we should always stick with voting booths at voting places.

Banks handle literally trillions of dollars electronically. There's potential for abuse, but nobody argues in favor of dumping electronic banking.
 
You can do just about anything online today. So why can't we vote? It's simple...we have to major parties, and one of them wants as many people as possible to vote, and the other only wants right wingers who have no lives and have time to go down to the precinct and stand in line to vote. We could have record turnouts if people could vote from the comfort of their own home without having to worry about voter suppression, but as you well know anything that makes voting easy a certain political party will oppose. They also know more online voters will mean more minority, single mom, and young hip voters and they can't have that.

Absolute recipe for disaster. Am personally a proponent of nothing short of a paper ballot.



(Validation of results and recounts are a real pain in the ass when all you have is a bunch of electrons and magnetized ion thingys....)
 
Absolute recipe for disaster. Am personally a proponent of nothing short of a paper ballot.



(Validation of results and recounts are a real pain in the ass when all you have is a bunch of electrons and magnetized ion thingys....)

Your bank seems to disagree.
 
Your bank seems to disagree.

Pretty sure banks lose millions per year through electronic fraud (they absorb it as a business expense).

Not sure that is the best comeback you want to go with....
 
Banks handle literally trillions of dollars electronically. There's potential for abuse, but nobody argues in favor of dumping electronic banking.

If I can shop and bank online, why can

"… The pattern of motivation for fraud is profoundly different between the commercial and electoral worlds. In an ecommerce situation al transactions are essentially independent. A buyer has no particular incentive to spoil or tamper with another buyer’s online purchase since two buyers rarely have conflicting interests. In any case the problem would almost certainly be detected and corrected. And it is hard to imagine a motive for another nation to bother messing with many Americans’ ecommerce transactions. But the situation is completely different with voting transactions. There is a powerful partisan incentive to block or change other people’s votes, especially if it can be done without detection, and the motivation to automate that process to affect thousands of online votes is that much greater. Such attacks can be done for tens of thousands of dollars or less, while the value of changing the outcome of an election can be hundreds of millions of dollars. And with Internet voting the danger is actually much worse, because not just domestic voters, but anyone, including particularly foreign governments, could derive great benefit from tampering with with U.S. elections, especially since it is unlikely they will be caught or brought to justice. Online voting is thus a national security risk in a way that ecommerce simply is not."
 
From a technology perspective, you can making internet voting that is extremely secure and auditable while maintaining the secret ballot. Contrary to hollywood BS, there are many more holes in our current paper system than the best electronic security. The real question is whether we could actually rely on our government contracting procedures to actually build a decent system, especially given the Diebold fiasco. Paper ballots may not be as effective, but its much harder to screw up the implementation.
 
Banks handle literally trillions of dollars electronically. There's potential for abuse, but nobody argues in favor of dumping electronic banking.
Online fraud occurs daily. If they have some way to preserve security and ensure people vote once, sure. Im sure people are working on acceptable methods. I dont think we are anywhere close to it.

Has the concern over voting machine fraud been resolved?
 
Pretty sure banks lose millions per year through electronic fraud (they absorb it as a business expense).

Not sure that is the best comeback you want to go with....

Also banking is different in which it is relatively easy to track fraud, the money comes out from somewhere and its all recorded, and somebody is going to notice if not the machine.
 
You obviously don't work in the field of Information Technology, do you?

We have to consider where online voting begins, and it begins on each voters personal electronic devices. The vast majority of those devices use "anti-virus" software packages for security. Every major anti-virus package uses "default permit" and "Enumerating Badness" techniques - #1 and #2 of Marcus Ranum's "Six Dumbest Ideas in Computer Security" - to protect those devices (if they have anything at all). If you believe our computers and electronic devices are secure enough to protect our vote, you are delusional!


The United States and Israel created the Stuxnet worm to attack Iran's uranium-enrichment facility two years ago. What makes you think China or other nations couldn't attack our online voting systems without being discovered until it was too late?


The United States government attempted a project called the Federal Voting Assistance Program (FVAP), as the Secure Electronic Registration and Voting Experiment (SERVE). In their final report, they said "the real barrier to success is not a lack of vision, skill, resources, or dedication; it is the fact that, given the current Internet and PC security technology, and the goal of a secure, all-electronic remote voting system, the FVAP has taken on an essentially impossible task. There really is no good way to build such a voting system without a radical change in overall architecture of the Internet and the PC, or some unforeseen security breakthrough. The SERVE project is thus too far ahead of its time, and should not be reconsidered until there is a much improved security infrastructure to build upon."

In 2001, Bruce Schneier said "Building a secure Internet-based voting system is a very hard problem, harder than all the other computer security problems we've attempted and failed at. I believe that the risks to democracy are too great to attempt it." In March of 2012, students were invited to hack into a system set up by the Board of Elections and Ethics weeks before it was to be deployed for the use of overseas absentee voters. Results: "Our experience with the D.C. pilot system demonstrates one of the key dangers in many Internet voting designs: one small mistake in the configuration or implementation of the central voting servers or their surrounding network infrastructure can easily undermine the legitimacy of the entire election." On the hack, Bruce Schneier reminded us that: "If a bunch of students can break into a system after a couple of weeks of attempts, we know it's insecure. But just because a system withstands a test like this doesn't mean it's secure."

Also last March, the National Democratic Party (Canadian, not the US) had a vote. The vote was disrupted. Machines crashed. Voting was slowed. Results delayed. They still don't know who was responsible.

We can't keep electronic voting machines located inside polling places secured from being hacked remotely - what makes you think online voting would be better? As Bruce says, "Computer security is hard."
 
You can do just about anything online today. So why can't we vote? It's simple...we have to major parties, and one of them wants as many people as possible to vote, and the other only wants right wingers who have no lives and have time to go down to the precinct and stand in line to vote. We could have record turnouts if people could vote from the comfort of their own home without having to worry about voter suppression, but as you well know anything that makes voting easy a certain political party will oppose. They also know more online voters will mean more minority, single mom, and young hip voters and they can't have that.

Careful there. I believe you sound a little jaded, based on your second sentence. Interesting.

I would think our voting system is nowhere near secure enough to allow an accurate count via online voting. There are way too many security issues with the system that is in place now. Voter/voting fraud is a huge concern. I don't see strictly online voting being an option for quite awhile.
 
If people are unwilling to go to the booth or get an absentee ballot then that's there problem. Why not make everything we do online and just eliminate having to leave our house in general?
 
One word

Annonymous
 
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