• Please keep all posts on the Rittenhouse verdict here: Rittenhouse Verdict. Note the moderator warnings in the thread. The thread will be heavily moderated with a zero tolerance policy for any baiting, flaming, trolling or other rule breaks. Stick to the topic and not the other posters. Thank you.
  • This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Why can't I bear these arms?

CivicED

Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
166
Reaction score
43
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Care to explain which the 2nd does not give the right AND WHY. I bet you cannot.

Well you taught me about the national firearms act. Now can you teach me about the ATF? Because I don't understand how that bureaucracy is where the law is I think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Crimefree

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,476
Reaction score
2,606
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Well you taught me about the national firearms act. Now can you teach me about the ATF? Because I don't understand how that bureaucracy is where the law is I think.

You must be the first gun control advocate that has learnt anything. Congratulations.

WTF is a "law" and why do you think it succedes the constitution and the rights holders who allow government to govern by their consent which maybe withdrawn at any time?

This piece of crap law should be a warning to every firearm owner on what can be done with propaganda and is being done right now. More and more foolish citizens in particular firearm owners are demanding do nothing laws like background checks and registration. The idea that these laws can be removed later is like committing suicide and hoping to be revived.
 

eohrnberger

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
48,380
Reaction score
31,354
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Top 10 Most Powerful Guns in the World

Why doesn't the second amendment give me the right to bear these firearms in America?

Actually, I think you can legally own all of these weapons, even if they are fully automatic, if you have the correct tax stamp which entitles you to own it.
These tax stamps are very difficult and expensive to obtain from the government, and I believe there's a limited supply every year. So, well regulated, I think you'd call it.

I beg to differ about the AR-15, though, I don't think anything special is required to own this weapon.
 

Harshaw

Filmmaker ● Lawyer ● Patriot
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
38,750
Reaction score
13,832
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Top 10 Most Powerful Guns in the World

Why doesn't the second amendment give me the right to bear these firearms in America?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tennessee Law Review, spring 1995 issue. Read it in its entirety. It answers every question you asked, and it's all in plain language, so you don't have to be a lawyer to understand it.

If you actually want to know the answers, you will read it.

If you don't read it, you don't really want to know.

So are you a troll, or do you actually want to learn? We'll see.
 

Lutherf

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 16, 2012
Messages
41,661
Reaction score
48,100
Location
Tucson, AZ
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Actually, I think you can legally own all of these weapons, even if they are fully automatic, if you have the correct tax stamp which entitles you to own it.
These tax stamps are very difficult and expensive to obtain from the government, and I believe there's a limited supply every year. So, well regulated, I think you'd call it.

I beg to differ about the AR-15, though, I don't think anything special is required to own this weapon.


Not exactly.

While it's not illegal to own fully automatic weapons (requires local approval on top of ATF approval) the weapon must be manufactured before 1986. That eliminates a few of the guns on the OP's list.
 

Crimefree

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,476
Reaction score
2,606
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Are you stupid?

You can "keep and bear" any of these guns as long as you're rich enough to afford the huge costs involved.

Which clearly says the law is unconstitutional and should be repealed.
 

Crimefree

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,476
Reaction score
2,606
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Not exactly.

While it's not illegal to own fully automatic weapons (requires local approval on top of ATF approval) the weapon must be manufactured before 1986. That eliminates a few of the guns on the OP's list.

Not for any sound logical or constitutional reason.
 

Vox

Voice and Wisdom of God
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 13, 2016
Messages
6,765
Reaction score
954
Location
Land of Logic
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Yes, we should be able to own some fairly heavy weapons if history is our guide.

Read Zinn's People's History of the U.S. to learn about militias.

Early citizen militias did sometimes have artillery and sometimes faced off in confrontations with government troops who were protecting wealthy jackasses who were exploiting and oppressing common people.
 

Tigerace117

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
42,805
Reaction score
11,436
Location
Chicago
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Yes, we should be able to own some fairly heavy weapons if history is our guide.

Read Zinn's People's History of the U.S. to learn about militias.

Early citizen militias did sometimes have artillery and sometimes faced off in confrontations with government troops who were protecting wealthy jackasses who were exploiting and oppressing common people.

On the other hand, when it came to actually fighting enemies of the United States, the civilian militias were next to worthless.
 

CivicED

Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
166
Reaction score
43
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Not exactly.

While it's not illegal to own fully automatic weapons (requires local approval on top of ATF approval) the weapon must be manufactured before 1986. That eliminates a few of the guns on the OP's list.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Means I should be able to own thease! Who the **** made the atf and gave them the power to say I can't own thease? And what law says I can't own automatic weapons?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Crimefree

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,476
Reaction score
2,606
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Yes, we should be able to own some fairly heavy weapons if history is our guide.

Read Zinn's People's History of the U.S. to learn about militias.

Early citizen militias did sometimes have artillery and sometimes faced off in confrontations with government troops who were protecting wealthy jackasses who were exploiting and oppressing common people.

That ordinance would have been stored by the militia and would not have been personal arms. Government supplied the militia so it could preform its task.

Can you imagine the pants soiling of politicians and gun control if that were true today.
 

Harshaw

Filmmaker ● Lawyer ● Patriot
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
38,750
Reaction score
13,832
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Means I should be able to own thease! Who the **** made the atf and gave them the power to say I can't own thease? And what law says I can't own automatic weapons?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I just told you how to find out, dude. I guess you don't actually want to know. Troll, it is.
 

Black Dog

King Of The Dog Pound
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
36,234
Reaction score
8,373
Location
Georgia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Top 10 Most Powerful Guns in the World

Why doesn't the second amendment give me the right to bear these firearms in America?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You can own any of those legally in semi-auto versions in most states. You can also (If you have the money) own the full auto version in most states.

The 2nd gives you the right to bare any of those. Some states however limit access like CA, NY, IL and a few others.
 
Last edited:

Crimefree

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,476
Reaction score
2,606
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Means I should be able to own thease! Who the **** made the atf and gave them the power to say I can't own thease? And what law says I can't own automatic weapons?

state is not capitalised as the first transcript was corrected by Jefferson deliberately. It is state

Government made the laws and the ATF with the consent of the duped by propaganda people at the time. That consent may be withdrawn at any time.
 

Vox

Voice and Wisdom of God
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 13, 2016
Messages
6,765
Reaction score
954
Location
Land of Logic
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
That ordinance would have been stored by the militia and would not have been personal arms. Government supplied the militia so it could preform its task.

Can you imagine the pants soiling of politicians and gun control if that were true today.

I think the cannon were owned by prominent members of the militia, but I don't recall seeing any details on that. Maybe somebody else here has a reference for that info.
 

Vox

Voice and Wisdom of God
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 13, 2016
Messages
6,765
Reaction score
954
Location
Land of Logic
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
On the other hand, when it came to actually fighting enemies of the United States, the civilian militias were next to worthless.

Don't forget that it was citizens who kicked out the British.
 

Tigerace117

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
42,805
Reaction score
11,436
Location
Chicago
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Don't forget that it was citizens who kicked out the British.

Don't forget they actually had to be organized and trained into an actual army before that happened. The British were not chased off by amatuers in the end.
 

Winchester

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
6,665
Reaction score
6,277
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
On the other hand, when it came to actually fighting enemies of the United States, the civilian militias were next to worthless.

When was the last time they invaded the mainland and how did that turn out?
 

Winchester

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
6,665
Reaction score
6,277
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Don't forget they actually had to be organized and trained into an actual army before that happened. The British were not chased off by amatuers in the end.

And how much easier it was being they were already armed.
 

Tigerace117

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
42,805
Reaction score
11,436
Location
Chicago
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
When was the last time they invaded the mainland and how did that turn out?

Who, the enemies of the US?

In 1812 they burnt Washington to the ground.

In the Civil War they were there the whole time

In World War One German spies had a fun time blowing stuff up on the docks of New York
 

Tigerace117

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
42,805
Reaction score
11,436
Location
Chicago
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
And how much easier it was being they were already armed.

Yeah..... Being armed wasn't really relevant at that point. Anybody can aim a firearm. Without the training, organization and leadership of the Continental Army's leadership they were still relatively useless, at least when it came to open battle
 
Top Bottom